Smashing Pumpkins: Fresh Fruit or Rotten Veg?

Classic, full up, full stop. I'm glad I've never had even the slightest opportunity to interact with Billy Corgan in real life, he'd drive me crazy, I figure. But oh man, all that good music. I love it all down to every last strangled squeal in his voice. Refer to these entries in the FT 136 list for more slavering if you really care:

Adore

Siamese Dream

Mellon Collie

I think I liked the Smashing Pumpkins okay with Gish and Siamese Dream because, although they were really just classic rock slightly warmed over, it was updated slightly and had some good associations in my life. I remember listening to Gish fairly often with someone who...well, never mind the details. When Mellon Collie came out, though, it became very clear to me that they were really a band who worshipped at the altar of classic rawk, esp. the bad overwrought and overblown kind, and that's really where I lost interest. When they scaled back on subsequent albums, there really wasn't much good material there, and I couldn't really be bothered to find the good stuff anymore.

But not by much.

Would be classic for Siamese Dream, but dud for Adore, Machina and the fact that they could have edited Mellon Collie down to a single disc brilliancy - and didn't. Also, dud for bad song titles.

I read a great thing in Gina Arnold's book "Kiss This" about how the Bullet With Butterfly Wings video was based around this painting of children trying to get out of being trapped in a coal mine or something, and how incredibly obnoxious it was that Billy Corgan would equate his angst with such horrendous suffering. I liked parts of "Siamese Dream", but I think one album of semi- romantic angst and mediocre prog-Sabbath guitar work is enough. So Dud, for sticking around too long, and for inexplicably blaming their failure on Britney.

'1979' is ok, but not as good as its title. Everything else is excrement.

.. then they started putting out shitty albums. I lost interest after Melon Collie. bloated wank. and his voice became ever-more- hideous. such sludge.. they'll be most useful in that regard for documenting very clearly a band just completely losing their artistic vision and soul. I've only heard 'Machina' once, but it was so lifeless...

that said, I'll list a few of their best rare tracks so that brave souls can attempt to get another perspective on the band. they did have a few obscure b-sides and such that won't likely turn up on any best hits collection. search for these on your favorite music- trading platform ..

* daughter - a rare demo from 1989 or so, just two minutes of ethereal guitar & singing

* siamese dream - the song, not the album. very lo-fi, scratchy acid folk piece

* pulseczar - feedback-drenched psychedelia. slightly twee, too.

* their cover of Depeche Mode's 'Never Let Me Down Again' - better than the original. very light touch, just guitar, bass, drums and for once not the 'soundwall' approach ... brings you up to an imagined peak, then lets you down ..

* their cover of 'Dancing in the Moonlight' - soft, acoustic. if you don't mind his voice, this is a great song.

* obscured - a slow, drifting rock song. spacey, but subdued. nice.

* smiley - slow, simple pop. his voice on the deep end for once.

* Eye - darkwave/synthpop song from the Lost Highway soundtrack, great if you like that sort of thing

* the Moby remix of '1979' - doesn't contain anything of the original song except for that skipping vocal 'tweee-ee' effect super- slowed down. the actual music itself isn't much like Moby's usual fare, especially not like 'Play' -- imagine if the Boards of Canada had a VERY bad trip. I love this song.

* Drown -- not the most rare Pumpkins song, it was on the Reality Bites soundtrack. 3 or so minutes of rock, then 4 of the best kind of guitar feedback drone, yumm..

* Starla - only if you're into guitar wankery. Corgan goes off for about 5 minutes, and most of it is actually pretty entertaining, if not exactly Fennesz..

gish, '89 demos, set the ray to jerry, cherry, obscured: classic i believe i speak for god album(s): dud everything else: i listened to it too much when i was 15

So, continuuing with my theory, if one were to just sort of cut and re-record, you'd probably have about two good albums out of all the b-sides, machina 1 & 2, and adore stuff out there, post-melon collie. Which is what, eight albums (including a double album) total? In less than 8 years? Sounds classic to me.

Or I could just say I like 1979 and a few of their other songs to sound hip.

Gish and Pisces Iscariot are also grate, and MCIS and Adore have a few nice songs (might as well join in on the "1979" praise here). Haven't heard anything off of Machina but I have a feeling I don't want to ;)

I'm afraid I must object--Moby's remix is horribly dull. It's essentially just Billy's vocals over a repetitive electro beat (and he doesn't even go to any lengths to actually change the order of the verses). I'm a big fan of Moby's early work, but I can't stand to listen to this.

Half-Classic/Half-Dud. And why wasn't "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" or whatever that Last-Pumpkins-Video-In-Pants Batman song was called on Greatest Hits?

And this is a bad thing? Excuse me, I have to listen to some Muslimgauze now.

And why wasn't "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" or whatever that Last-Pumpkins-Video-In-Pants Batman song was called on Greatest Hits?

I think everyone involved with that film removed it from their resume.

But the real reason I post here is merely to drop this bomb you can find posted at http://www.billycorgan.com/

You know that beatles song 'I'm so tired, I haven't slept a wink....'? I'm having one of those weeks...I just got 2 new kittens, brothers and sisters, named miss sami and mister thom cat...they are the best of friends, which is wonderful, but being young, they are into everything, including some things I didn't know you could get into...mister thom also seems to want to wake me up at 5am to say hello...well, the music for the rock and roll record is going really swell, just starting to get into a groove writing some songs...predominately focusing on melodies right now, leaving the words for a bit further down the road, which is unusual, but necessary...in the months to come, I am going to share some things with you that you have never heard me say...that doesn't mean I'm rewriting history, that means that I'm going to tell you the truth about who I am and what I believe in my heart...a lot of things that I have said thru the years seemed confusing, like I was hiding somethin!g, and often times I was...'why', you might ask? Many times I hid things to protect my band mates...for example, its been almost 4 years since I went on my friend tami's radio show and announced that the pumpkins were breaking up...that day, when she asked why we were breaking up, I said something silly like 'I'm tired of fighting britney blah blah'...and it went on to be widely quoted, as if I was breaking up my love, my band, because of some pop star...13 years of my life, and you know, let's pack it in cause their teeth are whiter...by saying that, I was seen as someone who was crying foul, taking his ball, and going home...which was sad cause it wans't true at all...The truth of the matter is is that james iha broke up the smashing pumpkins...not me, not jimmy, but james...did it help that d'arcy was fired for being a mean spirited drug addict, who refused to get help? No, that didn't help keep the band together, not at all...it made it very hard to go on, but we soldier! ed thru it even though our hearts were broken...But d'arcy didn't break up the band, we didn't let her...and jimmy didn't want to break up the band, not at that time...and I would have gone on forever...the smashing pumpkins were essentially my entire life...a dream I still believe in...many friends at that time suggested letting james leave, so jimmy and I could continue on under the name...but I was too loyal to the man I had started the whole thing with, and I protected him until the very end...right up until the last show on dec 2, 2000, when he thanked d'arcy on stage, but not the 2 men standing next to him...and I was loyal until he left the metro without even saying goodbye, or an 'its been great boys!', or a simple 'I love you' to us...no, james iha left the metro that night without saying goodbye to the 2 people he had won and lost and traveled the world with...so I won't be protecting him anymore...and I won't be protecting a whole lot of other people anymore...not because I don't love them (I do!!) but because ! I love myself too...I want to say one more thing, and that is I appreciate you reading this...+I want to remind you that I love you...God has given me the strength to say that to you, and I hope that you don't hide who you are...does it make me sad that I have hid myself all these years? No, it was what I had to do to survive, or at least what I 'thought' I needed to do...but surviving is not enough...we all deserve to flourish, and to know happiness and joy...that is my new dream...the smashing pumpkins gave me that, and I am eternally grateful...especially to those that shared in the dream with me...even if you bought just one cd, or came to a show, you gave us that chance...we thank you for that...even if we don't always know how to show it...be well!! William

Wow.

So, best of a bad lot, then. Neither classic nor dud. Good.

Say! Anybody heard that one album they did where they leaked it onto the Internet for free simply to piss off their record company?

i did not feel that a cd release on a major label that i was out there trying to hawk with a bunch of immoral band mates (that does not include jimmy, by the way...he is one of best men i know) was a place to talk about the deepest of issues...no, the internet is!!!

In other news, he's now gone public with an email address. Guess who's gonna have 1000+ emails by Sunday?

01. Melon Collie And The Infinite Sadness
02. Tonight, Tonight
03. Jellybelly
04. Here Is No Why
05. Bullet With Butterfly Wings
06. Where Boys Fear To Tread
07. Thirty-Three
08. 1979
09. Thru The Eyes Of Ruby
10. We Only Come Out At Night
11. Beautiful
12. Lily
13. By Starlight
14. Farewell And Goodnight

Truth be told, I could live without "Tonight" and "Thirty-Three" -
I guess I included them out of some obligation to remain in the
realm of the remotely possible. Billy is rather proud of these
songs, I highly doubt he would have dispensed them.

The ten additional songs, which will be spread across five 7-inch singles, were revealed in the fourth episode of Corgan's Thirty-Three podcast to be the shelved Shiny and Oh So Bright Vol. 3 album.

really don’t care about any new stuff… unless bradnelson or somebody made a nice post-machina playlist

i could give this a shot. bummer that the zeitgeist-era material is still wholly absent from streaming. way more mad about that personally

billy's song titles keep getting better

I have absolutely no doubt that Billy is overstating the quality of the songs, just think it's funny that fans have been practically begging for more guitar-heavy stuff from them and he's burying it like that.

also i thought cyr was supposed to be shiny and oh so bright vols. 2 & 3? is it just volume 2 now? is volume 2 some other shelved project?

seems bonkers to me that smashee pumpkee are the only big band of the grunge era whose key albums are currently unavailable on vinyl. lot of money being left on the table there imo.

i would imagine there's probably some dispute between corgan and the label. how long has the machina reissue/reimagining been in the works for now lol

Wow, had ‘t realised what old Caroline repressings of SD goes for these days. People hate the 2011 reissue apparently

The reworked artwork of the 2011 versions sucks. Billy strikes again.

how long has the machina reissue/reimagining been in the works for now lol

Literally the last thing I ever need from the guy (unless somehow the Zwan vault fully opens, which I very much doubt) and still not here!

apparently the machina reissue was finished early last year, but it's up to universal to decide when to release it. the lack of any vinyl reissues for the 90s albums is also apparently universal's fault - they're not interested in using their limited vinyl production capacity for those & would rather focus on pressing new albums instead.

Why are people supposed to be excited about Corgan completing a three-album "rock opera" when he has trouble sustaining and conveying a narrative over the course of a single song?

i don't think anyone is particularly excited about atum and i would be genuinely surprised if it has any discernable narrative

He, at least, presumably considered it a selling point!

1. "Simmatar"
2. "Magdalena"
3. "Saffron"
4. "Zope"
5. "Huzzah!"
6. "Automaton"
7. "MaryQ"
8. "Burr"
9. "Excelsior"
10. "Necromance"

i'm sure we're all stoked to hear "huzzah!"

― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Friday, April 14, 2023 8:48 AM (four weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

had the opportunity to hear a low quality vinyl rip of this via slsk. it is... describing it as the psychedelic guitar-driven pumpkins record that fans want is a bit rich. it's not even that guitar-driven. it kinda sounds like modern day pumpkins cosplaying as jellyfish (and not doing a very good job of it)

anyway looking forward to listening to atum the whole way through ha ha ha

I like this week's Pitchfork review - it did a good job of balancing the obligatory jabs @ Billy (one line made me laugh out loud) with what seemed like serious attention to the music.

it kinda sounds like modern day pumpkins cosplaying as jellyfish (and not doing a very good job of it)

this still sounds like an improvement from a lot of post-reunion pumpkins though lol

I recently started listening to Bandsplain and the Pumpkins episode is really good. Acknowledges all the great stuff and is more patient with some of the later material than I am. It works to understand Billy and not just make fun of him, although there’s some of that too. I had no idea what a bummer his home life was as a kid.

I have no interest in anything new that he does but I keep up for old times sake.

I recently started listening to Bandsplain and the Pumpkins episode is really good. Acknowledges all the great stuff and is more patient with some of the later material than I am. It works to understand Billy and not just make fun of him, although there’s some of that too. I had no idea what a bummer his home life was as a kid.

I have no interest in anything new that he does but I keep up for old times sake.

*sounds like it would be, i haven't bothered to track down a copy of it and probably won't

i'm listening to atum the whole way through right now and it is so much better than that psychedelic record

act one much better than i remembered. the lyrics and production are ridiculous and i admit i have more tolerance for synth-pop billy than most but a bunch of genuinely cool melodies are anchoring this thing

somehow missed the backing meows in "moss" the first time i heard it lol

"every morning" is totally like billy telling himself he's gonna work himself back into that "set the ray to jerry" space and i think it's pretty successful

oh i had totally forgotten that it then turns into a celestial new order song

best pumpkins song since machina, maybe even adore

i wouldn't take it over the better tracks on machina but it's much better than most post-machina tracks yeah

just a little frustrating because if new order had written it there'd be at least one more synth part or something, it's just a little bit empty?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsN5bH-gRjI

act three rules lol

all right i've already finished my reduction

1. atum
2. that which animates the spirit
3. the good in goodbye
4. hooligan
5. the canary trainer
6. cenotaph
7. steps in time
8. in lieu of failure
9. harmageddon
10. pacer
11. the culling
12. every morning
13. avalanche

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/28sknca2WekASmbgJdTg1y?si=d84f356672314f07

^^^ this album rules, there are arguments for me cutting more bc it's 56 minutes long but most of the classic pumpkins albums sail past 50 so whatever, wanted to give this a proper arc and make the sequence feel intentional and atmospheric (the full album sequence is... pretty arbitrary)

genuinely surprised at how much i like the whole thing tho

I listened to the new Smashing Pumpkins record. It's like Corgan decided to make all four Kiss solo records and all of them sound like the one made by Peter Criss.

— Brian O'Neill (@NYC__Native) May 7, 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzwOwzGtiZw

Ladies and gentlemen, this just happened. Smashing Pumpkins’ Billy Corgan singing about Bozo sidekick Wizzo the Wizard alongside a Wizzo lookalike pic.twitter.com/a0n9ukYdqO

— Mark Guess (@markguess) January 1, 2024

the core, the heart music

https://madamezuzus.com/products/siamese-dream-30th-anniversary-cassette-tape-and-candle-box-set

lmao

https://x.com/SmashingPumpkin/status/1743340804368646440?s=20

whoops

pic.twitter.com/9cRmUWMeUj

— The Smashing Pumpkins (@SmashingPumpkin) January 5, 2024

"With notes of subterranean rehearsal spaces..."

Ummm

Someone joked that Stephen Malkmus should audition.

Why is it big music news that the 2024 Smashing Pumpkins are looking for a new third guitar player(?)

because they're making it an open audition along with a janky graphic that was thrown together in 2 minutes on Microsoft Paint? I thought the humor in this situation was readily apparent but you never know with ILX

It’s being reported everywhere (example)

I mean I guess it’s somewhat unusual for a band that still fills large venues (even if they’re decades past their prime) to hold an open audition, but I’m surprised even SP fans would care much about this.

It’s a Smashing Pumpkins thread tbf

Yeah I didn’t mean this thread, but never mind me. (Like former guitarist Jeff Schroeder, I will be watching and listening!)

I have tickets to see them in July, in Gliwice, Poland of all places. Twenty-eight years after my last SP show…

Maybe learn the chords to a few of the songs?

The fuck is Corgan wearing in that photo?

This is one helluva clip…

Jesus Christ that rocks