1978-198? London Music/Clubs - Opinions wanted

And when you're done don't forget to distort history (that's what history is there for innit).

Distorting history is fun, but nobody gets to be a 'Professor of Systems of Thought' like Foucault out of it anymore... *sigh*

as far as the music goes i like some of the singles but I never got round to getting alb. since I didn't think much of the music. so it wouldn't be appropriate to comment on the other 'issues' you raise as well.

It will have to be someone else to comment on this.

Well, you try coming up with a way to write about the Sex Pistols for a geography degree! My take on it was that the cities outside of London, when a critical mass of bands formed, provided a, ahem, 'nurturing' environment that allowed them to develop outside of the critical mainstream in London - cf. Joy Division/Buzzcocks/Stone Roses in Manchester etc - while London was always fashion and industry-led.

The exception to the rule was the fallout of the punk scene, so that while the initial trendsetters might have been fashion and style-orientated (Sex Pistols and their entourage), the DIY-ers who followed broke out of the London mainstream and could be found playing at venues such as the (Long-gone) Roxy in Ilford. In particular, the 'outcast' bands you mention such as the Stranglers were always particularly popular here.

Its also worth mentioning that these suburban areas still live outside the mainstream and yet play host to some of the most vital groundbreaking music (and a lot of tat, admittedly) - Ilford in NE london in particular was one of the main breeding grounds of Jungle over its many pirate radio stations in the early 90's.

As for the Simon Reynolds comparison - he only covers the easy stuff! Hopefully this book will piss all over 'particpant observation' lad- crit ;-)

You can't generalise about what bands from or near London were doing. Some followed the evolution of punk and post punk into the early '80s (which ultimately lead to the Smiths and indie), while others consciously turned their backs on it to form the electronic/funk/disco/Blitz scene (which lead eventually to the House and rave scene of the late '80s). With regard to the artists you mention, Numan was important in kick starting the electronic revolution. He was a joke visually, but 'Are Friends Electric' was so all-pervading in 1979 and showed that the Clash-lead punk orthodoxy was crumbling (at least in the UK). That one record and the release of the Wasp synthesiser were very influential. Japan had a lot of cred because (like Ultravox) they were a little mysterious and had stuck to their guns in 1977-78 rather than becoming punks. The Stranglers are in a different category - retro psych/Doors organ (not synth). Although they were on the London punk scene early (1976), the audiences they picked up as they became more popular were more mainstream pop/rock/new wave (they were probably reviled equally by hardcore punks and 'blitz kids').

The political/sociological questions are complex and don't have simple answers but I would say generally that the 'New Romantics'/Blitz scene probably tended to go with the flow of Thatcherism, partly because it was essentially escapist/fantasist anyway, but also because the Rock Against Racism/Socialist Worker axis had (after much debate) taken punk on board as the music of protest and working class struggle etc. and that continued in the early '80s. Cross-dressing and ignoring the important issues of the day kind of marked the card of the 'New Romantics' in the eyes of those who held the 'degeneracy of bourgeois culture' view.

I'm interested as to why you say Numan 'was a joke visually'. From what I've read of reviews from the time and Gary's own biogs etc, it seems his stage show was absolutely paramount, and he refused to sacrifice its lavishness even when he was nearing bankruptcy. He was unable to rely on radio play from Telekon onwards and instead turned his focus to making his tours spectacular in the extreme. What I find pivotal is that this visual emphasis underscored a sound that was hardly stadium-friendly - he seems to have had a very ambivalent stance about large scale shows, including famously announcing his retiral from touring, only to revoke it almost immediately. He also was an early pioneer of pop video - again the confused sound/vision relationship.

Japan are hard to get a consistent angle on. Although I like them immensely personally, my research has shown that until Tin Drum all they were sure of was an 'all style no content' slating, with endless accusations of ripping off first the New York Dolls, then Bryan Ferry. It seems curious for such a resoundingly muso band. Much of their critical acclaim in this regard seems to have been conferred after the fact.

The Stranglers are probably most relevant from about The Raven onwards - much more experimentation, less Doors-esque wig-outs.

The Thatcherism question is incredibly complex, even dividing bands. Boy George hated her, Jon Moss worshipped her. Numan was a vociferous supporter, but on a newly-converted, working class ('my parents worked their way up from nothing') bias.

Can anyone help me source Paul Weller's quote about voting for Thatcher (pre Red Wedge, natch). I've been trying to track it down for ages...

What I meant was that he came across to many people as a clumsy Bowie copy with receding hair. But not to his (large) devoted fan base of course.

The Paul Weller Tory quote was from 1977 and it might have been in a fanzine (Sniffin' Glue or perhaps 48 Thrills) rather than the music press proper. Not sure though.