Smashing Pumpkins: Fresh Fruit or Rotten Veg?

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A unique and versatile group or a bunch of pretentious goths? You decide.

Philip Alderman, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

i liked a couple of tracks per album - not my thing really - not unique or versatile - when billy became fester they got even worse

Geordie Racer, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I am, truly, a pathetic fan. And I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE.

Classic, full up, full stop. I'm glad I've never had even the slightest opportunity to interact with Billy Corgan in real life, he'd drive me crazy, I figure. But oh man, all that good music. I love it all down to every last strangled squeal in his voice. Refer to these entries in the FT 136 list for more slavering if you really care:


Siamese Dream

Mellon Collie

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

That's pathetic, Ned.

I think I liked the Smashing Pumpkins okay with Gish and Siamese Dream because, although they were really just classic rock slightly warmed over, it was updated slightly and had some good associations in my life. I remember listening to Gish fairly often with someone who...well, never mind the details. When Mellon Collie came out, though, it became very clear to me that they were really a band who worshipped at the altar of classic rawk, esp. the bad overwrought and overblown kind, and that's really where I lost interest. When they scaled back on subsequent albums, there really wasn't much good material there, and I couldn't really be bothered to find the good stuff anymore.

Sean Carruthers, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I said I was pathetic. Did I lie? ;-) Check the AMG entries on some of the bootlegs.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I'll use this rare opportunity of not entirely disagreeing with Ned, to say that Siamese Dream is indeed pretty great, and "1979" is one of my favorite songs. The other stuff I can take or leave.

Patrick, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

at least actual rotten vegetables are useful as compost. smashing pumpkins aren't even that.

ethan, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I had a little skirmish on Bitchpork (message board) a few weeks ago in which I defended Billy Corgan and SP from a self-righteous Frank Black fan (yes, of his new album, too--blechhhhh). It's hard for me to separate SP from being a 9th grader and listening to "Siamese Dream" EVERY DAY FOR MONTHS and worshipping it, but nonetheless I put it on a few months ago and it hit hard, real hard. I gave "Mellon Collie" another listen, too, and there's surprisingly little filler. I remember not having the attention span to take it all in at once when it first came out, though. Still, I feel like it's only when you become an anal analyst of music-- worried about being pretentious or uncool, worried about whether Corgan and Co. are "too goth" or something-- that stuff like SP starts to become suspect. I'm sick as hell of worrying about that, so I'm going to say classic. I haven't heard "Adore" or anything after, but based solely on "Siamese Dream" and "Mellon Collie"--absolutely classic. Hmm, I think I'll go listen to them now...

Clarke B., Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Monumental dud. Rotten to the core. What stunned me was how such a slight band got so far. With Gish they all had some kind of individual imput, (more democratic), before Billy, or the record company, got the idea into his head that he was an artist, and turned them from a distinctive sound into a vehicle for his ego. The focus of the music turned to his performance, supporting his every indulgence, which would have been fine if he carried the same gravitas as the sound, or promotional campaign behind him. A case of Emperor's New Clothes, I couldn't understand why so many people didn't notice the disparity between his shallow introspection and their collossal sound. It might have worked with humour or irony but he was deadly serious, and so were his fans (at the time he was compared to Kobain???, and he sounds like he believed it). An embarrassment, I can't even bring myself to admit that 1979 was modest enough to survive. They can't be unique cause they did the same thing over and over, varing the scale. Versatility - the musicians were, but I never heard anything they did outside of the band.

K-reg, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Monstrous dud. 'Gish' I must admit was quite dreamy in a post-Jane's Addiction way. But after that! By Thor, the pretentions, the bald head, the whiny bastard voice, the smug attitude, the lack of tunes. Utterly insignificant.

Omar, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Classic singles band ca. SAD MELLON, and up to "Ava Adore." Never bothered with the albums (uh, so not TOO classic on the singles then). Early stuff dud - Hendrix-styled guitar solos/tones a welcome surprise for an indie-aligned band, but still dullsville.

AP, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Oh they are great! Mellon Collie is one of the best albums of all time (almost)...Billy has a big ego, but I admire his sense of melodrama...and for a modern rock band they were quite innovative, and quit just before they became a parody of themselves. Though, I do think they will reform, they are like the modern Grateful Dead, they will still be playing in 2025.

james e l, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

The question is surely irrelevant. Smashing Pumpkins have been SCIENTIFICALLY PROVED to be the WORST BAND IN THE WORLD.

Tom, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I'm not quite sure I'd say they were classic, but _Adore_ is certainly an underrated album. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say it's thebest thing they ever released.

Dan Perry, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Their version of "Dancing In The Moonlight" is at least better than Toploader's.

But not by much.

Would be classic for Siamese Dream, but dud for Adore, Machina and the fact that they could have edited Mellon Collie down to a single disc brilliancy - and didn't. Also, dud for bad song titles.

EdwardO, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Idiots who believed their own hype. Glad they're gone. Dud.

alex in nyc, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Despite all my rage, my solo album will be "new age".

Billy Corgan, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Another pure classic. Siamese Dream is still up in my top 10 favourite albums of all time, and Cherub Rock is surely one of the greatest full on rock songs ever written, I saw them on the Siamese Dream tour in Liverpool and it was only my second ever gig, but one of my favourites. I think their output went downhill slightly after Mellon Collie...(which has to be one of the only double albums, along with Physical Graffiti, to have virtually no filler material) but Adore and Machina are still 100% better than any other so-called hard rock band have put out. I just hope they get back together soon.

achilles_last_stand, Saturday, 12 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Bwah hah hah! No filler material! Please stop, I can't breathe.

I read a great thing in Gina Arnold's book "Kiss This" about how the Bullet With Butterfly Wings video was based around this painting of children trying to get out of being trapped in a coal mine or something, and how incredibly obnoxious it was that Billy Corgan would equate his angst with such horrendous suffering. I liked parts of "Siamese Dream", but I think one album of semi- romantic angst and mediocre prog-Sabbath guitar work is enough. So Dud, for sticking around too long, and for inexplicably blaming their failure on Britney.

Dave M., Saturday, 12 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

five months pass...
I would have to say "a unique and versatile group" in reference to earlier material. Up to and including Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness I enjoyed Smashing Pumpkins. It's a non-intrusive kind of music that can't exactly fit into a genre. I saw a decline happening prior to the release of Adore. Then after hearing the odd attempt at fitting into a genre, I went back to MC&IS. With Machina I saw no comeback, only a further descent into doomed stardom. Machina II, however, was a very unique statement, very fitting for Smashing Pumpkins. All in all I couldn't say Billy Corgan and crew are pretentious goths. They're just genre-less artists being pushed around by the music industry.

James Hunyar, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Great big fat bloated DUD. 'Gish' did posess a mildly pleasing hazy neo-psychedelic sheen, unlike the flatulent rock histrionics that followed. I walked out of a 'Siamese Dream' gig feeling slightly nauseous at being exposed to so much smug mastubatory guitar- soloing.

stevo, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

They weren't even the best band whose name was of the form Smashing [fruit] in 1991.

'1979' is ok, but not as good as its title. Everything else is excrement.

Michael Jones, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

a bit of both. I'm another for whom the Pumpkins were a favorite band in high school .. 'Siamese Dream' is still an excellent rock album, Billy Corgan's one successful opus .. still sounds great today. thick, ridiculously beefy guitars, perfect mix of rawking out and sensitive effeminacy .. still very much intending to be rock, but still with a glance at the less formulaic dimensions, 'Loveless' in particular .. classic as one of those 'diary' albums for yr typical emotional high school kid. sounds cheesy, but "saved my life!"

.. then they started putting out shitty albums. I lost interest after Melon Collie. bloated wank. and his voice became ever-more- hideous. such sludge.. they'll be most useful in that regard for documenting very clearly a band just completely losing their artistic vision and soul. I've only heard 'Machina' once, but it was so lifeless...

that said, I'll list a few of their best rare tracks so that brave souls can attempt to get another perspective on the band. they did have a few obscure b-sides and such that won't likely turn up on any best hits collection. search for these on your favorite music- trading platform ..

* daughter - a rare demo from 1989 or so, just two minutes of ethereal guitar & singing

* siamese dream - the song, not the album. very lo-fi, scratchy acid folk piece

* pulseczar - feedback-drenched psychedelia. slightly twee, too.

* their cover of Depeche Mode's 'Never Let Me Down Again' - better than the original. very light touch, just guitar, bass, drums and for once not the 'soundwall' approach ... brings you up to an imagined peak, then lets you down ..

* their cover of 'Dancing in the Moonlight' - soft, acoustic. if you don't mind his voice, this is a great song.

* obscured - a slow, drifting rock song. spacey, but subdued. nice.

* smiley - slow, simple pop. his voice on the deep end for once.

* Eye - darkwave/synthpop song from the Lost Highway soundtrack, great if you like that sort of thing

* the Moby remix of '1979' - doesn't contain anything of the original song except for that skipping vocal 'tweee-ee' effect super- slowed down. the actual music itself isn't much like Moby's usual fare, especially not like 'Play' -- imagine if the Boards of Canada had a VERY bad trip. I love this song.

* Drown -- not the most rare Pumpkins song, it was on the Reality Bites soundtrack. 3 or so minutes of rock, then 4 of the best kind of guitar feedback drone, yumm..

* Starla - only if you're into guitar wankery. Corgan goes off for about 5 minutes, and most of it is actually pretty entertaining, if not exactly Fennesz..

Dare, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

classic or dud" isnt about how much you like a particular group. its about how they enudre, how much they produce, etc. so classic all the way. (yea billys an egomaniac, but so are most rock stars."

chameleon, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

one month passes...
(late, late, late)

gish, '89 demos, set the ray to jerry, cherry, obscured: classic i believe i speak for god album(s): dud everything else: i listened to it too much when i was 15

Johan, Sunday, 25 November 2001 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

"Gish" was amazing. The drumming, the guitars, the voices. A psychedelic milestone. Should be listened to on headphones.
Next and last album I liked was "Mellon Collie". One of the best double albums. More mainstream than Gish and more song-orientated with some ballads but still very good.
All the rest they did is quite mediocre. Corgan's voice alone really turns me down nowadays. Though the song with New Order on the new album is great.

alex in mainhattan, Monday, 26 November 2001 01:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
As is predictable by the whole "love it, hate it" option of "classic/dud", this seems to be a love it or hate it band. I think they were actually quite good, for an alternative rock band, all the way through The Aeroplane Flies High (collection of mellon collie b-sides that were actually pretty swell and stripped down) and that song on the lost highway collection. But the Batman song was cruddy. Adore I didn't buy or listen to at the time, but now that I hear it, I think some of the songwriting is fine, but hurt a bit by the production, which sort of robbed them of their strength, i.e. RAWK POWER. Still, if someone were to cover any of the songs, they'd be classics on par with the earlier material, maybe even better since they cut most of the "wanky guitar solos" that so many people on this board have problems with (honestly, what is this? 1977? I think Corgan's up there with Prince and Hendrix (and maybe that guy in Dinosaur Jr.) in that he can actually make a solo SAY something.)

So, continuuing with my theory, if one were to just sort of cut and re-record, you'd probably have about two good albums out of all the b-sides, machina 1 & 2, and adore stuff out there, post-melon collie. Which is what, eight albums (including a double album) total? In less than 8 years? Sounds classic to me.

Or I could just say I like 1979 and a few of their other songs to sound hip.

sean patrick, Sunday, 2 February 2003 00:54 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Siamese Dream is my favorite album evah. Actually, I probably wouldn't have even bought it if it hadn't been for Ned's song reviews on AMG (of course, this was before I had ever heard of ILx, so I didn't know who he was).. so kudos to you Ned.

Gish and Pisces Iscariot are also grate, and MCIS and Adore have a few nice songs (might as well join in on the "1979" praise here). Haven't heard anything off of Machina but I have a feeling I don't want to ;)

Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:01 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Completely had forgotten I had done those reviews! :-) Thanks!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:32 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

* the Moby remix of '1979' - doesn't contain anything of the original song except for that skipping vocal 'tweee-ee' effect super- slowed down. the actual music itself isn't much like Moby's usual fare, especially not like 'Play' -- imagine if the Boards of Canada had a VERY bad trip. I love this song.

I'm afraid I must object--Moby's remix is horribly dull. It's essentially just Billy's vocals over a repetitive electro beat (and he doesn't even go to any lengths to actually change the order of the verses). I'm a big fan of Moby's early work, but I can't stand to listen to this.

Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:49 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Then again, your description sounds VERY different from the version I've heard; perhaps I mis-downloaded.

Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:50 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I thought these guys would be a classic with me but when I reviewed Greatest Hits for the college radio station here I was shocked by how crappobloaty I found all their singles before "1979" (oh, and "Zero" sucks too). From that one through "The Everlasting Gaze" (I always wished it was called "The Everlasting Gays", like Billy was trying to scare homophobes or something) I dig all their singles. Only album I've got is Adore, which even that I have a hard time getting through all the way (damn songs just loop for eternity, don't they?).

Half-Classic/Half-Dud. And why wasn't "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" or whatever that Last-Pumpkins-Video-In-Pants Batman song was called on Greatest Hits?

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 2 February 2003 23:53 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Putrid, impotent whinging... pretensiously overproduced post-glam. I believe they were Virgin's answer to the equally talentless Mother Love Bone.

gygax!, Monday, 3 February 2003 00:49 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

damn songs just loop for eternity, don't they?

And this is a bad thing? Excuse me, I have to listen to some Muslimgauze now.

And why wasn't "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" or whatever that Last-Pumpkins-Video-In-Pants Batman song was called on Greatest Hits?

I think everyone involved with that film removed it from their resume.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 February 2003 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Gish and Siamese Dream are pretty good. Mellon Colie has some moments. Adore gets no respect. The rest...not so good.

Juan (Juan), Monday, 3 February 2003 01:07 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Adore is saved by "Appels + Oranjes," which is the most perfect synth-pop song EVAH

Curtis Stephens, Monday, 3 February 2003 02:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
TEITBITE omission is b/c of licensing out to Warner Bros. for the film - hence not owned by Virgin.

But the real reason I post here is merely to drop this bomb you can find posted at

You know that beatles song 'I'm so tired, I haven't slept a wink....'? I'm having one of those weeks...I just got 2 new kittens, brothers and sisters, named miss sami and mister thom cat...they are the best of friends, which is wonderful, but being young, they are into everything, including some things I didn't know you could get into...mister thom also seems to want to wake me up at 5am to say hello...well, the music for the rock and roll record is going really swell, just starting to get into a groove writing some songs...predominately focusing on melodies right now, leaving the words for a bit further down the road, which is unusual, but the months to come, I am going to share some things with you that you have never heard me say...that doesn't mean I'm rewriting history, that means that I'm going to tell you the truth about who I am and what I believe in my heart...a lot of things that I have said thru the years seemed confusing, like I was hiding somethin!g, and often times I was...'why', you might ask? Many times I hid things to protect my band mates...for example, its been almost 4 years since I went on my friend tami's radio show and announced that the pumpkins were breaking up...that day, when she asked why we were breaking up, I said something silly like 'I'm tired of fighting britney blah blah'...and it went on to be widely quoted, as if I was breaking up my love, my band, because of some pop star...13 years of my life, and you know, let's pack it in cause their teeth are saying that, I was seen as someone who was crying foul, taking his ball, and going home...which was sad cause it wans't true at all...The truth of the matter is is that james iha broke up the smashing pumpkins...not me, not jimmy, but james...did it help that d'arcy was fired for being a mean spirited drug addict, who refused to get help? No, that didn't help keep the band together, not at made it very hard to go on, but we soldier! ed thru it even though our hearts were broken...But d'arcy didn't break up the band, we didn't let her...and jimmy didn't want to break up the band, not at that time...and I would have gone on forever...the smashing pumpkins were essentially my entire life...a dream I still believe in...many friends at that time suggested letting james leave, so jimmy and I could continue on under the name...but I was too loyal to the man I had started the whole thing with, and I protected him until the very end...right up until the last show on dec 2, 2000, when he thanked d'arcy on stage, but not the 2 men standing next to him...and I was loyal until he left the metro without even saying goodbye, or an 'its been great boys!', or a simple 'I love you' to, james iha left the metro that night without saying goodbye to the 2 people he had won and lost and traveled the world I won't be protecting him anymore...and I won't be protecting a whole lot of other people anymore...not because I don't love them (I do!!) but because ! I love myself too...I want to say one more thing, and that is I appreciate you reading this...+I want to remind you that I love you...God has given me the strength to say that to you, and I hope that you don't hide who you are...does it make me sad that I have hid myself all these years? No, it was what I had to do to survive, or at least what I 'thought' I needed to do...but surviving is not enough...we all deserve to flourish, and to know happiness and joy...that is my new dream...the smashing pumpkins gave me that, and I am eternally grateful...especially to those that shared in the dream with me...even if you bought just one cd, or came to a show, you gave us that chance...we thank you for that...even if we don't always know how to show well!! William


Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:28 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I don't know, man -- I am a huge SP fan, but Corgan sounds like a raving lunatic in that post, and James Iha always seemed pretty normal when I would see him around NYC a few years ago (he was playing with Nathan Larson (ex-Shudder to Think) at places like Brownies).
I mean, fine, maybe the band broke up because Iha left, but maybe Iha had a perfectly legit reason to run for it!
That said, I vote classic on the Pumpkins.

Ben Boyer (Ben Boyer), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:46 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I likes 'em! They got some good stuff. Of course back in the mid-90s when music radio completely SUCKED ASS, it was either the Pumpkins or Candlebox, Offspring, or Bush.

So, best of a bad lot, then. Neither classic nor dud. Good.

Say! Anybody heard that one album they did where they leaked it onto the Internet for free simply to piss off their record company?

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:58 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Did Iha also break up Zwan?

morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:18 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Considering he wasn't in Zwan, that might have been hard.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:23 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Yes, but I'm interested to see if Billy will throw the blame his way all the same.

morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:24 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Actually, reading that over, maybe they were the Bob Mould and Grant Hart of the nineties altrockcracy.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:30 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Okay Pumpkin Experts, James Iha is in A Perfect Circle's touring line up and support when I saw them was the boring Auf Der Meyer.
Are they an item or what?

mei (mei), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:40 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

one month passes...
Corgan in a non-stop bandmate blagging mission from God:

i did not feel that a cd release on a major label that i was out there trying to hawk with a bunch of immoral band mates (that does not include jimmy, by the way...he is one of best men i know) was a place to talk about the deepest of, the internet is!!!

In other news, he's now gone public with an email address. Guess who's gonna have 1000+ emails by Sunday?

Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 27 March 2004 02:23 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

That's referring to Zwan, btw.

Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 27 March 2004 02:24 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Slow motion apocalypse.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 27 March 2004 04:04 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I love the Pumpkins but I cannot stand to read Billy's blog. It just makes me upset.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 27 March 2004 04:14 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

For our mutual entertainment, here's my version of a perfect,
1-disc _Melon Collie And The Infinite Sadness_. You may find
it rather bizarre, since I include a lot of "filler" that I
prefer to the full blown centerpieces:

01. Melon Collie And The Infinite Sadness
02. Tonight, Tonight
03. Jellybelly
04. Here Is No Why
05. Bullet With Butterfly Wings
06. Where Boys Fear To Tread
07. Thirty-Three
08. 1979
09. Thru The Eyes Of Ruby
10. We Only Come Out At Night
11. Beautiful
12. Lily
13. By Starlight
14. Farewell And Goodnight

Truth be told, I could live without "Tonight" and "Thirty-Three" -
I guess I included them out of some obligation to remain in the
realm of the remotely possible. Billy is rather proud of these
songs, I highly doubt he would have dispensed them.

Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Monday, 5 April 2004 00:32 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Wow thirty-three is one of my favorite pumpkins songs!

ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Monday, 5 April 2004 00:36 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

tour is already a disaster, not selling anywhere:

i'm feeling pretty disgusted with Billy lately, mostly re: stuff in the D'arcy interviews. 1) this is a completely cynical cash grab because Bill got himself in a financial hole buying all those wrestling companies 2) he gave D'arcy the runaround and never seriously considered having her on the tour, and didn't even have the basic courtesy of working out an offer 3) even though it's not exactly news, the stories that D'arcy has told have - for the first time - made it hard for me to listen to SP music.

not sure if yall read the outtakes from the interview, but Billy straight up refused to play "Daydream" in the Gish/SD years because fans wanted to hear it so much & he just couldn't stand D'arcy or anyone else getting any attention. the other revelation from these interviews is the extent to which Billy sidelined D'arcy through the original run & how much the fans lost out on because of his petty insecurities. with James, we got what he could give, and as evidenced by his solo work, he was not a repressed talent like George Harrison. we got Jimmy's contributions obviously. but D'arcy recorded backup vocals for almost all of the songs on MCIS only to have Billy cut them at the last second. he wouldn't let her sing. and now all this false positivity on his instagram because he is nervous as fuck, this tour looks like a disaster, and he totally posted that "proposed" song list the day tickets went on sale purely to generate headlines. he asked fans to post and hashtag any favorites he might've missed. AND THEN he goes on instagram the next day and says "whoa whoa whoa, i only asked for 1 or 2 suggestions, not whole setlists, also why did you flood my DMs? you were supposed to hashtag. besides i've been writing setlists for 35 years, I think I've got this." FUCK YOU

I know this might all be so obvious to some of you but the extent to which SP's "abusive household" dynamic and Billy's unrelenting toxicity to everyone that ever cared about him AND his inexplicable disdain for his fans is all becoming clearer and it makes me sick.

flappy bird, Monday, 26 February 2018 18:05 (two months ago) Permalink

I never noticed how much Amanda Knox looks like Billy Corgan before

raise my chicken finger (Willl), Monday, 26 February 2018 19:32 (two months ago) Permalink

I've been listening to Gish again thanks to all these threads and I still love the whole thing, though now "I'm Going Crazy" bugs me because it seems like he tacked that filler on at the end because no way was D'arcy gonna have the last word on his album.

orifex, Monday, 26 February 2018 19:37 (two months ago) Permalink

Reading Billy's instagram has reminded me that he's the type of guy who uses the word "whilst."

Sam Weller, Monday, 26 February 2018 21:04 (two months ago) Permalink

xpost Is that supposed to be the same guitar in every picture? I get the feeling Corgan is the sort to have Fender make him pre-distressed vanity guitars.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 26 February 2018 21:28 (two months ago) Permalink

I think even if D'Arcy were involved this tour would not sell, not least because of the last 10 years of SP but also because of the preceding 6 years and also some of the years before that and also because no one likes Billy Corgan and also because BC doesn't like anyone else (including his fans) and also because the band's heyday was two decades ago and it was a moment.

Counterpoint: when the band fought hard against the city to play Chicago for free and ended up donating 100% of net proceeds of the tour to charity. That was cool.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 26 February 2018 21:36 (two months ago) Permalink

xpost Is that supposed to be the same guitar in every picture? I get the feeling Corgan is the sort to have Fender make him pre-distressed vanity guitars.

Yes it is the same guitar. And no he doesn’t. He has signature Reverend guitars, both are awesome (I work in a music store and got to play one for a few months fairly regularly).

flappy bird, Monday, 26 February 2018 22:20 (two months ago) Permalink

This may be my favorite opening line to an article that I've ever seen in my entire life.

— Matthew D'Ambrosio™ (@drmattdambrosio) February 26, 2018

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 26 February 2018 22:38 (two months ago) Permalink

haha old mpls/st paul 00s indie punk crv member wrote that :)

It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 26 February 2018 23:01 (two months ago) Permalink

ahahahahaha that is the most incredible thing, fuck you Billy

frogbs, Monday, 26 February 2018 23:06 (two months ago) Permalink

that deserves a pulitzer prize

scoff walker (diamonddave85), Monday, 26 February 2018 23:13 (two months ago) Permalink

tempted to buy a ticket tbh

had (crüt), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 02:04 (two months ago) Permalink

luckily they're playing in town so i have one. dont know where. but im not stoked, which sucks. felt really good in late 2017, the solo album was great, the solo show i saw was great, all the press & intimations about a reunion & an emphasis on reestablishing relationships with all members. i remember thinking at the time enjoy this while it lasts

flappy bird, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 02:33 (two months ago) Permalink

tempted to buy a ticket tbh

if ticket prices get slashed AND I hear glowing reports of early shows, maaaaaybe. but only then.

Simon H., Tuesday, 27 February 2018 03:09 (two months ago) Permalink

I still have vague memories of them sounding like shit on the Machina tour when I was 14.

Simon H., Tuesday, 27 February 2018 03:10 (two months ago) Permalink

fully expecting Billy to turn Love Will Tear Us Apart into an unrecognisable 20 minute metal jam every night

ufo, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 04:06 (two months ago) Permalink

no he learned his lesson with Set the Controls in 2008. every cover he’s done since then has been faithful & imo mostly good, especially Fame. Kinda sick of Space Oddity he’s been doing that for 6 years now.

BUT we all know the incredible 20+ min covers of Transmission on the Adore tour. So, who knows.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 04:28 (two months ago) Permalink

BUT we all know the incredible 20+ min covers of Transmission on the Adore tour

oh, of course we do

Haribo Hancock (sic), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 08:19 (two months ago) Permalink

I still have vague memories of them sounding like shit on the Machina tour when I was 14.

― Simon H., Tuesday, February 27, 2018 3:10 AM (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That was the last time I saw them. They were, indeed, shit.

Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 10:49 (two months ago) Permalink

I only saw them once, at Reading '95. I think they were pretty good, although I can't remember a whole lot of it. They'd just followed Green Day and a pretty awful Hole performance so that probably helped.

Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 11:39 (two months ago) Permalink

I saw them in Brixton on the Siamese Dream tour, the show where Billy dressed as a clown, and they were very bad, and I was broken-hearted as I wanted them to be great. Low-point - Billy teases opening notes of Drown, my favourite song, then doesn't play it because we "don't deserve it".

Then I saw them at the London show for the Machina tour, which was pretty good, though I don't remember much.

Then I saw a couple of shows at Metro in Chicago and a promo thing at the Natural History Museum for Zwan in 2003, which were excellent. That was a great band, if murderously unstable.

too notch (stevie), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 11:52 (two months ago) Permalink

I only saw them once, at Reading '95. I think they were pretty good, although I can't remember a whole lot of it.

Wow, I bought a bootleg of that show in '96 for $25, a hefty sum for a 14-year-old. I still listen to it -- that version of "Mayonaise" is my all-time favorite.

Sam Weller, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 12:05 (two months ago) Permalink

I bought this bootleg of the '94 Astoria concert for probably the same amount. The dude in the record store got his special case w/ bootlegs out from underneath the counter. It felt so bad-ass.

Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 12:14 (two months ago) Permalink

I was not a bootleg buyer (mainly because I couldn't afford $25 CDs!) but I had a friend who was, and the record store we went to had a "secret back room"

how's life, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 12:32 (two months ago) Permalink

I just looked up the setlist of the Reading '95 show and I do remember at the time thinking it was picking up a bit around Geek USA, probably because they'd played a few Mellon Collie songs before that and it hadn't come out yet, or I hadn't heard it yet anyway. Mayonaise is one my favourite SP songs so I wish I could say I remembered them playing it, but I don't unfortunately. It's probably on Youtube by now though.

Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 12:39 (two months ago) Permalink

xp Wasn't it a thrill?! 'My' guy actually got busted for selling bootleg cd's. It cost him dearly, and he was out of business a year later.

Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 12:58 (two months ago) Permalink

I saw them twice in 94 & they were bad both times, because Billy kept trying to play too fast and Jimmy would get lost a bit before catching up, and it was a mess. I would not go see them again (and have never been a fan as much as an interested observer)

droit au butt (Euler), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 13:08 (two months ago) Permalink

I know I saw Zwan once, at the Aragon, and I seem to recall it was pretty okay.

I was reading the comments of that AV club twist the knife takedown, and somebody compared Melancholy to Frampton Comes Alive.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 13:11 (two months ago) Permalink

xxp Around '97 the thrill of buying bootlegs at my local shop (the Record Exchange in Lakewood, OH) dimmed with the advent of the internet, as I spent the next few years dealing and trading SP concert cassettes via some SP message board. But boy did I spend too much hard-earned cash on them.

Sam Weller, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 13:24 (two months ago) Permalink

Listessa was the first band mailing list I was on I think, and a spin-off from that, June. That's when the trading started indeed!

Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 13:52 (two months ago) Permalink

oh my God, second shows added in Chicago and Los Angeles!! Act fast!

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 17:18 (two months ago) Permalink


the 1998 cover of Transmission:

flappy bird, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 17:21 (two months ago) Permalink

And they said it couldn't be improved.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 17:41 (two months ago) Permalink

What a flatulent mess

startled macropod (MatthewK), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 20:06 (two months ago) Permalink

great Pearl Jam soundcheck jam cover of "Transmission"

It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 20:22 (two months ago) Permalink

damn fools, fuck a $25 boot, you should have gotten into the CD-R trading scene!!!

brimstead, Friday, 2 March 2018 22:54 (two months ago) Permalink

except all the live boots i traded for were crap except for that pre-siamese dream tower records acoustic set

brimstead, Friday, 2 March 2018 22:54 (two months ago) Permalink

the last 5 tracks on this:

brimstead, Friday, 2 March 2018 22:55 (two months ago) Permalink

11-27-93, i guess it was after SD was released

brimstead, Friday, 2 March 2018 22:56 (two months ago) Permalink

Save yourself $25 here's Mayonaise from Reading 1995:

I'd just turned 19, jesus christ.

Colonel Poo, Friday, 2 March 2018 22:57 (two months ago) Permalink

When I saw the final show at Metro whenever that was they handed out CDs of their first show at Metro. Not sure I ever listened to it, though.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 2 March 2018 22:58 (two months ago) Permalink

1,162 Pumpkins shows on for free:

flappy bird, Friday, 2 March 2018 23:05 (two months ago) Permalink

a far cry from ye ancient unreliable Smashing Pumpkins Audio Archive FTP

brimstead, Friday, 2 March 2018 23:05 (two months ago) Permalink

If you email me negativly about this, expect to get a reply...a nasty one! I am not above flaming anyone that does not respect that hard work and hard currency I have sunk into maintaining the Archive over the past year and a half.

brimstead, Friday, 2 March 2018 23:07 (two months ago) Permalink

damn fools, fuck a $25 boot, you should have gotten into the CD-R trading scene!!!

― brimstead, Friday, March 2, 2018 5:54 PM (twenty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

CD-Rs were still not on the market at that time! I did some tape trading, but once stuff made its way to me, we're talking like 10th generation audience recordings recorded over my sister's copy of Grease.

how's life, Friday, 2 March 2018 23:24 (two months ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...
three weeks pass...

RS: You're a Smashing Pumpkins fan. Thoughts on the D'arcy-free reunion?

JARED LETO: I don't...I didn't even know there was a reunion. Sorry.

flappy bird, Sunday, 15 April 2018 02:57 (one month ago) Permalink

I didn't know Thirty Seconds to Mars was still a going concern.

how's life, Sunday, 15 April 2018 10:49 (one month ago) Permalink

1991/08/17 - I-Beam - San Francisco, CA

Window Paine

Iha: Bob English come on to the stage, Bob English.
Bury Me
Corgan: Danke
Iha: Mr. Bob English, we want you to report to the stage. Please we're begging you, Bob English, come to the stage, thank you. Thank you very much, it's very nice to be here. Toronto again!
Corgan: No way man, San Francisco kicks fucking ass.
Wretzky: He says that to all the girls.
Corgan: But you should hear what I tell the boys.
Iha: Mr. Bob English, get to the stage, get to the stage at any point in time.

flappy bird, Sunday, 29 April 2018 01:42 (three weeks ago) Permalink

"It used to be pleasurable to crank up Zeppelin or Nirvana to 12 in your car. Now everyone would complain – it's so piercing, so bright."

earlnash, Sunday, 29 April 2018 10:50 (three weeks ago) Permalink

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