what is the most masculine genre of music?

This reviewer thinks it's extreme metal.

There is no more masculine genre than extreme metal. Death, drone, black, or doom, it's overwhelmingly about aggression and anger, with monstrous vocals growled out by men for men in a manly male ecstasy of hate and testosterone.

At first listen, the latest album from San Francisco black-metal stalwarts Ludicra doesn't seem to buck the trend. "Stagnant Pond," the lead track on The Tenant, opens with a tolling, trudging guitar that suggests funeral bells and vocals that sound, in true metal fashion, like someone's throat giving birth to a swarm of insects. The liner notes tell me that the lyrics are "Be still, remain still / Do not unveil / The stained and marked / Portrait of your soul," but I'll be damned if I could've made that out unaided. Nor, I think, would I ever have guessed that the evil, gravel-voiced singer was a woman.

In fact, two of Ludicra's five members are women: Laurie Sue Shanaman, the vicious lead singer, and Christy Cather, who plays guitar and sings backup. One female band member in extreme metal is unusual; two and you start to think they did it on purpose. Still, it's not completely unprecedented. And the extreme-metal bands that include women tend to have important features in common: First, they sound just like bands that don't include women. And second, they present themselves just like bands that don't include women.

In pop music, unisex is unusual. Hip-hop, for example, includes a ton of women—but most of them are background singers or R & B vocalists making guest appearances. Female MCs often rap about subjects rooted in femaleness: wearing lip gloss, being ultrahot, screwing or not needing to screw guys. Women in hip-hop also tend to be glammed up like Foxy Brown, so you can't miss the important bits—if they dress like Missy Elliot, they come across as deliberately butch. Even in a genre like grunge, which has roots in metal, gender differences remain important—which is why the awesomely guttural early-90s Sub Pop band Dickless named themselves Dickless and wrote songs with names like "The C-Word" and "Saddle Tramp."

It makes sense that gender would matter in pop music, because pop music is obsessed with sex. There are songs about sex, love, losing love, not getting enough sex, betraying the one you love for sex, bonding with your boys over your mutual disrespect for women, and bonding with your sisters to get over those no-good men. Most pop simply couldn't exist without gender differences and the angst and ecstasy that surround them.

Extreme metal, though, is coming from a different place. You can see it just in song titles: Murkrat's "Plague Gestation," Gallhammer's "Endless Nauseous Days," Astarte's "Twist, Nail, Torture," Acrostichon's "Immolation of the Agnostic." The first three bands are all female; the last has a female vocalist. None sings about being a woman and searching for love, or even about being independent and not needing a man—their lyrics are about pain, hate, torture, and defilement. The members of Astarte, a Greek group, bow to market forces by wearing revealing outfits and sultry expressions in their publicity photos, but their music is uncompromising black metal: noisy, raw, and about as sexy as an enraged wolverine being torn apart by industrial machinery. The members of Japan's Gallhammer wear modified corpsepaint and growl like sexless, sluggish behemoths, dragging themselves ineluctably toward the end of days. And the front woman of Dutch group Acrostichon, Corinne van den Brand, sings in a full-on, Hades-scraping, clotted death-metal rumble.

Ludicra are relatively accessible for black metal—they don't do the fucked-up ambience of Xasthur, the fucked-up folk weirdness of Drudkh, or the straight-up fury of Darkthrone. Like, say, Nachtmystium, they combine blackness with touches of more mainstream rock—giving them a swagger that actually makes them sound fiercer than many of their peers. "In Stable" is a monster of a song, bordering on thrash-metal speed, with jackhammer martial drumming, a thick old-school guitar riff, and Shanaman screaming as if the words were fracturing her jaw. "Clean White Void" is another rocker, with an actually catchy chorus, proggy syncopations, and a complicated song structure—a little like High on Fire, if High on Fire were meaner and grimier and didn't suck. "Truth Won't Set You Free" starts with that metal staple, the quasi-classical acoustic intro, then heads into pure blackness with racing, monotonous drums, repetitive guitars, and desperate shrieking; the conclusion downshifts into lovely, chiming, slow-pan-across-the-fjords doom. "The Tenant" makes effective use of spookily evocative female background vocals that actually sound like female vocals—which sets Ludicra apart from male-only black-metal bands, or at least from the ones that don't use synthesized female vocals in similar ways.

The fact that when the women in Ludicra sound like women they're essentially being used to replace a synthesizer is emblematic of how gender works in extreme metal. Which is to say, it doesn't work at all. Extreme metal doesn't care about men and women. It barely cares about bodies. Johnny Rotten howls "I'm not an animal!" and extreme metal responds with a louder and even more hideous howl of indifference. Misanthropy, to say nothing of misogyny, is for the living. Extreme metal's aggression may sound male on the surface, but a corpse isn't masculine even if it has a penis. Extreme metal seeks a monstrous oblivion; it uses unrelenting noise to destroy not just the dying animal but also the angel fastened to it. "Teach me to mask the spirit . . . The farce of human bonds / Of dignity and respect," Shanaman howls. "Let me be the clean white void / The slate . . . the unwritten." You don't have genitals when you're a mask upon a void.

That's not to say gender is completely inconsequential in the metal scene. I have no doubt that women in extreme metal have to deal with sexism. Satanists aren't much for PC, and though most metalheads aren't satanists, they're still guys. And of course people notice when you've got women in the band; most profiles of Ludicra go out of the way to mention it. Still, I can't think of another genre in which it matters so little. No one thinks of Astarte or Gallhammer or Ludicra as less authentically metal than bands without women in them. They're as technically accomplished as men; they spit bile like men; their lyrics and album covers are for the most part just as bleak and sexless as those created exclusively by men. They sound the same. For all intents and purposes, they are the same. The feminist egalitarian ideal has been achieved not in gynocentric folk or riot-grrrl punk but in the almost entirely male world of extreme metal, where the war of the sexes, like identity and love and hope, disappears in a blank roar of loathing and degradation.

What says ILM?

keep thinking they're talking about Ludacris

Done this before?

oh and that came from Misogyny Is for the Living How extreme metal makes gender irrelevant By Noah Berlatsky

Do you think "extreme metal" is misogynist? Or any other form of music is?

tom i couldnt find a thread. And even if there is one, it wont be about extreme metal & misogyny.

But this isn't just about metal anyhoo.

Just wondered, thought I remembered one

I'm writing about masculinity and death metal a lot these days.

So the review is kinda making a Deleuzian move here- in extreme metal, you sort of die to your gendered self by "becoming animal" and so there's something about embodiment itself in the lyrical subject matter and performance styles of extreme metal that is somehow either pre-gender (you aren't that high up on the chain of being to worry about such things) or post-gender (it no longer matters).

Maybe the question it begs is: what is the relationship of the supposed "sexlessness" of a genre to its obsession with very black-n-white representations of polar oppositions between absolute power and total powerlessness? How is that *not* gendered?

Tom it's quite possible but it could be named anything making it impossible to search.

Mordy is that for a thesis?

Isn't the reviewer saying that "extreme metal" is asexual rather than masculine? By which he means that metal doesn't talk about sex much? If so, then you could say the same about electronic genres (dubstep/minimal/IDM/etc) where the artist doesn't present her/himself and nothing in the music or associated packaging is gendered in any way.

http://simpsonitos.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/91_butchered_at_birth1.jpg
is it true of Death Metal also? arguably, this Cannibal Corpse cover eviscerates gender itself in favor of the sexlessness of the skeleton (er, except usually you can identify the sexes of skeletons by checking out the hips)

Drew I think the guy is really writing about extreme metal being sexless rather than misogynist but i think hes a bit mixed up tbh.
xp

man that article is either total trolling or WILDLY misinformed

heh seandalai said it much better than I did (funnily enough a lot of extreme metal guys love IDM, its amazing the amount of metalheads that love aphex,squarepusher etc)

I mean even the goriest death metal has a ring of sad, insular, misunderstood dude either making sense of an icky world, lashing out at it, or testing out its boundaries to piss off the religious right

the most masculine genre of music is New York hardcore, easy.

power electronics

I saw that band Full Blown Choad at Ozzfest and the lead-singer literally dedicated a song to all the "cunts" that fucked him over

gabber always seemed really masculine to me. And funnily enough, sexless too.

whiney w/the 100% truth-bomb in re: NYHC

so much NYHC is about LITERALLY about chest puffing and chest thumping, getting scary tattoos and being STRONG and I WILL BE HEARD

Isn't the reviewer saying that "extreme metal" is asexual rather than masculine? By which he means that metal doesn't talk about sex much?

If he is, he's an asshat

I saw that band Full Blown Choad at Ozzfest and the lead-singer literally dedicated a song to all the "cunts" that fucked him over

In the UK, 'cunts' is a insult that can be (and is) directed at both sexes. Don't know about the US.

In the UK, 'cunts' is a insult that can be (and is) directed at both sexes. Don't know about the US.

this is a whole different discussion but the fact that a term referring to a woman's sex organ now stands in as a general term of abuse doesn't mean that the use of the term isn't misogynist

imo

Yes, that is a whole different discussion!

I saw that band Full Blown Choad at Ozzfest and the lead-singer literally dedicated a song to all the "cunts" that fucked him over

― batlike darkwing cartoonduck (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 1 April 2010 14:33 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is sort of lol cos if this was a British band most people would assume he was talking about guys

xps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Complexity

and dont start a poll about sharon osbourne not knowing it means something else in the US :(

yeah, Im not sure I've ever heard it directed at girls much. However I have heard plenty of girl neds calling guys a cunt.

but yes, that's another discussion.

in the US it's probably like the worst thing to say next to pulling a KKKramer.

can we not have a 700 post discussion on why some words are wildly offensive in the US but not in the jolly old UK and get to the actual discussion here

agreed

so yeah, the macho posturing of NYHC is so much more offensive and misogynist to me than the EC Comics jokey button-pushing of Cannibal Corpse's "Fucked With A Knife" or whatev

gay fascist muscle disco

dj mencap what was that uk chavcore band that had lyrics about stomping their reeboks in faces? had a really stupid chorus that went like stomp stomp kick or something. I think I posted about it once but I forget where.

wow that review in the original post is all over the place

xp TRC at a guess?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=LBU

have the blackout crew been informed?

loooool tiarnan otm

When I saw Ludicra last year, it seemed to me that their female vocalist's gutwrenching howls came from traumatic memories of sexual abuse. I may be totally wrong, but that's the feeling I got. As much as certain musicians like to think themselves as transcending gender, transcending their humanity, or even as sub-human, in the end they're just fucked up animals wailing about their pain.

????

O_o

um

¿¿¿¿

*sharp intake of breath*

in the end, we are fucked up animals

plenty of chicks at the primordial gig i went to see. thing is extreme metal styles are pretty theatrical on the whole, with bands like cradle of filth attracting a large female following (maybe one of the reasons they're generally shunned by "true" metal fans).

When I saw Ludicra last year, it seemed to me that their female vocalist's gutwrenching howls came from traumatic memories of sexual abuse. I may be totally wrong, but that's the feeling I got.

you sort of need more than "that's the feeling I got" for something like this i.e. lyrics or backstory

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000C0F9H.jpg

while we were on tour in Italy our Italian sound-man taught us a few Italian phrases that are relevant to this thread- a show that is all dudes in the audience with no women is a "foresta di cazzi" (a forest of cocks- like our "sausage party" only more pungent) and, worse, there is an italian phrase which I've only heard, not seen spelled, so forgive the bad transliteration here, but any genre of music which Italians regard as "only of interest to men, repellent to women" is called "scaccia-figa" (loosely translates to "pussy-scraping" music). They seemed to think that technical math-rock and the proggier side of metal and harsh noise was scaccia-figa, but I can say from Baltimore shows at least that I see plenty of women at metal and noise shows. Maybe this is more of an issue in some places than others.

Like running your fingernails along a chalkboard made of pussy. Fuck, that's a harsh image. Thanks, twiceboiled.

yikes

btw I know this is incorrect but someone mentioned Atari Teenage Riot on another thread and I was all YES THEY BELONG HERE

although I guess that isn't really "masculine" music as much as it is "fuck you I am alive" music

while discussing his 90's poll ballot by email, h3lg3son spake of ATR as his own peer group's analogue for The Prodigy, who might themselves be worthy of nomination (quite a few female fans though, SMBU or no)

n.b. neither band was voted for, wd just like to make that clear

http://www.stereokiller.com/images/tsunamifest.jpg

and its at the Polish club so it really will be a sausage fest.

the OG post is really interesting but makes me wonder - why are violence and aggression considered 'masculine' traits

...

isn't jessica harvell from phoenixville? i've actually been there and it is quite the town.

jaymc would know.

the OG post is really interesting but makes me wonder - why are violence and aggression considered 'masculine' traits

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Testosterone.svg/200px-Testosterone.svg.png

why are violence and aggression considered 'masculine' traits

I think being a fuckin' corndog is a more masculine trait.

And it's not like you never see a chick eatin' a corndog.

http://yosoylachamuca.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/corndog.jpg

ya'll are trippin - have you ever considered that your prejudice is just due to the way your conception of gender has been constructed by society

look inside yourself

RELEASE THE KRAKEN

I am absolutely certain that a combination of biological urge and societal artifact are what cause me to view violence and aggression as masculine traits.

Contrary to what has been postulated in outdated studies and by certain sections of the media, aggressive behaviour is not typically seen in hypogonadal men who have their testosterone replaced adequately to the eugonadal/normal range. In fact, aggressive behaviour has been associated with hypogonadism and low testosterone levels and it would seem as though supraphysiological and low levels of testosterone and hypogonadism cause mood disorders and aggressive behaviour, with eugondal/normal testosterone levels being important for mental well-being.

"news-medical.net"

seems like a reliable website!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life/spirituality/self-help/Testosterone-leads-to-fairness-not-aggression/articleshow/5318244.cms

xpost

premiere website for advice to pharmacists iirc

A low testosterone level can cause a lot of problems in men, particularly in terms of sexual performance. Essentially, testosterone is the hormone that helps fuel a man's sex drive. Low levels can affect mood, sexual desire, and physical and sexual performance.

http://www.testosteroneformula.com/

http://www.testosteroneformula.com/assets/images/testarol_header.jpg

A low hamburger level can cause a lot of problems in men, particularly in terms of sexual performance. Essentially, hamburger is the hormone that helps fuel a man's sex drive. Low levels can affect mood, sexual desire, and physical and sexual performance.

fairness: a scientifically proven masculine trait

BTW THE ANSWER IS RIOT GRRL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhqaBgGiqrc

http://gentlebear.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/pfs.jpg

Moreover the study shows that the popular wisdom that the hormone causes aggression is apparently deeply entrenched: those test subjects who believed they had received the testosterone compound and not the placebo stood out with their conspicuously unfair offers. It is possible that these persons exploited the popular wisdom to legitimate their unfair actions.

gender roles be gettin' entrenched

http://www.zible.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/px_milkman_phranc.jpg

http://www.somanyrecordssolittletime.com/wp-content/uploads/phranc-ps.jpg

what this thread needed was a scott seward image bomb

it's ilx's periodic purgative

try scott seward today--available at your local chemist!

http://motorcycleaupairboy.com/gallery/data/media/11/withphranc.jpg

image bombers should be banned

http://ferron.com/ferron.jpg

why is it that artificial/social constructs have such a negative connotation w/in the context of sociology? lines like "gender is a social construct" and "race is a social construct" get trotted out as evidence that gender and race relations are deeply fucked and deeply out of step with the natural order of things. but if our society ever manages to completely redefine gender and race roles so that they have nothing to do with oppression and privilege, won't these new roles be just as artificial and just as constructed as they once were?

it seems like a lot of feminists and anti-racists (including me, a lot of the time) maintain that if only humanity were freed from those pesky rules of social conduct, it would naturally veer toward egalitarianism ...which is a pretty shaky position to hold, seeing as no one has the slightest idea what a "natural," pre-social human condition would look like. it's far safer, imo, to assume that race and gender relations will always be 99% socially constructed no matter how oppressive or enlightened they may become.

― broa super (unregistered), Friday, April 2, 2010 12:32 AM (16 hours ago

i don't really think ppl say any of that. I mean i think its impossible to say what the natural order of things really is because it is impossible to just step outside of society/culture or scientifically remove its influence and see what's left. I think what I mean at least is that the society that we have built out of these constituent parts has consistently engendered inequality, racism, domination, you know a lot of bad shit. Instead of casting off the oppression of gender roles i think whats called for is a recasting of those roles in a way that is more conducive to equality/egalitarianism etc. In this way its helpful to understand gender constructs as being constructs because it does not fall back on nature to give legitimacy to patriarchy/racism/homophobia etc.

in summary:
http://www.testosteroneformula.com/assets/images/testarol_header.jpg

plax, you are killing it here and it is awesome.

seconded, yeah. saying "social construct" isn't a criticism of something being unnatural -- it's more like opening a window. once you recognize that something is constructed, then you have the option of trying to re-construct it in a way that's fairer or less hurtful or offers people more freedom.

(i.e., instead of going "but that's just the way it is and you can't expect us not to do/believe these things!")

whoa how did we get this far in the thread without discussing the idea that some men are afflicted with "hypergonadism"?

oh medicine, your power to amuse will never cease

that was totally my bad, I was going to bring that up but got sidetracked into being serious due to being totally infuriated by unironic embracing of a pretty disgusting and totally mutable status quo

http://i.imgur.com/lOT7Z.gif

totally^^^^^