(note, i've only been getting into music the past year. before that i just heard whatever on the radio and usually didnt like it. that should explain why i sound so dumb).
― benton, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Do not give the Grateful Dead a chance. I have given the Grateful Dead several chances, and they continue to bore me solid. Friends say "Oh, you're into 60s garage, listen to their first album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jams. Friends say "Oh, you like spacerock, listen to this or that experimental jam album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jam drivel. Friends say "Oh, you have to listen to it on acid to get it." I listened to it on acid. It only stretched the INTERMINABLE boredom to the breaking point where it was a relief to sit and listen to radio static afterwards.
I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out-take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.
I know that calling a band "boring" is verboten on this forum. The Dead are not just boring, they are interminable, self indulgent, they noodle, they wibble, they do not drone in a transcendant manner, no they ANNIHILATE any sense of enjoyment of music to the point where I would rather listen to elevator music rather than the Dead. In fact, that is what they are. They are the elevator music of hippie stoner jam psychedelia.
Do not waste your time. Sing along with the hoover instead.
― kate, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dave q, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― alex in mainhattan, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Andrew L, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
A: God this band are shit.
(Keith Richards tells that gag - which is a bit rich considering that 'Can You Hear Me Knocking' sounds just like the Dead...)
I think they're worth checking out rather than applying some knee jerk reaction. But obviously lots of people don't agree.
― Winkelmann, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Did you even read my fucking post? This is not some knee jerk reaction. This is a carefully thought out aesthetic decision that I have reached after repeated exposure and more consideration that I would give to most bands who repeatedly bombarded me with shit.
Everything about the Grateful Dead is repulsive - the music (yes I *can* judge them on a minute or so), the fans, the mythology.... They're a crystallisation of everything I dislike in music.
― Dr. C, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave225, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Chris, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
The thing is, I love the IDEA of the Dead - the endless noodling jams, those moments of improvisation when they reach the mythical 'zone', the community of fans, all those bootlegs to tick off and collect, the Verlaine-esque sound of Garcia's gtr, the vast quantities of drugs etc etc.
But - their recs just never seem to live up to the rep - before I ever listened to them, I imagined they were like the most mega-cosmic freak out group of all time, but when I finally did spin a few of their albs all I got was wimpy country-lite w/ really terrible singing. They rarely seem to rock out in any meaningful way, their cover versions are just AWFUL (esp. the 'bluesy' Pigpen-led stuff) and Hunter's lyrics are hippy bilge.
Without wishing to sound too alt snooty, Ghost and esp. Acid Mothers Temple do the whole folk-psych rock jam thing w/ so much more passion, imagination and freaky fun.
― Spongebob, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Mark, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― adam, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
No, I don't think I recall the Dead ever having extended sax solos in any of their songs.
― hstencil, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.
I knew when I saw this thread appear it would be full of the usual "the Dead are the worst band ever" stuff... they seem to be one of a small handful of bands it's ok to heap your worst insults on around here. So I'll do my usual and say yes "American Beauty" and "Workingman's Dead" are full of concise, well-written pop songs, their mid 70's LPs on their own label are amazing ("Blues for Allah" is my pick), and as great a guitarist as Tom Verlaine is, Garcia is better. He's a better vocalist, too. I know that for whatever reason the Dead are a band many people will just never permit themselves to like, so I expect to make no converts.
― Sean, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
I think SY owe a lot to the dead in the way that they'd start a song and then they would use that as a basis for a jam and get back to the song.
The singing isn't to everyone's tastes but at a time when ppl are listening to Thom Yorke that isn't such a big problem.
― Julio Desouza, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
For myself, they don't trouble my interest, and I can't say they will be anytime soon.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Nope, and although I'm sure he's, uh, "funkier" than his brother, I can't imagine his jams with the Dead approach the instrumental break of "Can You Hear Me Knocking" (which was, after all, used by many a black "urban" radio station in the 1970s as promo music). Anyway, the point was that the claim that "Can You Hear Me Knocking" sounds like the Dead is way, way off-base.
― david h, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
''I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out- take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.''
it's bollocks! any band will have it's fans and haters but to dismiss it as 'chemical imbalance' is bullshit. Plus the 'annihalate' line (see dave q's ans).
Personally, the only song of theirs that I can instantly recognize is "Touch Of Grey". I'm fine with that.
― Dan Perry, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― M Matos, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― chaki, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Yancey, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― brg30, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Phil, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― aaron m, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
If you're still hell bent on checking out the Dead, I'd start with any of the Dick's Picks live releases from 1972 or earlier. Even then, listening to them are like trying to dig for gold in a mine that's been completely played out. There's a lot of shovelling involved for very little payoff.
― Chris Barrus, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― M Matos, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― new doorag boogie, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― , Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Andrew L, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dave q, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― unknown or illegal user, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jack Cole, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
How is the Grateful Dead any different?
There must just be a neurotransmitter that makes people like SHIT, that is the explanation.
― kate, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Chris, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Josh, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
I sampled those perro adjacent albums and didn’t take much away
― calstars, Sunday, 3 March 2024 21:39 (three weeks ago) link
pay no more than 1.99 for sunfighter, punx
― Reeves Gabrels' Funko Pop (majorairbro), Sunday, 3 March 2024 22:58 (three weeks ago) link
yeah, I was gonna say, that's a dollar bin staple of Silk Degrees proportions
― Judi Dench's Human Hand (methanietanner), Sunday, 3 March 2024 23:03 (three weeks ago) link
no shade intended to the quality of Silk Degrees, which everyone should own a near mint copy of that cost them between 50 cents and a dollar.
― Judi Dench's Human Hand (methanietanner), Sunday, 3 March 2024 23:04 (three weeks ago) link
fwiw even the thrifts in Oregon price at $2.99 minimum, but yeah I passed on it
― I painted my teeth (sleeve), Sunday, 3 March 2024 23:22 (three weeks ago) link
Silk Degrees mention lol
― calstars, Sunday, 3 March 2024 23:26 (three weeks ago) link
Sock accounts itt? lol
― calstars, Sunday, 3 March 2024 23:28 (three weeks ago) link
so in terms of studio albums, I've done american beauty, workingman dead and terrapin station. any thoughts as to what I should tackle next― Swen, Sunday, 3 March 2024 16:50 (yesterday)
― Swen, Sunday, 3 March 2024 16:50 (yesterday)
Aoxomoxoa was my introduction to GD, and I still enjoy it.
― Duke, Monday, 4 March 2024 19:24 (three weeks ago) link
next up then! this is exciting. thanking you all. (loved blues for allah btw, and loved the title track)
― Swen, Monday, 4 March 2024 19:28 (three weeks ago) link
Aoxomoxoa was my introduction to GD, and I still enjoy it.― Duke
― Duke
ok but WHICH MIX
― Kate (rushomancy), Monday, 4 March 2024 20:00 (three weeks ago) link
If you get the 2019 reissue, both mixes are on the same disc!
('69 mix is my answer, btw)
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 4 March 2024 20:03 (three weeks ago) link
both mixes are on the same disc!
and a live show on the 2nd disc! that's the version I got to replace my old LP (no, I don't remember which mix it was)
― I painted my teeth (sleeve), Monday, 4 March 2024 20:10 (three weeks ago) link
TBH I don't know which mix I have! I've a (probably 1980s) UK vinyl edition and a 2001 CD version from the Golden Road boxset. I must read the notes to the latter again.
― Duke, Monday, 4 March 2024 20:47 (three weeks ago) link
^^Those are probably both the Remix (the 2001 CD definitely is).
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 4 March 2024 20:53 (three weeks ago) link
Wiki:
Second-guessing the end results, Garcia and Lesh went back in the studio in 1971 to remix the album, removing many parts present on the original release, including a choir singing on "Mountains of the Moon", many difficult-to-identify sounds on "What's Become of the Baby", and an a cappella ending for "Doin' that Rag," dropped for an earlier fadeout. The remix also uses different vocal takes on some songs, most noticeably "Dupree's Diamond Blues." The result, with the same catalog number (WS1790) and perhaps brighter sound, but with much of the original's experimental character removed, can be identified by the "Remixed September, 1971" legend on the back cover. Mistakenly, the song timings on the first (1987) CD release refer to the original mix, not the remix (varying most significantly on "Doin' that Rag," which was edited from 5:15 to 4:41, and "China Cat Sunflower," edited from 4:15 to 3:40).The original mix was later planned for CD release, but the original master tapes could not be located. When the masters were finally found, years later, they were used for The Warner Bros. Studio Albums vinyl box set, marking the first time the 1969 mix has been available since the 1971 remix replaced it, in 1972. The 2013 high definition remastering for download uses the remixed version – even though promotion related to this release declared "produced from the original analog master tapes in 2013, using the original album mixes".An edit of the track "Doin' that Rag" was released on the Warner/Reprise Loss Leaders compilation The 1969 Warner/Reprise Record Show. Since this set stayed in print through the late 1970s, it provided a sample of the original mix for some years after the full album was only available in the remixed version.---On June 7, 2019 Rhino Records released the "50th Anniversary Deluxe Edition" of Aoxomoxoa. Disc one contains both mixes of the album – the one from 1969 and the one from 1971. Disc two contains previously unreleased live tracks from the Avalon Ballroom in San Francisco, recorded on January 24–26, 1969.
The original mix was later planned for CD release, but the original master tapes could not be located. When the masters were finally found, years later, they were used for The Warner Bros. Studio Albums vinyl box set, marking the first time the 1969 mix has been available since the 1971 remix replaced it, in 1972. The 2013 high definition remastering for download uses the remixed version – even though promotion related to this release declared "produced from the original analog master tapes in 2013, using the original album mixes".
An edit of the track "Doin' that Rag" was released on the Warner/Reprise Loss Leaders compilation The 1969 Warner/Reprise Record Show. Since this set stayed in print through the late 1970s, it provided a sample of the original mix for some years after the full album was only available in the remixed version.
---
On June 7, 2019 Rhino Records released the "50th Anniversary Deluxe Edition" of Aoxomoxoa. Disc one contains both mixes of the album – the one from 1969 and the one from 1971. Disc two contains previously unreleased live tracks from the Avalon Ballroom in San Francisco, recorded on January 24–26, 1969.
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 4 March 2024 20:56 (three weeks ago) link
Yes. Going by the outro to Doin' That Rag, it seems both my versions are the 71 remix. So I've never heard the 69 mix. I must rectify that.
― Duke, Monday, 4 March 2024 20:57 (three weeks ago) link
interesting that the Warner/Reprise record show was in print for so long, for just a promo sampler comp
― Reeves Gabrels' Funko Pop (majorairbro), Monday, 4 March 2024 21:25 (three weeks ago) link
the original mix is definitely worth hearing, but I hardly ever listen to it.
a very strange Aoxo outtake:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg10Puy1kYo
― Reeves Gabrels' Funko Pop (majorairbro), Monday, 4 March 2024 21:27 (three weeks ago) link
'Doin that Rag' is such a shambles...like they're still learning it and lurch into the different parts
― calstars, Monday, 4 March 2024 21:31 (three weeks ago) link
also has some rare Jerry falsetto
― calstars, Monday, 4 March 2024 21:34 (three weeks ago) link
still surprises me when i remember members of the Dead put in session work for David Crosby's "If I Could Only Remember My Name." That pedal steel work Jerry puts in for "Laughing" is fantastic. "What Are Their Names" is such a wild tune to come out of a Crosby, Neil Young and the Dead composition.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Tuesday, 5 March 2024 19:08 (three weeks ago) link
this is what i'm talking about when i talk about how much i love the one drummer approach. i much prefer it. so good! well, they had the right one drummer for it. that helps. i mean i get that the mickey/bill combo is part of the mythos...and before 1972 i feel like i enjoy it more? i dunno. anyway, this is a really good show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtsB3lgvN5w
― scott seward, Thursday, 7 March 2024 13:44 (three weeks ago) link
how many 60s and 70s bands wish that they had ONE show with the sound quality of that one above that they could listen to now. kinda crazy really.
― scott seward, Thursday, 7 March 2024 13:54 (three weeks ago) link
(that set is really down-home. nothing out or crazy long. old-fashioned.)
― scott seward, Thursday, 7 March 2024 14:01 (three weeks ago) link
many difficult-to-identify sounds on "What's Become of the Baby"
all-time wiki writing tbh
― Kate (rushomancy), Thursday, 7 March 2024 14:14 (three weeks ago) link
The uncontroversial part of my take is that I agree with Scott, one drummer Dead before the hiatus in '75 was peak Dead. Kreutzmann was a better drummer and allowed the Dead to turn on a dime in the jazzier years.
The somewhat controversial part of my take is that the Dead would have been a far less interesting band in the '80s and '90s without Mickey back in the fold. Mickey was a worse drummer, but I think he was often the main one still pulling the psychedelic thread in the later years. "Drums > Space" was not everyone's cup of tea, but in those later years it was sometimes the only moment in the show where they dipped a toe in those cosmic waters.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 7 March 2024 14:49 (three weeks ago) link
i do agree with all that. having said that, i don't listen to 80s and 90s Dead much unless someone tells me its a truly great show.
― scott seward, Thursday, 7 March 2024 15:25 (three weeks ago) link
dual drummer arrangement in the 70s lost all the ferocity they had in the late 60s. bludgeoning is not a word i'd often use for the dead but some of those 'other ones' are gnarly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE66xE2bk5M
however, most all drum 'solos' or features or whatever, first nine minutes of this included, are dire
― global tetrahedron, Thursday, 7 March 2024 18:56 (three weeks ago) link
again, without a net, ffs
― brimstead, Thursday, 7 March 2024 18:57 (three weeks ago) link
that's what happens when you try to play triplets with four hands
― calstars, Thursday, 7 March 2024 19:45 (three weeks ago) link
Europe 72 is among my favorite dead, and I also never felt like Mickey added much tbh. I mean sometimes he does, but a lot of my favorite stuff is one drummer.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 March 2024 20:08 (three weeks ago) link
there are euro 1972 shows where BK gives krautrock drummers a run for their money!
― scott seward, Thursday, 7 March 2024 20:17 (three weeks ago) link
yes! The dude was a machine. I also sometimes think of krautrock when I hear those shows.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 March 2024 20:18 (three weeks ago) link
Riiight. Nothing evidences precision motorik quite like a double Bill / Mickey fill
― calstars, Thursday, 7 March 2024 21:53 (three weeks ago) link
no we are talking just bill. in europe. in 1972.
― scott seward, Thursday, 7 March 2024 21:55 (three weeks ago) link
do keep up
― I painted my teeth (sleeve), Thursday, 7 March 2024 22:47 (three weeks ago) link
Jon otm. Billy was better but Mickey preserved a lot of the psychedelic mysticism that defined them from the start. The freakin' beam is still a fixture of dead & co drums into space and it's still a bone rattling thrill to hear it live. Also, the best studio recording of playing in the band was on Mickey's solo album Rolling Thunder, horns and all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE7-2Qo9FTc
― BrianB, Thursday, 7 March 2024 23:34 (three weeks ago) link
Listened to the Truckin'>Mind Left Body Jam>Spanish Jam>Wharf Rat on 07/31/74 during a night drive through the country. It's pretty sweet.
― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Friday, 8 March 2024 03:35 (two weeks ago) link
anyone know of any other good instances where they go hard, like the end of sunshine daydream's (1972-08-27) dark star?
― gundam wig (diamonddave85), Saturday, 9 March 2024 03:03 (two weeks ago) link
early "The Other Ones" are the first one that comes to mind. can't name a particular show, unfortunately. i just know they could get pretty gnarly before Weir's vocals hit.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Saturday, 9 March 2024 03:33 (two weeks ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Sx0Li9gQs
― scott seward, Saturday, 9 March 2024 03:37 (two weeks ago) link
I would like to apologize in this public forum to Michael Steven Hartman, aka Mickey Hart, for anything I might have said to disparage his involvement with the GD. I stayed up until 2 AM last night watching the closing of Winterland video and him and Bill are having so much fun together and Mickey is just bashing away like a kid and they sound really cool and the band sounds awesome and Donna's vibe is awesome and I just love hearing them like that and it reminded me of how great they could sound when they all play together in sync. or in Dead sync anyway. and i love that opening 1-2-3 punch of sugar magnolia/scarlet begonias/fire on the mountain and i love that not fade away with john cipollina. Sorry, Mickey!
― scott seward, Saturday, 9 March 2024 12:50 (two weeks ago) link
I’ve written about my love for Dozin’ at the Knick, it was my gateway Dead record. I went to see a local band cover the whole show last night and had so much fun. “Terrapin” delivered all the spacy funky prog goodness.
― Requiem for a Dream: The Musical! (Dan Peterson), Saturday, 9 March 2024 15:52 (two weeks ago) link
someone brought stuff in to trade including cd sets of 12/10/71 fox theatre and june 10 1973 rfk stadium. that is my era. well, i do love the 60s dead too. gonna take them home. feel like 1970 to 1973 dead was the best american folk rock band in the land.
i've never read about the dead's impact around the world. who loved them? where did they hit big with people? were they beloved in japan? south america? they never went to those places. did the krautrockers listen to them? there should be a book about that. maybe there is one.
― scott seward, Sunday, 10 March 2024 17:53 (two weeks ago) link
I think that 6/10/73 show is the longest ever and has part of the Allman Bros sitting in for the third set. It's a fun show.
― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Sunday, 10 March 2024 18:14 (two weeks ago) link
yah i think its 4 discs.
― scott seward, Sunday, 10 March 2024 18:51 (two weeks ago) link
It's 8LPs(!) because they try to avoid splitting the songs.
― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Sunday, 10 March 2024 19:32 (two weeks ago) link
jam much?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtJ8FIWx8og
― scott seward, Wednesday, 27 March 2024 15:42 (yesterday) link
i can't remember if i already posted this here. if i did its worth posting twice. so cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H-CW12fBNA
― scott seward, Wednesday, 27 March 2024 17:10 (yesterday) link