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I've never heard another record that sounds remotely like this. Craig's melodies are always original and always surprising. I hated this album for a while and then I "got" it. And the songs are very sexy and smooth, all the while being stilted without any typical groove at all. I honestly believe it to be one of the most original albums I have ever heard. Seriously.

― Yancey (ystrickler), Monday, 23 September 2002 16:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I had the same experience with it-- I was sort of puzzled the first few times I heard it, thought it was just weird for weirdness' sake. I mean, I don't think that would bother me now, but it did at the time. I ended up loving it, though. The eccentricities all started to somehow make sense. Wedren's voice and melodies are great, too, like I'm never quite sure what he's going on about but he's performing with such drama that I'm sure it must be something important.

― charlie va, Monday, 23 September 2002 17:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I remember quite liking "X-French T-shirt" and their cover of "So into You," but cannot recall the last time I played either.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 23 September 2002 17:25 (twenty-three years ago)

i just saw CW's new band Baby last week and they were fucking bonkers (crazy ass cover of the Stones' "Miss You" and a tune sampling Li'l Mo's "Superwoman", nuff said) and it's reinvigorated my long unsatisfied need to get some STT. thanks for the extra motivation.

― Al (sitcom), Monday, 23 September 2002 17:32 (twenty-three years ago)

I talked to Craig at a Rapture show here in NYC a few weeks ago. He was extremely nice. Most interestingly, he said he's recording a bunch of songs he wrote at the same time as PER solo and acoustically. I'm very interested to hear that.

We also talked about the Grateful Dead. He professed his love for "Friend of the Devil," which makes me love him even more.

― Yancey (ystrickler), Monday, 23 September 2002 17:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, one other Craig note: I asked him how he came about writing that way and he said that it mostly came from trying to write fucked up classical music and then having a rock band perform it. Could be a bullshit answer, I dunno.

― Yancey (ystrickler), Monday, 23 September 2002 17:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I used to see their guitar player (Nathan, I think?) at several shows in NYC (he of the flamboyant pomp/facial hair combo). Also a very nice gent.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 23 September 2002 18:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Guess I'll be the first on this thread to claim "Dud," then.

― hstencil, Monday, 23 September 2002 18:26 (twenty-three years ago)

I'll have to say that Pony Express Record was the beginning of the end for what WAS great dissonant/melodic band. What were previously tunefully abrasive, inventive angular structures became wanky self-indulgent, 'arty' prog-hamming. On Get your Goat and Funeral at the Movies, Wedren was working with the music instead of standing on top of it and belting out paint-peeling vibrato at random.

― rms (rms), Monday, 23 September 2002 19:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I used to see their guitar player (Nathan, I think?) at several shows in NYC (he of the flamboyant pomp/facial hair combo). Also a very nice gent.

And also he's hottt. Unfortunately that didn't prevent his recent solo album from

absolutely reeking

― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 23 September 2002 22:24 (twenty-three years ago)

absolute fucking classic. I often forget it and don't listen to it that often but only cos I almost wore my copy out when it came out and know it almost inside out. seriously, one of the high points of rock music from the last 10 years.

― simon 803 (simon 803), Monday, 23 September 2002 23:10 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think it's all that, and I agree with the rms that Funeral At The Movies is a superior album; it's more traditional but not boring. Sometimes stretching things can be nice and work, but when it makes my brain shut off and stop paying attention (as with Pony Express Record) it's not experimentation in the right direction, I think.

That said, some of the individual SONGS are excellent--"So Into You" and "No Room 9 Kentucky" particularly are pretty killer. But as an album it sort of falls apart.

― Ian Johnson, Tuesday, 24 September 2002 00:33 (twenty-three years ago)

A pity it reeks, I like that there Mind Science of the Mind album from some years back.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 24 September 2002 00:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, I agree about the Mind Science album. And the show from that tour that I saw was pretty good, considering that it was their first-ever public performance.

― j.lu (j.lu), Tuesday, 24 September 2002 00:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Pony Express Record is an absolute masterpiece (and has a terrific "non-production" production to boot). Best American record until "What Burns Never Returns".

Anyone else heard the original version of "So Into You"? It makes you wonder how they could ever have had the idea to cover it in the way they did...

― James Larcombe, Tuesday, 24 September 2002 08:20 (twenty-three years ago)

''and has a terrific "non-production" production to boot''

I like the sound of that

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 24 September 2002 08:31 (twenty-three years ago)

i love it - it's like if prince didn't fill his albums up with shitty knocked off filler or if freddy nixed roger taylor and clog boy. time signatures WITH SONGS??!! - you spoilin us, honey!. truth be told only 3/4 is inassailable but i love this record nonetheless - PANTOMIME! with a bit of s&m thrown in

― bob snoom, Tuesday, 24 September 2002 09:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Pony Express Record is Shudder To Think's pinnacle. Before, they certainly had their moments (their cover of "Crosstown Traffic" makes me forget that it's a Hendrix song), but they were one of the rare bands who were talented enough to take full advantage of major-label money and turn out an over-the-top, thoroughly idiosyncratic album. PER's followup 50,000 B.C is also pretty good, but not quite as inspired. It seemed to be one of those albums where the band was unsure where to go after their big artistic breakthrough, so they decided to do more conventionally structured pop songs. Which they did fairly well, but it was still a bit of a disappointment.

I never got around to listening to their soundtrack work (High Art and First Love, Last Rites)— would anyone recommend those?

― Nick Mirov (nick), Tuesday, 24 September 2002 21:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Don't get First Love, Last Rites. Not even a real Shudder album. And if you do want to get it, it's easily available in every dollar bin in NYC. I haven't heard High Art. A decent movie though.

― Yancey (ystrickler), Tuesday, 24 September 2002 21:53 (twenty-three years ago)

I highly recommend First Love Last Rites, both movie and soundtrack, although it definitely isn't a real Shudder To think album. The High Art soundtrack has some good mood music on it, too.

― Curt (cgould), Wednesday, 25 September 2002 00:05 (twenty-three years ago)

First Love.. has some excellent moments but isn't consistently great. The track with Liz Phair on it is the best IMO

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 25 September 2002 00:08 (twenty-three years ago)

First Love, Last Rites consists of a lot of '60s period pieces... I'm not clear on why it isn't a "real" STT album, but Wedren only sings a little bit on it and it doesn't sound anything like any of their other records, except perhaps the more retro doo-woppy moments on 50000 BC, and even those featured very of-the-moment production that's lacking on First Love. Yeah run on sentences.

― charlie va, Wednesday, 25 September 2002 00:30 (twenty-three years ago)

still think that "get your goat" was the best shudder record.of course
"pony" is the last good album they did, i really couldn't get my head around "5000bc" or whatever it was called.

Craig Wedren has a guest spot singing on the opening song on Cex's new album "tall dark and handcuffed"...

― matt random, Wednesday, 25 September 2002 12:40 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm glad to see all the Pony Express love. I've always thought that was a sorely underrated album. I dig it heavily.

― wl (wl), Wednesday, 25 September 2002 21:18 (twenty-three years ago)

two months pass...

I agree that Pony Express is truly one of greatest rock records of all time. I know that sounds excessive, but it is just so amazing. I like all of their other albums, but this one just blows everything out of the water. If there was any justice it will be remembered as such. I was acutally listening to this today and thought I would see if this topic was discussed recently because I wanted to talk about how great it is.

daron

― Daron Gardner (Daron Gardner), Thursday, 12 December 2002 14:49 (twenty-three years ago)

it is great. i love how unconventional the structuring of their songs is.

― dyson (dyson), Thursday, 12 December 2002 17:29 (twenty-three years ago)

I remember hearing the three-song demo they were sending around in musta been '93: "Gang of $," "Kissi Penny" and something else, then going out to get the "Hit Liquor" single and being amazed, then hearing the live-in-studio thing they did as a promo around the same time and being totally psyched, then COMPLETELY WAVING THE FLAG for Pony Express Record at CMJ and getting snickered at when "X-French Tee Shirt" ended up having the highest cost-of-video-to-total-album-sales ratio in the history of history.

BUT BUT BUT: the X-French Tee Shirt single's B-side (and do go for the promo CD version if you can find it) has a live-in-studio version of "Shake Your Halo Down" that is a good minute shorter than their original recording and SMOKES SMOKES SMOKES.

― Douglas, Thursday, 12 December 2002 18:07 (twenty-three years ago)

two years pass...

A few weeks ago my 15 year old brother told me that a friend of his wanted me to burn a copy of this album for her. A freshman girl that mostly listens to hispanic pop. I knew something had to be wrong, so after some investigation it turns out that she was a young cousin of one of my friends' girlfriend. I burned my friend a copy of this album back in 2001 and apparently it worked its way down the grapevine to her; she's liked the album for years. 11 year old girl loving this album: classic.

― D.J. Anderson, Sunday, 9 January 2005 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Exact same trajectory as Doug.

5 song promo EP for Epic (live-in-the-studio demonstration) was by far their best recording. Provisional no-designer-available cover is a painting of a german shepherd. As for Pony Express, "X-French" may be an alt-rock karaoke klassik, but the album's a dud.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Sunday, 9 January 2005 02:18 (twenty-one years ago)

i wish this record meant as much to me as it does to some people. i don't get it though, never did.

― kyle (akmonday), Sunday, 9 January 2005 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

When I was 15 this record was on par with Soul Coughing (!) when it came to changing the way I thought about rock lyrics.

― jaymc (jaymc), Sunday, 9 January 2005 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I was jaymc at age 18.

― David R. (popshots75`), Sunday, 9 January 2005 08:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Urgent AND key.

― David R. (popshots75`), Sunday, 9 January 2005 09:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Another prize from their Epic period: STT stole the 'Sweet Relief' Victoria Williams tribute album with their version of "Animal Wild."

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Monday, 10 January 2005 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

craig licked my ear at a rapture halloween show a few years back. my life has been all downhill from there.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 10 January 2005 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

lesson learned: telling someone that you find his music "sexy" while both of you are very drunk and high in the middle of a huge party might be interpreted as a come on

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 10 January 2005 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

"Urgent AND key.
-- David R. (quoteidio...), January 9th, 2005 1:02 AM."

David is right. The Baby album is AMAZING. So outrageously catchy it hurts. Someone needs to pick this up and distribute it NOW (and probably re-do the black-and-white xeroxy cover).

I can't get this goddamned thing out of my CD player.

― Chuckling at the Tomkat's Marquee (Ben Boyer), Monday, 10 January 2005 18:52 (twenty-one years ago)

It is both Urgent and Key that I fax Jams Murphy tomorrow.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Monday, 10 January 2005 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

yes it is! get that shit in, boyo.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 10 January 2005 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

eight months pass...

I'm hearing this for the first time, and I know this is totally backwards (in a couple of ways), but does his voice sounds a little like the Incubus guy as well as Travis Morrison of the D-Plan. But, like, reversed through a backwards-time mirror.

― regular roundups (Dave M), Thursday, 15 September 2005 23:15 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

great record

― am0n, Sunday, 23 March 2008 22:38 (eighteen years ago)

^^^ incredibly out of character?

― ian, Monday, 24 March 2008 04:21 (eighteen years ago)

When "Hit Liquor" would come on 120 Minutes I would fucking change it. But then later, like Yancey, I got it.

― wanko ergo sum, Monday, 24 March 2008 05:12 (eighteen years ago)

one year passes...

Holy shit, "X French Tee Shirt" is fucking amazing. Not sure about the rest of this yet.

― Mike Crandle, Financial Analyst, Bear Stearns, New York, NY 10185 (res), Wednesday, 30 September 2009 16:20 (sixteen years ago)

Just got it?

― Evan, Wednesday, 30 September 2009 16:27 (sixteen years ago)

yeah.

― Mike Crandle, Financial Analyst, Bear Stearns, New York, NY 10185 (res), Wednesday, 30 September 2009 16:28 (sixteen years ago)

Always loved this album, probably always will, it might take a little while to settle in with, Hit Liquor is the next most accessible track imho.

― MaresNest, Wednesday, 30 September 2009 16:33 (sixteen years ago)

Yeah at first I was annoyed that it sounded like they were creating chord progressions by pulling weird chords out of a hat and playing them in that order, but it grew on me.

― Evan, Wednesday, 30 September 2009 16:35 (sixteen years ago)

"say what . . ."

― mookieproof, Wednesday, 30 September 2009 16:35 (sixteen years ago)

Most of the tracks still seem that way to me. On my first listen "X French" was easily the standout track. What are your favorites? x-post

― Mike Crandle, Financial Analyst, Bear Stearns, New York, NY 10185 (res), Wednesday, 30 September 2009 16:36 (sixteen years ago)

Skipping 30 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I have to admit that I don't quite love the rest of the album as much. with a couple exceptions, it mostly seems like off-kilter rock mostly of meh quality. does anyone actually love the rest of the album?

― Poliopolice, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 20:24 (ten years ago)

I strongly like the whole album, if that counts. How many times have you listened through?

― Evan, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 20:40 (ten years ago)

XP - PP, in my humble, it'll grow if you keep chipping away, then it'll turn out to be the best thing ever.

― MaresNest, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 20:43 (ten years ago)

No Rm 9, Kentucky is the third best. What's the next place to start chipping away?

― Poliopolice, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 20:49 (ten years ago)

How many times have you listened through?

Maybe 5 times, but those 2 songs seem to rise obviously above the others.

― Poliopolice, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 20:50 (ten years ago)

XP - Next is the stretch from Gang of $ to X-French

― MaresNest, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 20:55 (ten years ago)

I just read that Craig Wedren was listening to a lot of Def Leppard before they recorded this album. Weird.

― Poliopolice, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 21:16 (ten years ago)

Also-- I unexpectedly discovered something WILD the other day as I was watching "The Whitest Kids U Know." Craig does the theme song! That completely blows my mind. I'd heard that song a million times and never would have put it together, but now I can sort of hear his voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2ARDvCGbjo

― Poliopolice, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 21:18 (ten years ago)

Wedren has done A LOT of scoring for tv and films. he did the theme for The State and a bazillion shows and movies with The State people, a ton of studio movies and network shows. it's actually kind of aggravating to me that he has literally hours of music that isn't commercially available.

― some dude, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 22:22 (ten years ago)

Get Your Goat > PER

― Duke, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 22:29 (ten years ago)

I've said this waay up thread, but I don't get the excessive love for this album.

― Duke, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 22:31 (ten years ago)

yeah i've never, ever been able to get into this album at all

― akm, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 13:24 (ten years ago)

I remember when "Hit Liquor" would come on 120 Minutes, I'd always bail in the first 2 minutes, it just seemed so willfully arty and dissonant, I found it pretentious. But the song only really gets good at the 2:00 mark!

― stanley krubrick (rip van wanko), Wednesday, 23 March 2016 13:56 (ten years ago)

The ingredients are so conventional but the recipe is not.

― Evan, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 14:03 (ten years ago)

I always found "Kissi Penny" v hard to digest, like it a lot now

Personal fave is "Chakka"

― Master of Treacle, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 15:28 (ten years ago)

Given this a few more spins. It's growing on me, so maybe making some progress, but "X French Tee Shirt" is still the only song that I could listen to on repeat for 10 hours-- and that might include any song by anyone

― Poliopolice, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 18:11 (ten years ago)

there are massive hooks embedded in this record beyond those two songs. "earthquakes come home"'s chorus for instance

― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Wednesday, 23 March 2016 18:13 (ten years ago)

anyway i love thinking about how much incubus were inspired by this record

― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Wednesday, 23 March 2016 18:13 (ten years ago)

Do you know that for sure? There are moments that remind me of Incubus but they don't last long. I always figured it was just coincidental due to again, the same ingredients.

― Evan, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 18:16 (ten years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui_9c1ztW4A

― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Wednesday, 23 March 2016 18:23 (ten years ago)

Ah, nice!

― Evan, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 18:38 (ten years ago)

I know they were doing things in consciously unconventional ways, but I really wish they added another chord or another note to the unchanging chord during that climax of X-French Tee Shirt. I'm always hoping to hear it do one of those things every time, only because I think it would sound really good.

― Evan, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 18:43 (ten years ago)

This is great:

https://oninlove.bandcamp.com/track/warz

― MaresNest, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 20:09 (ten years ago)

As is this:

https://oninlove.bandcamp.com/album/on-in-love

― MaresNest, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 20:10 (ten years ago)

do you think Craig Wedren would have been a better choice than Adam Lambert or Paul Rodgers in the new version of Queen?

― Poliopolice, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 20:51 (ten years ago)

LOL, the long warble at the end of "No Rm 9, Kentucky" sounds a little too much like Ol' Dirty Bastard for my comfort, though I guess to be fair, this came out before the first ODB solo album.

― Poliopolice, Thursday, 24 March 2016 19:13 (ten years ago)

one year passes...

big window crash (i'm deaf)

― mookieproof, Saturday, 17 February 2018 05:02 (eight years ago)

SO wha'd ya have to doooo that foooooooooor...

http://www.thetrapset.net/091-adam-wade-shudder-to-think-jawbox/

― MaresNest, Saturday, 17 February 2018 17:51 (eight years ago)

one year passes...

Say what?

― stan by me (morrisp), Saturday, 13 July 2019 05:41 (six years ago)

YOU

― stan by me (morrisp), Saturday, 13 July 2019 05:42 (six years ago)

....

― stan by me (morrisp), Saturday, 13 July 2019 05:42 (six years ago)

Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths
Hold back the road that goes So that the others may do That you let me in just to Pour me down their mouths

― d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Sunday, 14 July 2019 03:06 (six years ago)

him

― mookieproof, Sunday, 14 July 2019 06:26 (six years ago)

three years pass...

i predict by 3am the pill bottle top will have come undone

― mookieproof, Sunday, 28 August 2022 23:22 (three years ago)

I think I only have Get Your Goat, though possibly Funeral At The Movies.
Get Your Goat was quite fun anyway.,

― Stevolende, Monday, 29 August 2022 10:48 (three years ago)

― Evan, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 18:43 (six years ago) link

I know this was worded really badly but I still agree with myself here, not sure if anyone else does (suppose likely nobody could even parse WTF I was talking about).

― Evan, Monday, 29 August 2022 16:50 (three years ago)

it's funny to watch their PER-era videos and remember that they were on dischord before that. what if they never left dischord and instead had to convince ian mackaye that they needed to make a music video where they all wear blousy white suits and play on a swimming pool high-dive while shirtless hunks pose and flex

― na (NA), Monday, 29 August 2022 17:36 (three years ago)

i've never listened to their dischord-era stuff for some reason so it's really hard for me to imagine how they fit in

― na (NA), Monday, 29 August 2022 17:37 (three years ago)

I know they were doing things in consciously unconventional ways, but I really wish they added another chord or another note to the unchanging chord during that climax of X-French Tee Shirt.

The thing that makes it work for me is the little semitone dip they do just before they start repeating the coda each time, it's just a little nudge to get them pounding on F major again.

― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 31 August 2022 14:37 (three years ago)

Fair! But boy does it screw with my brain... and it would be so powerful too to have even a very brief resolve on some other chord anywhere during that section.

― Evan, Thursday, 1 September 2022 01:50 (three years ago)

There’s other songs for that, though, oder?

― massaman gai (front tea for two), Thursday, 1 September 2022 04:43 (three years ago)

Sorry, not following!

― Evan, Thursday, 1 September 2022 15:17 (three years ago)

two years pass...

apparently we have a 31st-anniversary edition. weird

big window crash (i'm deaf)

― mookieproof, Saturday, February 17, 2018 12:02 AM (seven years ago)

― mookieproof, Monday, 4 August 2025 03:30 (ten months ago)

It was an RSD double LP reissue earlier this year.

― wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Monday, 4 August 2025 08:55 (ten months ago)

just getting into yellowjackets & loving craig w & anna waronker's creepy feem choon

― massaman gai (front tea for two), Monday, 4 August 2025 15:39 (ten months ago)

just icymi, philip sherburne did a nice long review of this album for pitchfork at the weekend...

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/shudder-to-think-pony-express-record/

― Reggaeton Sax (NickB), Monday, 4 August 2025 16:10 (ten months ago)

two months pass...

Reunion show tonight in DC

― This dark glowing bohemian coffeehouse (Boring, Maryland), Friday, 24 October 2025 16:18 (seven months ago)

NYC tomorrow (sold out)

― bulb after bulb, Friday, 24 October 2025 16:29 (seven months ago)

They've still got it.

― Infanta Terrible (j.lu), Saturday, 25 October 2025 15:56 (seven months ago)

Fun show!

― This dark glowing bohemian coffeehouse (Boring, Maryland), Saturday, 25 October 2025 17:25 (seven months ago)

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Shudder to Think's Pony Express Record -- C/D

absolutely reeking