Maybe since the dawn of recording, bands and artists have been regarded in opposing pairs. Sometimes those artists are colleagues (Charlie Parker, Dizzy), and sometimes they're rivals (Clash, Pistols). Sometimes it appears to be a media or critical creation, and other times these impressions seem to crop up in the public imagination.
Terms that may or may not apply to these opposing pairs are: good / bad ascetic / hedonistic righteous / immoral
Here's a list of groups that I'm thinking of. What are some others? Do you ever think of musicians in these terms?
Louis Armstrong / Sidney Bechet The Beatles / The Rolling Stones The Clash / Sex Pistols John Coltrane / Miles Davis Fugazi / Nirvana (this was much more in focus in the 1990s) Dizzy Gillespie / Charlie Parker MC5 / The Stooges Minor Threat / Black Flag Public Enemy / N.W.A.
― Usual Channels, Thursday, 15 May 2008 13:51 (eighteen years ago)
Mondays/Roses
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 15 May 2008 13:54 (eighteen years ago)
Marley/Tosh
― Granny Dainger, Thursday, 15 May 2008 13:55 (eighteen years ago)
V/Vm
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 15 May 2008 13:55 (eighteen years ago)
I think you mean Roses / Mondays.
― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 15 May 2008 13:58 (eighteen years ago)
In my mind I always had Orbital / Prodigy but I'm not sure anyone else did.
My placement was very specific.
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:01 (eighteen years ago)
Blur / Oasis.
― mike t-diva, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:02 (eighteen years ago)
Stone Roses / Mondays v. Mondays / Stone Roses... That's very interesting...
― Usual Channels, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:03 (eighteen years ago)
cube/eazy
― and what, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:03 (eighteen years ago)
do rap beefs count? Fiddy / Kanye G-Unit / Ja Rule? Biggie / 2Pac
all of these are o_O in that anyone who likes songs by one and not the other is o_O to me
― blueski, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:04 (eighteen years ago)
Take That / East 17
― mike t-diva, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:05 (eighteen years ago)
i suppose it was really just 'which do you prefer' not 'which of the two do you love/hate' tho they often seemed presented as the latter
― blueski, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:05 (eighteen years ago)
And for a while at least: Britney / Xtina.
― mike t-diva, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:06 (eighteen years ago)
Public Enemy / N.W.A.
Or even Chuck D / Flavor Flav, but then you're onto a whole different "good/bad oppositions within bands" list...
― mike t-diva, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:08 (eighteen years ago)
Fiddy / Kanye all of these are o_O in that anyone who likes songs by one and not the other is o_O to me
Seriously? Cos,like, Kanye's fine by me, but Fiddy, no way.
― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:10 (eighteen years ago)
In Da Club > most Kanye
Gary Barlow / Robbie Williams Sophie Ellis-Bextor / Victoria Beckham (if just for one week only)
― blueski, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:11 (eighteen years ago)
autechre/aphex twin
― ledge, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:14 (eighteen years ago)
Pet Shop Boys / Erasure
― Matt DC, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:15 (eighteen years ago)
A lot of the time this is the case of one band being overshadowed/prowling in the other's slipstream cf Nirvana / Pearl Jam.
are yall even paying attention to the good/bad placement here
― and what, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:16 (eighteen years ago)
are you callin me lazy (he said, typing from bed at 3 in the afternoon)
― ledge, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:18 (eighteen years ago)
I hate In Da Club.
― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:19 (eighteen years ago)
Is it clear that by "good" / "bad" I mean something closer to "nice" / "naughty," rather than love/hate or anything about preference?
― Usual Channels, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:21 (eighteen years ago)
Ellington/Mingus
― Granny Dainger, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:22 (eighteen years ago)
Speakerboxxx/TheLoveBelow
― Mark G, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:25 (eighteen years ago)
Nirvana/Guns n Roses
― dad a, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:41 (eighteen years ago)
The Cure / Siouxsie and the Banshees
― stephen, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:46 (eighteen years ago)
Don Estelle / Windsor Davies
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:49 (eighteen years ago)
Donny Osmond / David Cassidy
― mike t-diva, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:57 (eighteen years ago)
George Michael / Andrew Ridgeley
― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 15 May 2008 14:59 (eighteen years ago)
Metallica/Slayer
― Oilyrags, Thursday, 15 May 2008 17:30 (eighteen years ago)
Minutemen/Husker Du
― Oilyrags, Thursday, 15 May 2008 17:31 (eighteen years ago)
50/kanye pac/biggie used to be nas/jay-z but everyone is on jay's jock now
― max, Thursday, 15 May 2008 17:36 (eighteen years ago)
there needs to be a thread on the "pac = nice" phenomenon, still dont quite get the 2pac-is-the-new-huey-newton thing
― max, Thursday, 15 May 2008 17:37 (eighteen years ago)
NKOTB/New Edition
― jaymc, Thursday, 15 May 2008 17:39 (eighteen years ago)
Or maybe NKOTB/Color Me Badd
Spacemen 3/Loop
― henry s, Thursday, 15 May 2008 17:50 (eighteen years ago)
Everyone, please - re-read the question.
― Mark Rich@rdson, Thursday, 15 May 2008 17:55 (eighteen years ago)
Thanks Mark!
Maybe Spacemen 3:
J Spaceman's side of "Recurring" / Sonic Boom's side of "Recurring"
― Usual Channels, Thursday, 15 May 2008 17:57 (eighteen years ago)
Oasis/Blur
― mark e, Thursday, 15 May 2008 17:59 (eighteen years ago)
REM/Replacements
Dandys/BJM
matchbox twenty/Third Eye Blind
― Mark Rich@rdson, Thursday, 15 May 2008 18:01 (eighteen years ago)
Wouldn't Oasis fall on the hedonistic/immoral side of it?
― Mark Rich@rdson, Thursday, 15 May 2008 18:02 (eighteen years ago)
Wolves in the Throne Room / Xasthur
― rockapads, Thursday, 15 May 2008 18:26 (eighteen years ago)
Napalm Death / Morbid Angel
― rockapads, Thursday, 15 May 2008 18:28 (eighteen years ago)
I would almost say Run DMC/Beastie Boys - at least in the mid 80s.
― rockapads, Thursday, 15 May 2008 18:33 (eighteen years ago)
I don't know if I buy that MC5/Stooges "good/bad, etc." binary. From what I've heard and read, it would be more like "bad/bad." I would consider them more complements than opposites.
― Binjominia, Thursday, 15 May 2008 18:37 (eighteen years ago)
I see where you're coming from in terms of hedonism, but in terms of "message," I definitely see the MC5 s having one of uplift and the Stooges getting across something darker.
― Usual Channels, Thursday, 15 May 2008 18:48 (eighteen years ago)
(MC5 as)
― Usual Channels, Thursday, 15 May 2008 18:49 (eighteen years ago)
husker du/replacements
― gff, Thursday, 15 May 2008 18:50 (eighteen years ago)
geoff barrow/mark ronson
― mark e, Thursday, 15 May 2008 20:28 (eighteen years ago)
zeppelin / sabbath
― m0stlyClean, Thursday, 15 May 2008 20:28 (eighteen years ago)
Wouldn't Oasis (vs. Bluh) fall on the hedonistic/immoral side of it?
Small Faces/Faces Guthrie/Dylan Folk Dylan/Rock Dylan Sonic Youth/Pussy Galore
― contenderizer, Thursday, 15 May 2008 20:40 (eighteen years ago)
joan baez/bob dylan
― gff, Thursday, 15 May 2008 20:42 (eighteen years ago)
I mean, it's good to throw the troo/false dichotomy in here, too. Not just apollonian/dionysian.
― contenderizer, Thursday, 15 May 2008 20:46 (eighteen years ago)
David Bowie/Alice Cooper
― Geir Hongro, Friday, 16 May 2008 10:28 (eighteen years ago)
And Mayhem/Burzum maybe? :)
― Geir Hongro, Friday, 16 May 2008 10:30 (eighteen years ago)
Massive Attack / Tricky?
― Usual Channels, Friday, 16 May 2008 11:41 (eighteen years ago)
Re: Guthrie/Dylan
I'm not sure generational successors works.
Maybe Ochs / Dylan?
― Usual Channels, Friday, 16 May 2008 11:42 (eighteen years ago)
Levi-straussian structuralism on ilm! I think the Beatles/Stones one is kind of the model, isn't it. Although the jazz ones predate it, did people think in those terms?
― Jamie T Smith, Friday, 16 May 2008 13:19 (eighteen years ago)
That's a good question!
The Armstrong/Bechet one might be a Wynton construction from that stupid "Jazz" documentary, no?
I could easily see the Coltrane/Davis one appearing in retrospect from rock-type jazz fans.
Why does the Gillespie/Parker one seem so right to me? Like it existed back then? Maybe because I get the impression that the two acted as foils for each other onstage--Dizzy the clown and Bird the tortured, intellectual artist.
It does seem like primarily a rock thing. Is there a case in early rock? I was trying to think of a counterpart for Elvis, but I didn't want to go the familiar "pop heart-throb/Elvis" route...
― Usual Channels, Friday, 16 May 2008 13:35 (eighteen years ago)
Taking Sides: Mayhem v. Burzum
― latebloomer, Friday, 16 May 2008 13:37 (eighteen years ago)
-- Noodle Vague, Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:55 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link
massive lol
― electricsound, Friday, 16 May 2008 13:40 (eighteen years ago)
(xpost while I was looking up Culture and Communication b Edmund Leach -although if we were being structuralist about it, we would be doing this the other way round, reading off the oppositions from the bands.)
As in many of the examples here, the only way the Beatles could be considered "good" in their own era IS in opposition to the Stones. The only way East 17 could be seen as "bad" is in opposition to Take That. I'm not sure why that is interesting.
― Jamie T Smith, Friday, 16 May 2008 13:45 (eighteen years ago)
liam watson / nigel godrich
― electricsound, Friday, 16 May 2008 13:49 (eighteen years ago)
Ian MacKaye/Henry Rollins JB's/Funkadelic Motown/Stax Donovan/Dylan
― fritz, Friday, 16 May 2008 14:31 (eighteen years ago)
zappa/beefheart
― Euler, Friday, 16 May 2008 14:33 (eighteen years ago)
I was trying to think of a counterpart for Elvis, but I didn't want to go the familiar "pop heart-throb/Elvis" route...
Elvis/Jerry Lee
― fritz, Friday, 16 May 2008 16:12 (eighteen years ago)
That's it.
Your others above: OTM.
― Usual Channels, Friday, 16 May 2008 16:16 (eighteen years ago)
different, but kinda related old discussion here: "The Guns 'N' Roses it's OK to like"
― fritz, Friday, 16 May 2008 16:47 (eighteen years ago)
1992: Nine Inch Nails/Ministry
1995: Nine Inch Nails/Marilyn Manson
― Pillbox, Friday, 16 May 2008 21:07 (eighteen years ago)
Bill Haley/Elvis Presley
― Geir Hongro, Friday, 16 May 2008 21:43 (eighteen years ago)
Alan Lomax/Harry Smith
― dad a, Friday, 16 May 2008 22:03 (eighteen years ago)
Good one.
― James Redd and the Blecchs, Friday, 16 May 2008 22:26 (eighteen years ago)
thought it was the other way around, but
― sexyDancer, Friday, 16 May 2008 22:32 (eighteen years ago)
Whoever was the closest to a "bad" equivalent of Pat Boone?
― Geir Hongro, Friday, 16 May 2008 22:56 (eighteen years ago)
Noel Gallagher/Liam Gallagher
― Geir Hongro, Saturday, 17 May 2008 09:28 (eighteen years ago)