The Death of the Record Collection

^^^^^^
Exactly. I don't see Spotify lasting more than another 18 months. They'll give it a go in the States, the RIAA will smack them down hard, then the British equivalent will be "hey, maybe we need to shut this down too".

my initial thought is that "having a record collection" as a concept was really only ever intended for enthusiasts in the first place, and was more of an inconvenient necessity for millions of other people who enjoy music but don't value physical recordings, don't dig deep into catalogs, don't eagerly seek out new stuff, and don't need trivia, history, or metadata for the stuff they enjoy.

otm imo

Of course I may be talking out of my ass on the last part, for all I know the BPI (or whatever) has already blessed Spotify. I just don't see it happening for the U.S. ever.

here's my question: where are the CDs, vinyl, etc. gonna go? seems like most people who are getting rid of their collections sell them to stores or put them on eBay, etc. and when stores go out of business, people inevitably buy up their overstock at a discount (or get them for free), even if they ultimately resell them again. at what point are people going to start throwing away their physical music for "record collections" to no longer exist? even if every label in the world went digital tomorrow and stopped manufacturing any physical product, there's billions already floating around that are probably going to keep changing hands for a long time.

http://widnesskips.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/landfill3.jpg

No, they will all be upcycled into cd-chadeliers and melted-vinyl centerpiece bowls.

I have a box full of shit CDs that I can't sell and can't donate. Have no idea what to do with all of them, but I feel horrible just packing them out with the recycling. I seriously doubt its worth eBay or whatever to sell the third Collective Soul album or second 311 album, y'know?

soon "burning some cds" will be understood to involve gasoline and matches, thankfully.

they must be really shit if you can't even donate them!

Certain artists (Hafler Trio, La Monte Young) are really ruthless about preventing illegal downloads, I don't see them compromising with streaming media any time soon.

This whole idea that "all music ever made" will eventually be streamed is really naive imho. Lots of stuff can't even be reissued because of problems with rights or licensing, how will it be streamed?

Well, tbh, haven't tried HARD to donate them. I asked at my local library and they aren't taking any CD donations right now.

I don't think the Celestial Jukebox, which would make available every song ever released, will ever become a reality, but I do think the majority of stuff we all listen to -- especially the majority of stuff already available on CD -- will eventually be released online.

Spotify is supposedly coming to the US later this year. Why wouldn't labels sign on for it? It encourages people to listen to the music they put out legally.

call all destroyer is also OTM about the whole "record collection" only being for enthusiasts thing. I'm interested in those of us who are enthusiasts giving up our collections for streaming media.

never

xxp $$$

Me neither. I like holding stuff.

Spotify is supposedly coming to the US later this year. Why wouldn't labels sign on for it? It encourages people to listen to the music they put out legally.

For the same reason they tried to kill streaming internet radio, because they wanted a disgustingly large share of the money.

i am all for paying artist but the day i pay for a music file or a digital subscription is a cold day in hell

i'm in no hurry to begin culling my collection just yet.
in fact i suspect the dreaded rot will kill my collection before i succumb to the lure of streaming.
as others, i use spotify to check out back catalogue and then decide whether to buy or not.
but linking the computer up to the stereo and dropping the cd format is a way off yet.

An iPod that can receive Pandora. I'd hold that.

megalolz at the idea that capitalism will permit the "death" of commodity fetishization

I never trust people who make the "all music is available on the internet!" argument, because there is still tons of stuff I can't find, just because it never got released on CD or whatever

For the same reason they tried to kill streaming internet radio, because they wanted a disgustingly large share of the money.

Don't you think it's getting to the point where they're going to have to give into shit like Spotify if they don't want to be even more fucked than they already are?

my initial thought is that "having a record collection" as a concept was really only ever intended for enthusiasts in the first place, and was more of an inconvenient necessity for millions of other people who enjoy music but don't value physical recordings, don't dig deep into catalogs, don't eagerly seek out new stuff, and don't need trivia, history, or metadata for the stuff they enjoy.

Very well stated.

I do plan to continue on having a physical "collection" of CDs (never got into vinyl; I'm 24 and it never "clicked" for me, so to speak). That said, I've sold off about 200 CDs in the past 6 months, really thinking about what I actually enjoy and listen to and what prompts repeated listening for my ears and tastes. I'm getting rid of things that, a year ago, would have been unthinkable to sell off. I'm being more selective in what I currently buy, while simultaneously cleaning out the archives a bit. Not sure how far this will go (I still have well over 2,000 CDs and counting) but I'm happy to have cleaned out the bottom 10% of my listening and don't really miss any of it, in retrospect. I liked having it on the shelf for posterity, but it seemed like dead weight now that it's actually out of my possession.

In conclusion - trying to be selective, keeping stuff I really enjoy and letting go of what I don't spin as much. But I see myself continuing forward with the physical artifacts. I have zero interest in digital downloads, illegal or streaming or sanctioned or otherwise.

"Don't you think it's getting to the point where they're going to have to give into shit like Spotify if they don't want to be even more fucked than they already are?"

Nope.

Alex in SF otm - rats going to go down with the ship, etc

On Spotify: "The service has licensing deals with the Big Four record labels (EMI, Warner Music, Sony BMG and Universal) and other smaller players."

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/11/spotify-opens-up-in-the-uk-if-it-can-handle-the-traffic/

spending years slowly building up a record collection through a significant amount of searching and purchasing

actually going to obscure record stores and searching for and buying physical discs

I also really enjoy this part. Much more satisfying than an instantaneous download of something worth looking for. There are many, many records out there that I'm dying to hear, but haven't heard yet because I won't download them and I haven't found them in stores yet. And I'm adamant about keeping it that way - if only for myself. I like mystery and I fucking love the satisfaction of finding something after a few years of hunting and then putting it on for the first time.

Don't you think it's getting to the point where they're going to have to give into shit like Spotify if they don't want to be even more fucked than they already are?

What Alex said above, nope. Never underestimate the RIAA's ability to shoot itself in the foot while sticking to the old business model NO MATTER WHAT.

xxp Yeah that article makes it sound like the wave of the future alright.

They already have licensing deals with the major four record labels.

Did you even read the rest of it?

That's in the UK btw.

Yeah, you're right. I missed that link: http://uk.techcrunch.com/2009/01/29/record-labels-pressure-spotify-to-restrict-service/

The changes are being made because record labels have slapped restrictions on Spotify’s service. The issue is to do with the publishing rights associated with compilatoins. A user in one country might be able to listen to a track on one compilation in their country jurisdiction, but to share that track on a playlist with a user in another country could affect the publishing rights.

Have most movie fans given up their collections for Netflix? I know it's a different service, but they're switching a lot of their stuff over to streaming now too.

My guess is that it's probably a similar situation to what we're seeing here: the everyday consumer never had a collection or at least not a big one and doesn't mind using Netflix, whereas huge film geeks probably buy DVDs/Bluray and use Netflix as a supplementary service the same way some people use emusic.

It's not really comparable though since video was up until the advent of the DVD, basically a rental market. Netflix is filling the rental need, not replacing the sell-through market.

The death of the library, and the death of archiving.. is that what this is essentially suggesting?

You're right, Alex.

billstevejim: Yeah, the death of the personal archive/library.

It's not really comparable though since video was up until the advent of the DVD, basically a rental market. Netflix is filling the rental need, not replacing the sell-through market.

OTM about Netflix. By "up until the advent of the DVD," do you mean that DVDs led to collections via purchase, or because they're easy to pirate without visible loss of quality?

I remember lot of moms buying limited edition disney VHS's a lot, but prolly more for TVbabysitter than collector purposes.

In this case I meant the former. DVDs were intended to be a sell-through market, to make their money off people buying them for personal use as much as from video stores buying them to rent to customers. That's why the price of new release DVDs was so cheap compared to new release VHS tapes ($20 vs. $100+).

Some VHS tapes (Disney stuff, misc children's movies, big budget blockbusters like Jurassic Park, Men In Black) were marketed as sell-through items too btw, but most new release VHS tapes were significantly more than that.

we had a collection of VHS tapes before DVDs were omnipresent.

1. Spotify still sounds like a stream, and I don't see anyone who would invest the time/energy/money into creating a record collection bailing in favor of the chance to play "baby's got back" on a whim

2.

Instead of spending years slowly building up a record collection through a significant amount of searching and purchasing, you could easily have the same records as a seasoned collector in however long it took you to type artist names and record titles into Google or a p2p service and download some .rar files.

When ppl see my CD collection they still say "Holy shit" (lol braggin 2009 tell it to your blog asshole stfu etc). But when people go on msg boards that i lurk at and brag about how many gigs of downloaded music they have, it's just embarrassing for them.

3. "Celestial jukebox" LOOOOOOLLLERPOPS

xp Again I am talking specifically about the price of new release VHS tapes.

Personally, I'm getting frustrated at a lot of labels leaning towards the download/vinyl models since I still love CDs

But when people go on msg boards that i lurk at and brag about how many gigs of downloaded music they have, it's just embarrassing for them.

Is there anyone that's impressed by this assertion? Is it a geek thing? Is it an age thing?

I agree with you there, Whiney. As far as physical formats go, I only buy albums on CD.

There will always be people who enjoy having their own personal references for things they enjoy.

"Record collection" means something different now than it did in the 70's.. in that respect, "record collections" have been dead for years.

setting spotify's sound quality to the highest setting is, i discovered, a good way to nuke your phone's storage because the app is incredibly, staggeringly bad at actually really deleting stuff when you choose "remove download." this has been known for years but they won't fix it, god knows why.

Before the Internet, people like me and 5 others bought that Deconstruction record, listened to it twice, and sold it back.

anatol_merklich at 8:21 8 Mar 20

Spotify I use walking around on headphones or in the car, but the sound quality is a joke esp after I heard Tidal and (now) Qobuz

Not to be all save-a-Spotify, and I won't claim that this entirely equalizes the difference, but I wonder whether people who hold this opinion are aware that there is a setting in the Spotify app for adjusting the sound quality? If I remember correctly, it is not set to the highest setting by default (probably to save data use).

I'm very aware and also when you go through Chromecast via optical to a DAC it automatically goes to the highest quality

it's not even close to Qobuz 24 bit FLAC

that said it's fine for walking around, at work, car etc

just frustrating that Spotify won't offer a $20/mo. hi rez tier, because their catalog, search, discovery, basically everything else is so much better than any other service

Before the Internet, people like me and 5 others bought that Deconstruction record, listened to it twice, and sold it back.

heh I looked for this album on Spotify just the other day (unsuccessfully)

I had/have a challenging opinion that it has aged far better than the jane's LPs

I bought that CD. The only thing i remember is that song about the temple at karnak

ums: fair enough!

I don't own many LPs ( 50 possibly) but perversely I enjoy the limited choice, it means albums get played many times each and I really get to know them. that doesn't happen at all with spotify etc.

^ That's the main reason I still buy physical discs. (Mostly dirt cheap CDs though.) I seem to absorb them more fully in that form.

Also, that Vinyl doc upthread is a little bit fabulous. Thanks NJS.

OK, I finally watched that Alan Zweig documentary upthread ("Vinyl"), and it inspired me to do some pruning on my collection.
My current threshold is to keep stuff only if I rate it a solid 3 stars or higher in my discogs list. We'll see how well I can stick to that.

(full disclosure, the lower rated records aren't actually gone yet, they're just moved down to the basement for now)

aside from its vinyl content, that Zweig doc is a great museum of bygone Canadian hairstyles

i have been meaning to come back to this thread to express my love for the zweig doc. it was just amazing.

I'm watching it now for the first time, what an amazing movie.

It's interesting to think about the timing of the movie too - in 2000, at the nadir for vinyl. It wasn't long before records started to be cool again.

I saw it in a theater in Portland!

love the "NOBODY else has this record" bit where like 5 different people hold it up

My 30 seconds of glory from Vinyl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCAGSnsnkVA

I think Alan is shooting a sequel right now. (Not right now, obviously.) I believe it's supposed to focus more on the records than the collecting.

bygone Canadian hairstyles

Or for me, just bygone hair.

that is a really amazing...everything. i love that clip. that is extremely relatable, too.

phil that was YOU ????

who is the guy with the long hair ? was that your friend ?

That's me, late '90s, in my old apartment. The interview was actually about two hours, I think (some more got used in an alternate version, me talking about my crush on Susan Dey). I ran into Alan at a film a few months ago, and he said he was interested in an another interview for the sequel. But I've moved since then, now this, so I doubt it'll happen).

I'm not sure who that is before me. But let me be indulgent and post a clip of my friend Tim, wondering if owning 65 James Brown albums is unusual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAleFzU9cb8

Yes! I love that clip.

that’s cool, clemenza. I’m kinda of scared to watch this documentary though, I’ve had to get rid of a lot of records in the past few years and lately it’s been making me sad. that Discogs thread too. *single tear*

(xpost) Tim's kind of a hero, beyond just being a friend. He saw the Festival Express show in Toronto in 1970 (but missed Joplin), saw the New York Dolls is a rundown strip club in 1973 (opening for Rush, or vice-versa), regularly comes up with malapropisms like Huey Newton & the News.

Brimstead: I've moved my records five times in my life. First two or three times weren't bad; the fourth time, 17 years ago, harder, and I had a lot of help; the fifth time--getting friends to help now is much harder as they get married and have families--was an ordeal. The guy that sold my house insisted I get them out of there before any showings, so I had to put them into a storage locker for three months, closer to where I was moving (so two hours away from where I was). When I got here, I had to move them into the house myself, about 5 trips in the car, 10 boxes each time. They're still in boxes five months later--just as I was about to finally order shelves, all this happened.

The point is, even after all that, I'm glad I've never had to sell them. Last November would have been the perfect time to do so--their value was as high as it'd been for a long time, and I would've saved considerable cost, effort, and space. Couldn't do it. If you have to do so for financial reasons, that's completely understandable. I have another friend who sold all his, even though I'm pretty sure there wasn't financial pressure to do so, and I get the feeling he regrets it.

Curious as to what happens with vinyl when all this ends. I've never understood all those $35 reissues to begin with--will there still be a market for with all the economic fallout. I expect my own collection will be worth half whatever I would have got in November, if that. But I still have them, and that's good.

"will there still be a market for them with all the economic fallout?"

If you have to do so for financial reasons, that's completely understandable.

yeah, essentially. i never got rid of anything that was super important to me but there's a lot of stuff i wouldn't mind having back.

My 30 seconds of glory from Vinyl:

I'm delighted to learn that the same bearded guy bopping around with grade schoolers to Los Campesinos (as linked the '00s poll results thread) is the same as the guy in the documentary who says how self-conscious he is at parties and how he feels more at home in the record store.

I'm reminded of my much-beloved fifth grade teacher who would later indulge my early morning visits to his classroom to talk about music, after I'd moved to the junior high wing. He loaned me a couple of his records and made a tape or two for me (he tried to convert me to classical with Schubert's Death and the Maiden—that took a few years to click!). Then when I was a freshman in high school (1993/94), he was killed in a car accident, 40 years old. I was invited to go to his estate sale and pick whatever records I wanted, at a dollar apiece. I felt a combination of giddiness and guilt you might expect. Still have some of the 35 or so records I took home that day, including the copy of From Genesis to Revelation that he had loaned me. I always wondered what his life had been like outside the classroom.

I've wanted to see more of Zweig's documentaries (Curmudgeon, especially), but they seem hard to come by.

That’s a really sweet story, Jesse

That's a sad story...having the records is a great way to remember him.

Seems odd, I know. I was able to get rid of some of the introversion via teaching, but just in general, I have a much easier time cutting loose and behaving like an idiot around kids than around adults.

Alan has done quite well since Vinyl. I think he's five or six films since then, and one of them, When Jews Were Funny, won Best Documentary at TIFF. I don't know if there's much distribution in the way of streaming or DVDs, though.

Finally watched the Zweig doc. Enjoyed it immensely, even though it was kind of a bummer. I am totally not joking/patronizing here, but I am glad that Zweig is still around because I felt oceans of sympathy for the man... maybe not least because he looks very very much like a similarly lovelorn old friend of mine.

I miss making tapes.

That was Harvey Pekar, right??

The pain I felt as that dude dumped his records in the dumpster. Ugh.

Yeah, that dude with the crazy eyes was Harvey Pekar.
The guy trashing his collection caused mixed emotions for me: an impulse to go find that dumpster and pick through the contents before someone else could + jealousy at his obvious liberation. I mean, if your house were to burn down, how big would your rebuilt post-fire collection really be?

if your house were to burn down, how big would your rebuilt post-fire collection really be?

I have often thought about that and the answer would be zero physical media and whatever MP3s were on the latest backup drive I store at a friends house.

I would have a ton of fun trying to find all those dollar records again... no way I’m paying retail for Rumours; half the fun is hunting for that great bargain copy.

My friend Scott interviewed Alan Zweig for Records, his upcoming not-a-sequel-to-Vinyl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWeV_D7dSrg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mny7a14gi6s

Alan sometimes rambles a little bit, but you know that from watching Vinyl. He interviewed us two and another friend last month for the film--we talked for about three hours, but I don't expect more than 30 seconds to make it into the finished film. Alan says his objective this time was to focus more on the records themselves--the music--than the mindset and habits of collecting.

My guess is the film will play here on TVO, after--if they're up and running by then--playing either Hot Docs or TIFF here. No idea how someone from the States or Britain would eventually get to see it.

Thanks a bunch for this!

(Have already listened to a few audio podcasts of you and Scott, clemenza, particularly your year-in-review ones if I remember right--not to overly derail from the thread too much, but these alphabetical-by-film-title Clipography Zoom videos on this channel look like a lot of fun.)

I actually saw Vinyl in a theater! I'm part of a record group with Alan, hopefully this will be viewable at some point

Oh sweet!!

Thanks, Craig. I think it will be, somehow, sleeve--Alan has a couple of his films on U.S. Prime.

have been to the local store a few times lately, it's the only place outside the grocery store I go

I've noticed it's more full than it was before Covid hit. Maybe just small sample size but it seems like people are getting into it more now that we're not supposed to do anything else.

i enjoyed this interview with Alan Zweig. rewatched VINYL last night and it's just as amazing as ever. has anybody figured out how to watch RECORDS? it seems like you might have to be in Canada.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_9DXjQnx2Q

https://www.tvo.org/video/documentaries/records

full doc there. i didn't know this existed, thanks!

does the video not play outside Canada?

“Playback Denied : Location” :-(

VPN time I guess

in that interview, AZ mentioned he was featured on this podcast, That Record Got Me High, which might be worth checking out.

https://www.thatrecordgotmehigh.com/s6e301-neil-young-tonights-the-night-with-alan-zweig/

i'm going to look into getting a VPN i guess

just one more thing i wanted to share: AZ mentions in the youtube interview i posted that he went so far as to hire a private detective to track down the K-Tel guy from "vinyl" so he could interview him for "records." but apparently he was unable to locate him; AZ claims the last time he saw him was when doing the original interview.