Avril Lavigne: C/D?

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I downloaded the "Complicated" video and liked it, so I went and grabbed some more of her stuff -- and it's good! (Except for that Glenn Ballard-meets-Andrew W.K. production that seems fitted for the P.A. music at your local mall's T.J. Maxx.) Punchy pop vocals that are just dandy if you don't mind thick Canadian accents; cute-teenagerish lyrics that are a helluvalot more economical and less neurotic than those of Miz Barthburger (who's no longer a teen, but may as well be) or Miz Kalvin Klein Kiddie Porn (ditto); melodies that, well, people like Diane Warren and Desmond Child are paid MILLIONS to churn out, and isn't it hilarious that some teenage dipshit French-Canadian nobody is saving her label major bux by writing her Big Hit Song herself? Plus, she plays guitar, and that's nice to see... maybe she'll learn how to produce so she can shitcan the vacuous hack who worked her boards for this record.

― Jody Beth Rosen, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

total fakee middle of ontario/quebec small town crap. now zany punkyness isn't even punk anymore.

― ddd, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Who said anything about punk?

― Jody Beth Rosen, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

*She* does, almost incessantly.

Every indication I've had from people who've 'interviewed' her (or rather, tried to) is that she's not exactly the dynamic, independent, free-thinking revolutionary that her bio would have you believe.

― Mark, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

.. which is to suggest that she's really quite the opposite. A dimwitted, painfully ordinary teen whose tenuous grasp of 'punk' is just 90s enough to know that it's probably a good thing to be.

― Mark, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I haven't read her bio. I hardly even know who she is, except for the few songs I've heard and one Village Voice review that wasn't completely celebratory. She just seems like a typical suburban chick who probably gets stoned with her icky skater boyfriend. Which is why I'm surprised that I like her music -- I grew up HATING people like that.

― Jody Beth Rosen, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I mean, if she were really trying to be punk, don't you think she'd want her music to sound, like, A LITTLE BIT punk? Cuz it doesn't... not at all. It sounds like Canadian Top 40 music.

― Jody Beth Rosen, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

In fact, the more I think about the enormous chasm that seems to exist between Avril Lavigne, Media Construction (viz 'wild child,' 'punky', 'free spirit', 'independent thinker' and every other Woodstock buzz phrase you can think of without trying *too* hard) and Avril Lavigne, Actual Person (in every interview I've read, she seems to be completely unable to string together a meaningful sentence, much less do a reasonable job propping up the label's construct of her, image-wise), the more I'm likely to completely deride her as a totally poseable, Glen Ballard-channelling, right-place/right-time, no-talent hack.

― Mark, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Can you link me to one of these interviews?

― Jody Beth Rosen, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But isn't that the point? That she doesn't seem to have any idea what punk actually is (hell, *I* barely do anymore) and yet she still has no problems presenting her fluffy, Alanis-lite popisms off as the real deal? Moreover, I'm not entirely sure what "her music" means. As far as I'm aware (and I could be wrong on this), there are no songwriting credits listed on the inset.

Meh. Don't mean to seem bitter, but there's only so much one can be forced to swallow, before, well, one spits.

― Mark, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

blimey who is Miz Kalvin Klein Kiddie Porn? you wacky modern teens with yr hipping and yr hopping

― mark s, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Here's one a colleague at work did:

HMV.com

Here's a similar one from another Canadian music portal:

Canoe.ca

― Mark, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Let's try that first one again.

― Mark, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

OK, you're right, she doesn't seem like the brightest bulb in the lamp, and her fake aloofness is pretty laughable. Time will tell, I guess.

― Jody Beth Rosen, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Kalvin Klein Kiddie Porn = Fiona Apple (as seen in the "Criminal" video).

― Jody Beth Rosen, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Avril reminds me of how they have cartoons (both series and movies) with some sort of fantastic adventure, like space travel or being a rockstar or mountain trekking or whatever but there's that one character who is total CRAP but put there so that the kids can identify with someone? That's who she is.

― Sterling Clover, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"Thick Canadian accents"? "Canadian Top 40 music"? Optical (and/or aural) illusions. Trust me.

― s woods, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

If you want to catch all the ramblings of this dimwit check out fametracker.com and their forum page on her. They have already accumulated articles and pictures that will tell about the horror of Avril. Actually you could also just check out the video for "Complicated."

[url=http://www.fametracker.com/ijsbb/forum.cgi?a=list&f=1&d=45&t=200797&n=195,1#n] Site[/url]

― C., Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think I'm going to start liking this song. If I try hard enough I can do it. (im serious)

― Keiko, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

That Fametracker link was total vindication. I had no idea that *so* many people had a hate on for her...

― Mark, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Just saw the vid for this. She's certainly cute in a Jennifer Love Hewittt sorta way, if that's your bag, but any "Punkness" about her is strictly sartorial, and even that is painfully dated (c'mon, folks, it's 2002....when my seven-year old nephew can walk around the house with blue hair, it's no longer shocking or subversive!) Musically speaking, "Complicated" isn't any more offensive than, say, anything by equally faux-Punk Pink (who seems to try much harder to imply those roots than little moppett Avril does, which immediately makes Avril more credible). Avirl ultimately sorta reminds me of a female version of that New Radicals crap from a few years back.....which wasn't particularly "Punk" either, despite all visual evidence to the contrary (kids with DK's shirts and piercings running around a mall in the video, sticking it to 'the man.')

Who is "Miz Barthburger"?

― Alex in NYC, Saturday, 29 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Whoops, I didn't link the Fametracker page right. Well, you get the idea.

Is it just me or does anyone else think that "Complicated" and "Don't Let Me Get Me" have too similiar melodies. I get confused whenever one first comes on the radio. Blame L.A. Reid.

― C-, Saturday, 29 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think her britches are too big.

― Jeff, Saturday, 29 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

im guessing mz barthbuger is alanis morrisete. barthbuger being a refrence to a 'you cant do that on television' character.

― chaki, Saturday, 29 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I see she has a song called "Sk8er Boi". Come now, surely she must r0x0r? (BTW I haf never heard her)

― Norman Phay, Saturday, 29 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The New Radicals wre great pop, howerver!

― Sterling Clover, Sunday, 30 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I love that New Radicals song. And who was it? Was it Patti Smith that raved about that song once in an interview? Of course it was probably in her "People Have the Power" days. Oh wait...those days aren't over.

I want to smack that burrito out of Avril's mouth.

― C-, Sunday, 30 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

what's up with the way she pronounces "when you strike a POSE"..."put on all your preppy CLOTHES"

― geeg, Monday, 1 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I mean, if she were really trying to be punk, don't you think she'd want her music to sound, like, A LITTLE BIT punk? Cuz it doesn't... not at all.

Please see for reference to this trick of image the articles about Pink that have run in recent months, including the one which was illustrated by her posed in a Plasmatics album cover setting; the duct tape on her nipples in the "Just Like A Pill" video -- you know, the one where the guitar's mixed all the way down?; and the absolute Meredith Brooksness of her album save that one Peaches-ish track.

― maura, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

That song is nice. And the bass is mixed up instead, and then the guitar comes on in these pretty layers.

Anyway, ditching an R&B career to kickstart a new "punk" trend is pretty punk if you ask me.

― Sterling Clover, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Wow, I was just going to post on that other thread that Avril seems like a teenage Meredith Brooks! Except I've never heard any of the songs or seen the video. It's something about the way she poses in the publicity shots, I guess.

― Arthur, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Maura, have you seen this?

― Sterling Clover, Friday, 12 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah! I did when you first posted it, but how can you expect me to remember something from so long ago? Isn't that rockist? (ha ha ha)

Anyway you're right about the post-teenpop casting about for image—see also the adjectives on the releases accompanying the Vanessa Carlton and Michelle Branch records and the heralding of J. Timberlake as the next Michael Jackson (and probably the gossip column items linking him to Janet as well). The wholesale buying into it by so-called critics is what rankles me, I guess.

And I still think that "Just Like A Pill" sounds crap; on the radio the mixing up of the bass makes the song sound like it's just her and drums made of crinkly paper, no matter how much graphic equalizer fiddling you do.

― maura, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

haha maura no matter how hard you want it soundgarden and liz phair will never be on the radio again

― Josh, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Can't wait for Josh to start crying in 2008 wondering where his current heroes are, trampled under the weight of history. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

haha ned I am working around this by pre-selecting heroes with built-in obsolesence or ones that have already been swept away haha

― Josh, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

or that never had the chance!

― Josh, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I have just found out that I am getting a free copy of Ms Lavigne's album, courtesy of a particularly sadistic editor of mine! Full report to follow.

ps where did i ever say i wanted liz phair on the radio? i just don't want drums that sound like their sound came from a present's being unwrapped.

― maura, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

A most worthy approach, Mr. Kortbein. :-)

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

is joke! laughing, etc

― Josh, Sunday, 14 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

six months pass...

"I love that New Radicals song. And who was it? Was it Patti Smith that raved about that song once in an interview? Of course it was probably in her "People Have the Power" days. Oh wait...those days aren't over."

Joni Mitchell gave it props recently! I think Michelle Branch's "Game of Love" is the positive female counterpart to this song. They sound so similar, chordwise & vocally.

― Fivvy, Sunday, 26 January 2003 20:50 (twenty-three years ago)

six months pass...

Utter utter classic beyond disbelief. The footery harmonics below the main riff of "Sk8ter Boi", the intricately timed and overlapping intro to "I'm With You", the k-chk k-chk guitars in "Losing Grip", such a pretty pretty voice in places and the lonelinest peopled universe in the world trying to convince itself that there's more to love than life but falling and stumbling and hurtling and hurting itself into the revelation that, yes, that is true but there's not enough without it.

― David. (Cozen), Saturday, 9 August 2003 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

"...loneliest..." & "...more to life than love..."

― David. (Cozen), Saturday, 9 August 2003 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked the typo better: "More to love than life".

― David A. (Davant), Sunday, 10 August 2003 05:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Plus, I've never understood the Avril hate on ILM.

I mean, what's to hate?

Her version of "Knockin' on Heaven's Door" doesn't suck anywhere near as much as I though it would. And the proceeds go to War Child.

Some people just hate teenagers in a kind of irrational orgy of (their own) post-adolescent self-loathing, I guess.

― David A. (Davant), Sunday, 10 August 2003 05:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I passed a couple of exact Avril clones in the mall tonight. the hair, the tie, the makeup, the expression - everything. it really creeped me out for some reason.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 10 August 2003 06:02 (twenty-two years ago)

this may be my favorite post ever.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 10 August 2003 06:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I passed a couple of exact Avril clones in the mall tonight. the hair, the tie, the makeup, the expression - everything. it really creeped me out for some reason.

I saw Avril recently -- probably on MuchMusic -- and she said almost the same thing.

Then she said she's ditching the tie.

Priceless.

― David A. (Davant), Sunday, 10 August 2003 06:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Some people just hate teenagers in a kind of irrational orgy of (their own) post-adolescent self-loathing, I guess.

As one, I think I can say sans the post-adolescent self-loathing (but with adolescent self-loathing to spare!) that a good majority of people hate teenagers, because they're dumb.

Especially in the Avril case, with Complicated and Sk8r Boi's incessent whining that preppies just don't get them, and they're tired of being outcasts. Nevermind the borderline racist (yes, I said it) mentality of putting people into such groups -- I'll let it slide, that's what teens do -- but c'mon, skaters aren't the outcasts? It's nerds.

That's why DEVO will always be the ultimate punks.

I think I was trying to make a point, but lost it when DEVO sprung to my mind. Damn. Well, I'll go listen to them now. Right.

― David Allen, Sunday, 10 August 2003 06:25 (twenty-two years ago)

You see, I'm firmly of the belief that teenagers are absolutely not dumb.

Then again, maybe "mainstream" teenagers are, after all, as dumb as their adult counterparts.

But seriously, I've worked with damaged and hurt (street, abused, neglected) teens for a long time, and they never cease to surprise me (perhaps because I'm dumb?) with their intelligence and insights.

I have this theory that those of us who had crappy transitions into adulthood, if we haven't confronted and in some way "dealt" with them, we tend to view childhood -- and especially adolescence -- as something bad.

I've seen perfectly "nice" adults fuck up their kids royally, and usually over something trivial -- like "if you won't follow the rules of my house, get out!" People: do you ever stop and think what happens to kids out there when no-one but their equally lost friends are looking out for them?

Sorry. Something I got a lot of thoughts and surprising emotion about. I'm not necessarily defending Avril, per se, but just that sense that it's the feeling of being outcast that matters to many, whether it's objectively true or not.

Now back to our scheduled programming...

― David A. (Davant), Sunday, 10 August 2003 06:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 72 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFSaNmZyPQo

― markers, Tuesday, 9 April 2013 17:41 (thirteen years ago)

what's a bimbox

― polyphonic, Tuesday, 9 April 2013 17:42 (thirteen years ago)

Can artists be banned from mentioning Radiohead in their songs?

― MarkoP, Tuesday, 9 April 2013 17:48 (thirteen years ago)

wow i threw my headphones out of my ears at that first lyric

― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Tuesday, 9 April 2013 17:49 (thirteen years ago)

maybe she meant the talking heads song

― how's life, Tuesday, 9 April 2013 17:50 (thirteen years ago)

Who the heck sings Radiohead at the top of their lungs?

― MarkoP, Tuesday, 9 April 2013 18:00 (thirteen years ago)

song is p good

― johnny crunch, Tuesday, 9 April 2013 18:01 (thirteen years ago)

it's pretty catchy

― polyphonic, Tuesday, 9 April 2013 18:09 (thirteen years ago)

Here's To Never Ever Ever Growing Up Together

― ARE YOU HIRING A NANNY OR A SHAMAN (Phil D.), Tuesday, 9 April 2013 18:15 (thirteen years ago)

it just makes me wanna turn it off and listen to "complicated"

― teddy dominatrix (dyl), Tuesday, 9 April 2013 20:16 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/Gg2ieRP.jpg

― markers, Wednesday, 10 April 2013 17:29 (thirteen years ago)

four months pass...

http://i.imgur.com/uIlv5uW.jpg

― markers, Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:06 (twelve years ago)

i love "rock n roll"

― uberweiss, Saturday, 10 August 2013 16:50 (twelve years ago)

that cover is great

― johnny crunch, Saturday, 10 August 2013 17:03 (twelve years ago)

"Rock and Roll" is pretty great. It's not game-changing, but I think it stands among her better entries.

― how's life, Saturday, 10 August 2013 17:22 (twelve years ago)

Sk8er Boi and Complicated are guilty pleasures of mine and I don't care who knows it

― paolo, Sunday, 11 August 2013 17:23 (twelve years ago)

amy poehler's lurching, oddly simian impression of avril makes me crack up forever.

― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 11 August 2013 17:35 (twelve years ago)

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmdf9vBEmh1qcyuhro1_500.gif

― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 11 August 2013 17:48 (twelve years ago)

this video haaaaa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuNTO31FlY8

― monotony, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 11:51 (twelve years ago)

That video needs a poll thread. Tank Girl? Billy Zane? The math genius girl from The Wonder Years? November Rain? Shark vs. Bear? Copping another Taylor Swift single?

― Here's the storify, of a lovely ladify (Phil D.), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 12:30 (twelve years ago)

lol @ "oh, my new sony phone is ringing!"

― markers, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 14:25 (twelve years ago)

i am the motherfucking princess

― markers, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 14:28 (twelve years ago)

you are.

― how's life, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 14:36 (twelve years ago)

wow

― sean gramophone, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 16:53 (twelve years ago)

MY. NAME. IS. AVRILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL - AVRIL LAVIGNE!!

― Kissin' Cloacas (Viceroy), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:23 (twelve years ago)

Love the November Rain nod

― Hooks on Phoenix worked for me (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 20:24 (twelve years ago)

Switchblade lobster ftw, in my opinion.

http://www.aux.tv/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/avril-lobster.png

― A. Begrand, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 20:39 (twelve years ago)

two weeks pass...

this album is going to rule

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaKy1JhzqeI

― johnny crunch, Sunday, 8 September 2013 17:03 (twelve years ago)

that's really good, but it's one of the only songs on the album w/o a Kroeger writing credit and the new single is pretty bad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuNTO31FlY8

― suggest ban & threadban method man & redman (some dude), Sunday, 8 September 2013 17:29 (twelve years ago)

i wanted to like "rock n roll" b/c i thought the sony phone bit was funny in the video but alas :\

― dyl, Sunday, 8 September 2013 17:30 (twelve years ago)

oh that was already posted itt n/m (xp)

― suggest ban & threadban method man & redman (some dude), Sunday, 8 September 2013 17:32 (twelve years ago)

"rock n roll" is pop cocaine! won't hear a bad word against it. the other two tracks are blaaaaaaaaaaand

― uberweiss, Sunday, 8 September 2013 17:45 (twelve years ago)

one month passes...

other than the dubstep hello kitty song theres a lot to like here, i even have good initial feelings abt the kroeger duet ballad and (to a lesser extent) the manson song

― johnny crunch, Sunday, 27 October 2013 23:06 (twelve years ago)

and overall this is miles better than the new katy perry

― johnny crunch, Sunday, 27 October 2013 23:08 (twelve years ago)

Dubstep hello kitty song?

*listens*

Oh dear.

― MarkoP, Sunday, 27 October 2013 23:31 (twelve years ago)

there's a new avril lavigne??

― Mordy , Sunday, 27 October 2013 23:32 (twelve years ago)