T/S : Early vs. Late Depeche Mode

Well you'll just have to decide which great is greater. Anyway, I don't belive you. The only stuff I've heard from late DM is tuneless, meandering whining over tired downtempo beats! (Maybe these were the remixes.)

To hell with that. And Phil, you had best believe my love , at least. ;-)

Wait, you're taking the DM era which was known for its monotone/static melodies ("Never Let Me Down Again", "Little 15", "To Have And To Hold", "A Question Of Time", "Stripped", "Something To Do", "Everything Counts", "Pleasure Little Treasure", "Behind The Wheel", "Fly On The Windscreen") and saying that, in comparison, latter-era DM is TUNELESS??? You must listen to the following songs post- haste:

Halo
Home
Useless
Dream On
Higher Love
Judas
The Love Thieves
Shine
It's No Good
Freelove
I Am You
One Caress
Mercy In You
Dangerous
Happiest Girl

If anything, Martin Gore's songwriting skills have grown stronger as time has gone on, not weaker.

I haven't really enjoyed them post-'Violator', so there's where my vote lies.

I was DM's biggest fan in the 80s. But by the early 90's, it's precisely the Nirvana and NiN influences that seem to have screwed them up. In the 80's there's strong sense that DM are *inventing* this stuff as they're going along. They're pioneering the mix of populist synth-pop, sado-masochistic sexuality, industrial experimentalism. No one else has done this before! DM are revolutionaries.

By the 90's, there's a flirtation with stadium rock. So it's probably fun to *be* a stadium rock band. But who cares? If I wanted stadium rock with a few synth sounds I could listen to U2! The new generation of techno acts, who drew on the 80s DM are pushing these sounds into new more interesting territories.

In contrast DM sound *tired*. I mean genuinely weary. Increasing use of sampled guitar loops and rock tropes instead of inventing new sounds. Bolt on dance rhythms that sound like they come from a catalogue. A live drummer? And Gore is in a thematic rut. How many more songs do I want to hear about his sex and guilt life?

Maybe I'm looking for something else in the 90s. I've stopped listening to songs - in favour of vocals as a wash for jungle, techno and rave. (And eventually garage) I listen to a lot of hip-hop. I hear so much interesting electronic experament. I dance to thrilling new rhythms. And DM just don't seem to have engaged with that world.

Dan and I are in many ways lifers when it comes to bands (thus our continual need for new Cure and Prince albums, for instance), regardless of whether or not something is the lightning in a bottle/spirit of the age type thing. Everyone dumped on us for liking Bloodflowers, but we care not. ;-) And as you saw, Dan sees modern Depeche as a flowering of particular strain of Gore's songwriting style, whereas you see it as a compromise, though arguably maybe this is a core song-vs.-trappings interpretation? No right or wrong answers here, just thinking out loud. :-)

Oh, but it's so easy. Right now I'm listening to "Shine" and it's just fucking turgid. Did DM just get *slower*? Did you ever hear that really dismal, droney mix of Black Celebration without beats? That just sounds so more thrilling than this.

And why do late DM just fucking *complain* so much ... "you're hung on a rope of mediocrity, la la la you're insecurity, I need someone to shine for me"

Gore used to be perverse and daring and demanding. But there used to be a sense that he and his lovers were partners in something exciting. "Somebody" is a thrilling agenda for a relationship. "Master & Servant", "I Want You, Now". On Black Celebration the songs were about stuff, sometimes even political stuff like "New Dress".

Every nu-DM song I hear is just about Gore's tiredness and disappointment with some generic "you". His demmands sound like a nagging wife 30 years into a marriage!

OK ... delicate, but not exactly ... but still fit's my characterization of nu-DM as somehow "weary".

OTOH I think I just found a song off Exciter I *will* burn to CD and listen to again : Freelove. Got a bit of choon to it, that one! In fact someone should do a speed-garage cover.

I prefer Depeche Mode post-"A Broken Frame", pre-"Music For The Masses". I guess that is kind of a mid period, and also the period their most lojal and "fanatic" fans (particularly in Europe) are most of all into.

Btw. was there really guitar on "Love In Itself"? Sure there are a lot of guitars on the (interesting) acoustic version on the 12 inch single but otherwise?

It must be added, though, that "Love Is Blindness" is essensially U2 doing Depeche Mode, so was both ways.