Appeals court holds that promo CDs can be resold

Because I know you were wondering.

"Once a copyrighted work is freely given, the copyright holder isn't in charge anymore."

I wonder if this principal extend to DRM-protected music downloads.

*would extend

At least this should provide interesting precedent?

The argument is so ridiculous: you send something to someone in the mail, that maybe they didn't even ask for, and yet you claim that person does not own it and you still own it SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU SAID SO (i.e., "NOT FOR SALE" markings).

Just in time for all those promos to become 'on-line' only....

It's news to me that these still exist!

i am glad that this is the case because i have sold so many promose for so many drugs, and i was worried that it might be illegal or something

I sold a promo CD once, it went for £600

srsly!

what was it?

"Twin Freaks", a Paul McCartney bootmix, officially only issued as a double LP.

but what of the drugs you gained in exchange?

It paid for our fully-inc hotel accomodation in Spain.

(I'd started the ebay to end before we left, thinking it'd go around £80 or so, I'd wrapped it ready to mail, and the day before we left I popped into a post office local to our departure airport, first message I had was someone bailing out at £200 going "congrats", I was like "whoa", and by the time I got back to the family when I saw the final selling price I was shaking...)

(and about 2 months after we returned, I found another copy. That one "only" went for £200)

I had a copy of that - I probably gave it to the local Cancer Research in a box of other promos :/

In other perspectives...

As some of you know, I used to do music, but never got a deal (never went for one really), and anytime I think "Hey, I wonder", I take a look at the local secondhand CD place that deals in old promos, and see all the different acts that never did, and think "are they more talented than me? Probably"...

MG

that Twin Freaks mix thing was by The Freelance Hellraiser if i'm not mistaken?

yeah, and it's pretty good.

blimey. i asked Freelance Hellraiser about a cd copy .. and he assured me (as did folks @ EMI), that no promo cds were ever printed.

apparently, the only ones available via ebay etc, were euro pirated copies.

and yes, its a cracking album ..

Well, the ones on e-bay were most likely euro-pirated ones.

Some of them had nice covers, etc.

Not my ones though.

btw : got an unreleased track from the album that was held back due to clearance issues if anyones interested.

ooh, plz.

for Mr G : http://ireallylovemusic.co.uk/blog/?p=1608

oh, and if you're really into your Macca offcuts, then drop me a line as i have a track that put together various vocal snippets of Ms Mills to a Buzzin' Fly styled house track (it has PM on "backing vocals").

one thing that I always wonder about is those promos that say: this copy is specifically for YOU, and IT CAN BE TRACKED.
how do they do that?

Maybe there are special numbers or coding on it or whatever, a bar code? I don't know because I hate ugly promos.

hm, it seems the point is to prevent people to put the tracks online, so i always feel like if there is a barcode it has to be implemented in the audio. which seems impossible to me to create, i mean, if you're sending out 1000 promo's are you going to slightly change the audio files for every single 1 of them promos. i call bullshit. :)

they can do it.

People have been caught

audio barcode = promo water marking and people do indeed get found out : http://boingboing.net/2007/09/09/erik-davis-on-waterm.html

The biggest secondhand shop in Oslo have resold those for ages. No idea whether they have checked the legalities of it though.

People have been caught

wow, i have to delete all.. etc. ;)

Just in time for all those promos to become 'on-line' only...

and for physical ones to become nearly worthless in stores.

I do not understand why record companies would not want promos sold on - would they prefer it sat unloved in a music journalist bin as opposed to being out there promoting the record?

digital promos are so sad. i get them every day in my e-mail and i probably listen to, like, five a year. i get mostly metal downloads. or horrible indie rock. or horrible mixes. i still get tons of indie spam.

maybe if i had my computer hooked up to my stereo i would listen to more of them. i would play almost ANY cd promo that i got in the mail.

suspect that they simply want to exert a claim, to defend their right to control the terms of sale & use. seems to be part of a coordinated strategy of sticking up for their copyrights in every conceivable manner and never backing down. i don't suppose that they care a great deal about the sale of promos, specifically, except that during the pre-release period they do want to prevent leaks. that, and they're not happy in general with used media sales.

digital promos are so sad. i get them every day in my e-mail and i probably listen to, like, five a year.

I play a few more than that, probably, but only when an editor is holding a loaded deadline to my head. Basically, digital promos are the main reason I don't keep up with metal anymore. Because far as I can tell, most metal indies have cut out promo CDs entirely (which I guess is fine, seeing how for a couple years before that, so many of the metal promo CDs were made completely unplayable by computer-breaking add-on software, or by some dork saying "you're now listening to the new album by so-and-so" every 60 seconds.)

in an age in which actual consumers are increasingly consuming all kinds of media -- music, movies, tv, books, newspapers, etc. -- in digital formats and increasingly rejecting physical products, it seems strange to me that reviewers are continuing to insist on physical cds. i envision a day when cd players are all-but-extinct but some boutique company in japan or germany continues to make them for a small community of diehard reviwers who refuse to listen to music any other way.

though i do agree that computer-breaking add-on software, or ... some dork saying "you're now listening to the new album by so-and-so" every 60 seconds are mindbogglingly silly tactics.

yeah, it's true about the metal promos. r.i.p. new metal in my life. well, i've got tons of old metal. so i'm good. and i can always youtube stuff.

and i would totally buy new metal if anyone sold any around here. if i ever strike it rich maybe i'll start selling new metal in my store. i would have the market cornered.

i envision a day when cd players are all-but-extinct but some boutique company in japan or germany continues to make them for a small community of diehard reviwers who refuse to listen to music any other way.

Hey, I'll listen to vinyl! (And actually, I listen to plenty of stuff on Rhapsody, to be honest. Helps that I write for them and can listen for free. But those email promo downloads -- or streams, whatever -- are just a hassle and a half. I don't want to fill up space on my laptop with them, I'm paranoid about what add-ons they have attached, and half the time, they don't work anyway, or take forever to download. Or they make my computer run slower, so it's impossible to get work done. So they're not worth the trouble, unless I'm being paid for it. Then again, in the late '80s I resisted CD promos too, up until I had no choice.)

most reviewers don't get paid much, if anything at all (there was a Craigslist thread bumped just today where some Australian dude was looking for writers, who might be paid well in the future = never)
my point is, if a reviewer gets paid nothing or next to nothing, i think it's reasonable to give out a little freebie for his time: THE CD.

i mean i are talking about webzine here mostly, i am sure you guys all work for The Guardian and etc.

even though i even remember Dutch proper magazine writers hardly getting paid at all, or too late, had to beg for their money etc. subscroptions to those magazines has also dropped like it's hot. (so.. err. forgot the point)

i are talking, oh boy

i am writing on a crappy laptop and i DNOIT GET PAIDH ENUGH TO BUY A PROPRE ONE

crappy laptops do not explain grammar errors. or do they. my mouse cursor keeps jumping around though

though i do agree that computer-breaking add-on software, or ... some dork saying "you're now listening to the new album by so-and-so" every 60 seconds are mindbogglingly silly tactics.
i remember having a Pharcyde cassette promo that had a sung "yo ho ho ho a pirate's life for me!" overdubbed every 60 seconds...

My favorite promo ever is Madvillainy, where a Speak-and-Spell-like voice interrupted every song to say "Madvillain, retarded hardcopy"--it actually worked for the music.

Yeah, the El-P Fantastic Damage promo had a robo-voice that I actually missed when I bought the IRL album.

every so often I've considered doing an MP3 blog containing only uploads of promo CDs w/ voiceovers, just to see what happened

But those email promo downloads -- or streams, whatever -- are just a hassle and a half. I don't want to fill up space on my laptop with them, I'm paranoid about what add-ons they have attached, and half the time, they don't work anyway, or take forever to download. Or they make my computer run slower, so it's impossible to get work done. So they're not worth the trouble, unless I'm being paid for it. Then again, in the late '80s I resisted CD promos too, up until I had no choice.)

how are streams a hassle? listening to something on soundcloud or whatever wouldn't cause any of these issues.

"they make my computer run slower" seems pretty legit, also I don't think that many quote-unquote professional labels use Soundcloud anyway

xp Yeah, that sentence was a little convoluted. Obviously streams wouldn't fill up space on my laptop, either. But the record companies do frequently require reviewers to fill in passwords, log onto a site where the stream can be found, etc., and it doesn't always work the way it's supposed to. So I wouldn't say they're a pain the way downloads are, but I still don't like them much. Also, the sound quality pretty much stinks, though (like Scott said) that may partly be a fault of my laptop not being connected to a stereo. Or maybe I'm just an old grump.

i've come to way prefer digital promos - taking up room on my HD (which i can delete if nec) beats CDs taking up physical room in my living space. my laptop's connected to a stereo so the quality's not an issue.

streams, less so - i like to have at least one listen through headphones walking around, so i need to be able to put it on my ipod.

obv i understand why a label would put lower-quality music on promos, or that stupid voiceover, or just limit it to streams, but in return i hope they understand that those mean that i'll probably never bother to listen to their music, regardless of what it is.

Oh yeah, another thing about promo streams is that they frequently "expire" after just a few listens -- or rather, after a few times opening the file. So if you don't listen to the entire album all in one sitting, you sort of miss a turn. And if you're inclined to listen to an album a few times before you write about, you're often shit out of luck.

And another big advantage of promo CDs is that I can play them in my car (where music I write about is often meant to be played), or in other places where my computer isn't. (Of course, I suppose I could theoretically burn a CD-R, and work from there -- though actually, the promo downloads may well be safe-guarded against that -- but damned if I'm going to spend my time doing that.)

haha that's exactly the same reason i LIKE digital promos, so i can put them on my ipod and play them where my computer isn't

how are streams a hassle?

Is that a serious question? Hmm, how can being forced to listen to music on your computer while inevitably doing other stuff on there like, say, pissing about on ILX instead of concentrating on the music in an environment conducive to concentration possibly be a hassle for a critic? And, like xhukk, says there are issues with expiry.

Download links can be good but the most popular format, PlayMPE, is bullshit which tends to spit songs out erratically and in the wrong order.

oh my god play mpe i can't even

how is it possible for any one thing to suck so much?

Every time I use it I have to doublecheck that all the songs have downloaded, make sure the track titles and artist credits are correct and then create a playlist so that I can put them in the right order. If I was a musician I'd be screaming at my label about the way my music was delivered to reviewers.

I complained about PlayMPE only today

it sucks logs

i'm not sure i've ever actually managed to download anything off it. and yeah everything's as badly tagged as the most amateur rap mixtape.

also, those digital promo services where you have to leave feedback to unlock the download need to go away too. i usually just put something really inane like "it's nice!"

i still can't believe the entire promo i was sent for the kanye album was a yousendit link for a bunch of - mistagged! - 192kbps mp3s. like, WORSE quality than what had leaked the previous leak.

Y'all know it's simple to capture a stream and save it as an MP3, right?

or record it onto minidisc...