FISCHERSPOONER on Top of the Pops?

Yep, saw that. Anyone else reckon they sound like Sigue Sigue Sputnik?

Not saying that's a bad thing...

A friend of mine works on the show,so we went along to see them.Someone standing next to me said'I thought 'Cats' had closed'which was quite funny.We got to meet them too which was fun,nice crowd.Casey Spooner was quite outrageous,pole-dancing in the bar.We all had a really fun night& we got to see GARETH GATES!

Fischerspooner sounds like Sigue Sigue Sputnik? Um, no. Hell no. Fischerspooner are going to save art and music from the old-fashioned overly critical farts that tread swamp water and spit out recycled Greil Marcus-isms in message boards like this one.

How interesting that such a manifesto itself somehow sounds decades old as well...

Sigue Sigue Sputnik already saved art and music from the old- fashioned overly critical farts...

Does anyone else remember when Tony James hosted MTV and interviewed a side of beef wearing Wayfarers named 'Meat'?

Fischerspooner are the daft punks of nu-electro.

I saw it. It was a classic 'what do they look like?' moment for dads and Stereophonics fans everywhere as those prancing popinjays bought the ridiculous back to TOTP.
Flamboyant costumes, make-up (on men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), poor miming, pantomime theatricals, ROBOT DANCING (yes!) and acute embarrassment for the bewildered audience.
AND THAT IS HOW IT S H O U L D B E !

'Emerge' sounded rubbish on the TV though, really weak.

Also, Richard Blackwood's 'oo-er, they look like homos.s.s.sexuals! Backs to the wall!' style gurning: prat.

Fischerspooner are the daft punks of nu-electro.
Care to expand on that statement? Those statements always sound *cleverer* when you don't expand on'em. heh. (Disclaimer: oh about three hours of sleep in the last two days and too much dance music has rendered me somewhat CRANKY.)

Haha yes, I was thinking of adding, though they're more punk than daft afterwards. Lots of #1 reminds me of Daft Punk, it's got the same rock feel to it, Invisible is Fischerspooner's Digital Love. Actually my reasons are a bit lame other than "it reminds me of Daft Punk".

I grudgingly enjoyed their appearance. On the positive side, for once TOTP showed an act that wasn't mum n dad friendly (or maybe just dad in the case of paed fodder Holly Vallance). And the spangly pants were excellent. On the other hand - is this the best electroclash can do? It would be terrible if folk watching thought that NYC residency was a pre-requisite for getting involved, a la whichever wave of New Wave the strokes are. Mind you, the London electroclash scene is pretty bollocks as well just now - wankers like Riviera reckon a spot of Miami Vice clipart and some plastic pussy pelmets will serve in lieu of some genuinely provocative content. Up here in Scotland the scene is a tad more ideas-led, even political - check out Motormark, The Electroluvs, Prague Candy - etc.

I'm no friend of Riviera, but (pace Lisa) Motormark were so shoddy at their gig in London's nasty Metro club recently (think: Chumbawumba in worse kilts) they made the Rivs look positively majestic.

Shoddy? That surprises me, cos any time I've seen them in Scotland they've been so tightly choreographed they've put all the mumbling post-rock arses up here to shame...sorry to hear that.

On the positive side, for once TOTP showed an act that wasn't mum n dad friendly

But (some) mums and dads are the right age these days to have been into Visage etc. Why would they have been fazed by Fischerspooner?

I thought it was ok but sounded kind of weak. Like when he said something rabble-rousing ('make some noise') as a pre-cursor to a supposedly exciting section, but then nothing much happened. Probably the most astonishing moment was when he whipped off his cloak.

How interesting that such a codger-toned critique of a "manifesto" itself somehow sounds decades old as well... Listen sparky, Fischerspooner is over your head. Sigue Sigue may have saved your older brother from Quiet Riot, but they sure as hell didn't save rock and roll.

Are you *quite* all right? You're conflating Venga and myself, and while I might not mind, Venga could have objections. ;-) I haven't actually heard Fischerspooner yet, and have no opinions about their music per se. But I definitely distrust PR when I see it, especially when delivered from someone who seems annoyed to even be here and contemptuous of the forum as a whole.

David M's post = totally OTM.

The use of "conflating" without the need of a thesaurus here is a clear sign of a small penis. This is where you critique my swaying from subject and my lack of verbosity, vocabulary and originality. Oh yes, and my suspicious need for attention via penile references and don't forget my suspiciously bad mood. Anyway, FS are all about PR for its own sake. About performing in one's own bedroom to the tune of half a mil a show. They formed at an Astor Place Starbucks for their first performance, according to the legend. It's a long story.... and it's not really about the music. It's about the gall of it all. From the sound of the descriptions, it sounds like they were successful at accomplishing what they aimed to do. Wish I could've seen 'em. As far as my pissing off of anyone comparing them to Sigue Sigue, .... that's the idea, sport. Bufferin, always an option. This is the internet.

'pparently their contract is fucking immense. Millions (don't know for how long, tho). That's the rumor. Dig thru the Voice's fly-life cols to find the supposed figger. But Tricia Romano's anti- electroclash, so caveat.

Anyway, good for them. Beats grad school, donnit?

Me, I live in a third-tier midwestern city; hype reaches us with truly echoplexian delay, and is thus meaningless. Are they really worth bothering with if I don't live in Williamsburg?

Fischerspooner want to be Peter Schilling so badly !!

I remember reading something from W.I.T., the Larry-Tee-created Williamsburg elektrogroop (consisting of three failed models and some anonymous electro), they said "we're not going to let artistic integrity get in the way of our commercial success" and the fact that the quote itself is so good it might have been written for them to say makes it even better

Has anyone else noticed how similar Fischerspooner are to the situationist tactics of the KLF? Whatever happened to Bill Drummond anyway? After that book "45" he must've just gotten on with the business of raising his kids in provincia and spending what's left of the money after burning the million quid. I do miss 'em though. You know, in a weird way... Nirvana mockingly replaced hair metal in the same kind of way that I wish FS could displace Britney. Nah. The guy who posted the blurb about FS not being relevant outside of Williamsburg makes me angry, but he's pretty damn right on target. There a little too smart for their own good. But, it's early in the game. They must be doing something right. The wrangled $5 million out of Ministry of Sound before even releasing their first effort on a major label. Hmmmmm....

― maria, Monday, 22 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

maria:

I've been misunderstood: my q was meant to be and actual question and not rhetorical, eg a slag.

I just wanted to point out that there are unwashed millions who are not in the Situation their Situationism is About, and have to get at it via aesthetic rather that social reasons. Should I shell out, or just forget it? The latter, I assume?

"Should I shell out, or just forget it?"

You need to hear/own "Emerge". It's a single. It's also available on a number of compilations and mix CDs already. It's not esssential to get the LP, however.

Fischerspooner are about 3 thousand light years away from being comparable to the KLF, don't even bother.

'Emerge' doesn't just sound weak on the tv, it IS weak. And it's a damn fucking shame that it is, otherwise I'd be as excited as Maria about the whole Fischy thang. (the Craig Spooner bootleg goes some way toward rectifying this but still...)

I find Fischerspooner disheartening because they've got all these quasi-astute ideas but just aren't going about it in The Right Way, the way that could take them from being a risible footnote in pop history to a world-conquering spangly sensation (see KLF). The Right Way (amongst other things) encompasses HUGE catchy anthems and the Fisch just haven't got these. Yet.

And I refuse to accept that 'Looks good, feels good, sounds good too' (or whatever it is) is anything other than a banal and uninspiring soundbite, and not even singable!

KLF update:

Bill has recently brought out a book called 'How to be an Artist', the follow-up to 'The Manual', and is giving public lectures on topics such as 'Is God a Cunt?' in his fave Clerkenwell bar. His personal records of much of his current art-terrorist activities can be found on the Penkiln Burn website.

I unsubscribed from the KLF list cos most of the people on it seemed to be sycophantic arseholes who didn't even realise you could buy his new 'out-there' tome on Amazon, they were so busy booking flights from Sweden to see him rant on in a pub to wannabe YoungBritishArtists.

'Is God a Cunt?' in his fave Clerkenwell bar

Actually, *NOT* in Clerkenwell, in Hoxton. Just sticking up for my 'Hood.

Maria...the SSS comparison was meant as a glib, throwaway comment. Maybe I should have put one of these ;-) after it, but then again....no.

my suspiciously bad mood

But now you're happy! Amazing!

So, I rather assume there's a website?

Ian,

Let's do a little dissection, 'kay?

<>

Well, far be it from me to say that one opinion is better than another, but.... well, okay I will. You suck, and you can't back up a point for shit. Fischerspooner are just as conceptually weighty as the KLF, probably more so in the grand scheme of things (i.e. art world cred - Bill's taken some hellish critical hits from ArtForum, Flash Art, etc. in the past, esp. after burning a million quid - which by the way was genius), but I'm not going to dwell on that. The point is thaat saying so doesn't make it so. "Emerge" is just as vibrant as 3 A.M. Eternal ever was, and that's coming from someone who prays at both of the altars of Situationist prankery, even if one comes from knuckle-dragging machismo art wankish Transcentral and one comes from the big ball of glitter that is the gay cult of beauty, youth, and glamour.

<>

"Yet" is perhaps your only saving grace here. Of course, everything you've said begs for you to show everyone "the right way," instead of just mentioning it in passing. I don't think that the KLF made much more than a minor dent in American or Japanese culture. They were a strictly European, and more specifically British, phenom. And again, "Emerge" is catchy enough, even if the world isn't ready for it yet. Here's where you criticise me for being elitist, snobbish, and underinformed.

<>

That's because you're a cunt, and you have to have your art force-fed to you. They're not being ironic spark plug, they're serious. I suppose this is where you tell me that it still doesn't work for you. Hell, I don't care if it does. I like it, and before I came to this board, I've never met anyone who didn't find FS joyous and refreshing in the current climate.

Let's help Maria out here.

Assault Philip Schofield. No-one's ever gonna expect that.

they could actually choreograph stuff instead of just pretending to. all of a sudden I feel like Spencer Chow!

Obviously if I could think of the details of something that would amaze me, I'd be an artist and do it. But the fact that I can't doesn't mean that I don't know the feeling of amazement. That's the gap that Fischerspooner are falling down, for me, for the moment - they're trying to amaze me, which is GREAT. They're not amazing me yet, which isn't. That might be because I don't get them, or it might be because I do - in terms of the impact they're having on me, it doesn't matter which.

And in terms of the impact they're having generally, what I think doesn't matter - fair enough.

I don't know why you're getting so uptight about the Sputnik comparisons. FS don't sound anything like Sputnik, but if it's about the hype not the music then that was exactly the Sputnik manifesto too - so why aren't comparisons fair? The comparisons might not be *interesting*, especially if just left as a tossed-off comment, but they're there for the making. You can remember Sputnik and think 'oh yes' and still love Fischerspooner, right?

Why do you like Fischerspooner? The Britney thing is intriguing but I don't think it fits: Nirvana was kind of a back-to-basics move for rock after the 'dishonesty' of hair metal; but pop stars have always been distanced and dishonest. Maybe that's what FS want to change, though - to be an 'honest', warts-n-all pop star. In which case the slight lameness of the TOTP performance - the "make some noise" bits, etc. - is all part of the Thing. It was endearing anyway.

The chorus of "Emerge" isn't great but the build up is fantastic.

If you want a record that actually sounds exactly like Sigue Sigue Sputnik, listen to "Miss Lucifer" by Primal Scream.

As for Bill Drummond? The big shocking things he did - million quid dead sheep blah blah - aren't why he's so fantastic. The little things he did when nobody was looking - the ones he writes about in '45' and the ones he probably has done and not written about - are. Things like driving round the M25 for 25 hours, going off to Finland and inventing bands, things you could do yourself to make your life more interesting - Art on a budget if you like.

I'm not sure the costumes and live shows do anything for Fischerspooner but give people who don't like them some lame ammunition. Musically #1 is non mix album of the year as far as I'm concerned, I think the key to Emerge is the growled "come on!" towards the end. Having said that there are better songs on the album.

Saying "I'd like to like Fischerspooner, but Emerge is weak" is a wrongheaded argument because it assumes FS are about music. Music isn't the reason for Fischerspooner, it's the excuse.

The interesting thing about their appearance on TOTP was that in TOTP- Land, those things that get Fischerspooner talked about (miming onstage, silly costumes, choreography etc) are fairly common. So why is it different when FS mime than when Popstar X mimes? (Not quite sure but I think it's because Popstar X seems to mime automatically, almost as if they have no other option) but when FS do it, they seem to be Making A Point.

Well if that doesn't prove my point nothing does

Um, except I really, really like Fischerspooner

But you speak about their act as if it's nothing original and you say their music is an excuse, so what is the attraction?

Well, in a way, it isn't that original. They mime, yes, but lots of bands mime. But when FS do it, there's something different about it - I'm just not sure what. They announce the fact they mime, they celebrate it and so perhaps that's it (when I saw them, Casey asked an off-stage Warren to turn up the monitors because it was hard to lip-sync. Apparantly the next night, he shouted in true rock-god style "Are you ready to RAWK? [cue huge cheers] Good, because we're ready to RAWK you! Warren, press play...").

Their music is an excuse. I don't think, on its own, their music would be enough to justify the fuss that surrounds them. In fact, if it was just about the music, that fuss would never have existed. It's because of all the other stuff surrounding them that they're interesting and it's because of all the other stuff I like them (fortunately, I do happen to like their music too, though this is just a bonus)

"Beep, bup...bup, Beep - KLF is gonna rock you!"

Very well said James.

Hang on, that performance was meant to an art prank? I wasn't really watching but I thought they were just doing the usual thing having dancers when an electronic act gets in the chart?

What James describes as their point sounds like the most useless joke ever.

Hang on, that performance was meant to an art prank? I wasn't really watching but I thought they were just doing the usual thing having dancers when an electronic act gets in the chart?

No, the dancers (and the routine) were the same as the ones they have during their gigs. This is why it didn't really make sense in TOTP- land and didn't really seem v.impressive (in another context ie: during a gig, where normally a band would perform the music rather than perform to the music, it seems 100000x better)

So FS fans are like early Manics fans, then?

Damn, that was meant to say "perform to the music" (with "to" in italics)

to answer james's points. does this mean that in a 'pop' context it doesn't 'mean' anything because thats what pop does anyway and always has, and its, like, FS are making a point of doing what is done anyway so you can't tell the difference between FS and popstar X (not a bad thing), but in a 'rock/gig/live' context it makes more sense because its 'subverting' the notion of what that actually is? if this is the case, then do you have to come from a 'rock' context to understand 'hey look theyre subversive' because in a 'pop' context everything subverts rockist authenticism? do you have to be believe in the inherent value of what is being 'subverted', didn't popists reject all that aeons ago? doesn't stop FS being good of course, they are ok

i liked it when The Gentle People play 'live' and they don't even make a pretence of instruments or singing, but float around drinking champagne and ballroom dancing

"Has anyone else noticed how similar Fischerspooner are to the situationist tactics of the KLF?"

They strike me as being more like Altern-8 - applying quasi-KLF ideas within a narrower sphere, taking the excesses of a new and culturally-laden dance genre to their (il)logical extreme, and as a result being stuck with and within it (whereas The KLF always walked the line between seriousness and jokiness, and were free to flit between styles). As with Altern-8, I don't think that necessarily hampers the music quality (though of course it inevitably creates a potential value gap between hype and reality) but I wonder if they'll find their very subcultural specificity to be the weight that drags them down. (not to be overly cliched about it, but nu-electro would probably be better served by an equivalent to early Prodigy).

This is all based on the sole evidence of "Emerge", mind.

Bbbut there's nothing radical about doing that in a live/gig context either. Pop bands do live PA's all the time where no one actually sings or plays a note.

its the assumption of radicalness though isn't it (whether it is actually radical or not is an irrelevancy). as for pop bands doing whatever fischerspooner do, well, they're from outside the rock orthodoxy right? if fischerspooner were a pop band then rockcrit discourse wouldn't care and it wouldn't be noticed. the reason there is interest is that FS are a rock band and therefore 'worthy' of rock discourse.

OR: how can you subvert what has already been subverted by mainstream pop culture? unless you count retrograde reactionary rockisms?

Yeah, but they seem to want to be seen as a pop band, not a rock band. If they succeed in this then their radicalness (whether it exists or not now) will disappear.

exactly! or, in the form of a burchillism, the deathwish self- fulfillment prophecy of the maoist intellectual!

Side question: what makes them a rock band? Standard critical discourse around them seems to take this as a given, but the only rockist criterion which they fulfill as far as I can see is that they write their own music and have (FSVO) complete creative control over the project. How is this any different from eg the Pet Shop Boys? OK, OK I know that it doesn't really matter that they are seen as a rock band, only that they are perceived as such, but I'm curious as to why they are seen in that way.

that last sentence should read '...I know it doesn't really matter WHY they are seen as a rock band...'

Sorry James, I genuinely thought you were being sarcastic when you said "but when FS do it it's better" or whatever it was, hence my presumption you didn't like them.

I thought of the early Manics thing too but more like "hey it IS really annoying when people keep mocking the gimmicks of a band whose music you like, now I know!". But then early Manics fans were into the gimmicks also weren't they?

Fischerspooner, for me, have made a great album, I am amused by their hair and their makeup, and by them spanking members of the audience midgig, but it's all an aside. Of course I don't mind the fact that this helps their popularity really.

Bbbut there's nothing radical about doing that in a live/gig context either. Pop bands do live PA's all the time where no one actually sings or plays a note.

Yes but they don't do it in the same way. ie: they don't announce the fact and celebrate it. There is an element of pretense (they hold microphones etc) which FS do away with (in a way, FS are more 'honest' though nearly everything else about them is made up)

Yeah, but they seem to want to be seen as a pop band, not a rock band. If they succeed in this then their radicalness (whether it exists or not now) will disappear.

I don't think they do want to be seen as a pop band. They've never claimed this - in fact they've claimed they don't consider themselves pop (actually, they claim to be punk)

I think the rock/pop orthodoxy is a good point here because to subvert one, you have to use the rules of the other (ie what makes Popband Y different to Popband Z? They write their own songs!) and this is what FS are doing.

They sound like a punk or a rock band. Rhythmically it's like rock music. The structure of the songs is like rock music, I don't know I'm a massive electronic music fan but I listen to FS for a rock fix, definitely.

i don't suppose anyone taped this did they?

OMG...bbc posted a clip.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/totp/videoclips/index.shtml

Electroclash spills tons on ink on cover profile in Billboard Magazine this week. 2 1/2 full pages...

'Emerge' sounded rubbish on the TV though, really weak.

how true! even though I've enjoyed it many times cranked over club or bar systems.
on TOTP Fischerspooner were effortlessly outclassed by the DJ Marky track and performance.

Alan T, if you only lived in the U.S... BBC America is now repeating TOTP about 15 times weekly here! I've waited years for this

This may well sound very silly... but this seems a bit like when Belle and Sebastian did TOTP and mimed it. The miming itself isn't the thing, it's what you do with it that matters, and what B&S did was use the fact that they weren't playing to free themselves up. Hence you get Stevie Jackson with his guitar behind his head, grinding on the microphone stand, Stuart Murdoch dropping his bass midway through the song and proceeding to dance like the world's least stable Smiths fan while having a fight with a man in a gorilla suit, Isobel Campbell and her Maisonettes attempting to retain an air of detached cool or at the very least avoid cracking up, and poor old Mick Cooke shaking the maracas while trying to work out just how in the hell they'd got on Top Of The Pops in the first place. It was using the freedom that miming gave them to greater enjoy the moment, seeing as how it wasn't especially likely they'd ever get let anywhere near the place ever again. To me, that's a fair bit more enjoyable than doing the stereotypical indie band performance, i.e. a slightly lacklustre live version of your single preformed in a manner that suggests nothing but utter contempt for everyone in the audience, then ending by stomping off stage or knocking over the drumkit in order to emphasise that you are in some way 'credible'.

I didn't actually see Fischerspooner, but I'm sort of hoping they went along those lines...