VOTE FOR MILES - ILM artist poll #32, Miles Davis - Results Thread

http://thegrio.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/miles-davis-01.jpg?w=650

I have listened to so much MD music in the last couple of weeks...there have been moments when I was just sick of hearing another trumpet note. So last night when I was tabulating, of course the only possible soundtrack was On the Corner.

Part One, Sidemen

The 2nd half of the sidemen poll to gnaw on while I go do some stuff.

18. (tie) Chick Corea, keyboards; Jack DeJohnette, drums - 1 Point, 1 vote, 0 #1 votes

15. (tie) Al Foster, drums; Dave Holland, bass; Bennie Maupin, bass clarinet - 3 points, 1 vote, 0 #1 votes

14. Red Garland, piano - 4 points, 2 votes, 0 #1 votes

13. Michael Henderson, bass - 6 points, 2 votes, 0 #1 votes

12. Ron Carter, bass - 7 points, 3 votes, 0 #1 votes

11. Cannonball Adderley, alto sax - 10 points, 1 vote, 1 #1 vote

Yeah, I kinda screwed myself as a Miles fan by not casting a sidemen or albums ballot.

The rest are obvious, but my personal favorite Miles sidemen are Bill Evans, Pete Cosey and Cannonball.

The much-shorter list would be major jazz figures of the '50s and '60s who don't show up on any Miles recordings.

Actually kinda wish I'd voted for Al Foster; he was so essential to how that band operated.

Ha! I can't believe you did the thread titles this way round.

A total lack of attention to detail, I assure you.

http://marcmyers.typepad.com/.a/6a00e008dca1f08834017c317cbbd6970b-500wi

10. Gil Evans, arranger - 13 points, 2 votes, 1 #1 vote

Even after ruling no to Gil and Teo, Gil still got a couple of votes, including a #1, so why the heck not.

http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/images/artists/philly-joe-jones.jpg

9. Philly Joe Jones, drums - 14 points, 2 votes, 0 #1 vote

http://www.zonadejazz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/pch1.jpg

8. Paul Chambers, bass - 15 points, 3 votes, 0 #1 votes

A+ display name, WmC.

I voted for Chambers. Good to see him in the top 10.

Philly Joe! He didn't make my shortlist, but what a groover.

This thread was originally going to be called The Complete Birth of the POLL, but the screen name came to me yesterday afternoon, and that was that.

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/35345765/Bill+Evans.jpg

7. Bill Evans, piano - 22 points, 4 votes, 0 #1 votes

http://i49.tinypic.com/2crkkn9.jpg

6. John McLaughlin, guitar - 29 points, 8 votes, 1 #1 vote

http://i49.tinypic.com/fem3gy.jpg

5. Pete Cosey, guitar - 30 points, 6 votes, 0 #1 votes

Wish there was some documentation of exactly what gear Cosey used on Agharta. My guess is some combination of wah and synth modules, but really, who the fuck knows.

Cosey beat Mclaughlin? Wow.

Yeah, as secret weapons go, he was really secret.

Cosey beat Mclaughlin? Wow.
That surprised me too!

Going to speed these up a little.

http://i47.tinypic.com/1fdyr.jpg

4. Wayne Shorter, tenor and soprano sax - 37 points, 8 votes, 1 #1 vote

Cosey made a great noise, granted, and looked WAY cooler, but McLaughlin just played on so much more.

Surprised I was the only one to vote Wayne #1! The one constant from acoustic into electric phase

Wish there was some documentation of exactly what gear Cosey used on Agharta. My guess is some combination of wah and synth modules, but really, who the fuck knows.

sounds a bit like an Electro-Harmonix Micro Synthesizer, but I'm not exactly sure when those were originally produced

I skipped voting for Cosey because his greatest moments are mostly limited to Agharta and Pangaea, not quite enough breadth for me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/WilliamCrump63/herbiehancock.jpg

3. Herbie Hancock, keyboards - 47 points, 10 votes, 1 #1 vote

Herbie Hancock is a national treasure. My #1!

Good for you. I think #3 for me, but my sentimental fave

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Columnist/Columnists/2010/5/11/1273581392444/Jazz-player-John-Coltrane-006.jpg

2. John Coltrane, tenor sax - 81 points, 12 votes, 5 #1 votes

http://images.askmen.com/fashion/style_icon/41_style-icon-miles-davis.jpg
1. Miles Davis - 6666 Points, 40 Votes, 40#1 votes

Stop that, please, this thread is going to be image-heavy enough without your hilariousness.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/WilliamCrump63/Tony_Williams_01.jpg

1. Tony Williams, drums - 88 points, 12 votes, 6 #1 votes

sorry William :(

Be your own sideman.

Everyone should check out Williams' astonishing 60s Blue Note records Life Time and Spring. It's a real shame he didn't continue in that direction. I love Lifetime (the band), but those records were so insanely unique, and gave incredible insight into what he brought to Miles' group.

Thanks for the tip. I've never checked those out!

I like Tony Williams a lot, but I am puzzled by any list of jazz humans on which he's ranked higher than Coltrane.

The category was sidemen, and I think you can argue that Williams's influence/impetus was as strong or stronger on Miles than was Coltrane's.

My list:

1. Tony Williams
2. Pete Cosey
3. John Coltrane
4. Paul Chambers
5. Ron Carter

My ranking was primarily based on, as broom air pointed out, the musicians' effect/influence on Miles' work/direction(s).

If we were ranking Miles' sidemen purely as musicians, I'm pretty sure Bird, Mingus, Monk, Sonny Rollins, and Elvin Jones would've placed.

When did Elvin Jones play with Miles?

Blue Moods on Debut, 1955. Miles, Elvin, Mingus on bass...and it's surprisingly meh. Miles wrote something in his autobio like "who knows why it didn't work, it just didn't."

Oh yeah. I own it but never looked at the line up! Nature Boy is pretty nice, though.

Hailing from Yorkshire myself I find it unusual that a dude from Doncaster was one of the top Miles Davis sidemen.

Ready for some albums? #30 to 21 today, maybe 30 to 16.

Bring it.

Part Two, The Albums:

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.
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http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LNXwXKjPL.jpg

#30 — Bags Groove — recorded 1954, released 1957
72 Points; 4 votes; 0 #1 votes

Jeez, these Amazon images are big.

So weird how Prestige randomly assembled some of those records.

Never heard this but it looks one hell of a group by the cover.

vintage CD image

Title track ranked high on my tracks ballot, even if it's more a showcase for Milt than Miles.

Do you mean like different bandleaders' stuff piled together in one release, or tracks gathered from different recording dates, or what? xxxp to Tarfumes

good album

"a substantial contribution from Carlos Santana" = a picture of Santana wearing a tie-dyed Miles t-shirt

honestly i'd rather they throw it over to keith jarrett so he can explain why all of this music is terrible. at least that would be kind of entertaining.

I wonder if Jarrett winces and writhes around when he's typing.

lol probably

but seriously, whatever jarrett thinks, him and corea dueling during this period is some seriously killer stuff.

Totally. I love how Miles got such amazing performances out of musicians by forcing them to do what they didn't want to do. I don't think Jarrett touched an electric instrument (or Corea an Echoplex) after his stint with Miles.

Paul Tingen chimes in on the upcoming release: http://miles-beyond.com/news.htm

Also, huh:

There's a nice, impressionistic essay by Michael Cuscuna, who was at one of the concerts, and the pre-release version also contains an interview with Santana. Reportedly Santana was unhappy with the album's cover, which he said had nothing to do with Miles, and he withdrew his cooperation and his section of the liner notes will be omitted from the release when it sees the light of day on March 25th. These are the rumours I've heard, let's see what the reality is.

Weird song ID request, but just wondering if anyone knows what Miles song was used in the clip from his entry in Microsoft Encarta circa-1994.

can't help you, but i am smiling b/c i spend shit loads of time as a 10-14 year-old exploring music clips and articles via this mid-1900s CD-ROM from Billboard/All Music Guide. got into tons of jazz as a kid b/c of this

"b/c i SPENT spend shit loads of time as a 10-14 year-old"

to clarify i am no longer a pre-adolescent

Was reading PDF's ranking of Miles' studio albums this morning and had a desire to listen to You're Under Arrest -- and WTF?? -- it seems to be the sole album of his not on Spotify.

Miles Davis At Newport 1955-1975: The Bootleg Series Vol. 4

looks good... though i'm not actually that crazy about the newport 58 set.
is that 75 set the last time he played in the 70s?

It's his last live recording of the 70s, but supposedly the last performance was a few months later.

And yeah, there's a bit too much already-released stuff here. I would've rather they didn't include the 1969 set and instead included the full 1975 set.

OK, I could give a shit about Disc 1, but Discs 2 and 4 look fantastic, and Disc 3 should be pretty awesome, too (I already have Bitches Brew Live, so I already have the 1969 material, but the '73 and '75 stuff will be cool).

I was hoping Vol. 4 would be four discs from the 1971 band heard on Disc 4. Oh, well...

Ha, I was just listening to Vol.3 the other and thinking we were about due for Vol.4, yeah I feel sort of mixed about the selection (was also really hoping for like 4 discs of unreleased 70s stuff) but I'll definitely get it...yeah disc 2 and 4 look like they could be awesome.

Does it still sometimes feel like Sony/Columbia doesn't know what to do with the 71-75 recordings? Like even here it's almost like they are luring people in with mostly released stuff from 55.

yeah just seems like an all 75 box is important... maybe other than agharta/pangaea and this july recording, columbia doesn't actually have that much in the vaults?

just discovered this by the way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrH8Fremjjo

Does it still sometimes feel like Sony/Columbia doesn't know what to do with the 71-75 recordings?

It really does. I mean, even when they remastered and reissued a bunch of the 70s albums in double-digipaks in the early '90s (At Fillmore, Black Beauty, In Concert: Live at Philharmonic Hall and Dark Magus), they left the crappy versions of Agharta and Pangaea on the market.

there's a tape of miles in 75 at the bottom line (which I think i learned about from yr book?) that smokes. audience recording though...

I was always a little lukewarm on Agharta and Pangaea until I hunted down vinyl copies and was blown away, the fact that Sony/Columbia hasn't remastered/reissued those is baffling.

This Newport box feels like a way of getting certain shows out of the way that wouldn't have fit on their respective/presumptive boxes.

In other words, the 1967 Newport set wouldn't have fit/made sense for the 1967 Bootleg Series, but there likely aren't enough unreleased 1967 shows to put it on another box with.

I know there's a slew of 1973 European shows (audio & video), and I remember there being talk of a big 1975 box some years ago.

Even the cover of this new box, which is a cool picture, but it's really burying the lede so to speak with regards to what's actually on the dicss

yeah i dunno - may just be that even though electric miles has become more accepted in recent years, kind of blue miles is still the most likely to sell?

I keep coming back to "Go Ahead John."

My uncle, a jazz pianist, posted this little rant on Facebook today. I understand just enough of it to find it fascinating. Was not at all aware of people playing the melody line on "All Blues" the way he's complaining about, but it makes sense. As does his argument about why it's so wrong...

Ok. Virtually every jazz musician knows tunes from Kind of Blue. Miles wrote those tunes and recorded them at a time of experimentation into modes and that was part of the reason he used Bill Evans, because Evans had some of the same interests as Miles in modes and modal harmony. So, Kind of Blue is legendary for a lot of reasons, but "All Blues," in particular, is one of those reasons. And of all of Miles' tunes from that album, probably even more than So What, All Blues is played the most performed by jazz musicians. And Miles' melody is a perfect example of what he was trying to do at that time. Now, I don't want to sound picky, but why is it that so many horn players, or for that matter anyone given the responsibility of playing the melody that Miles wrote and played, do not play it right. True, there are parts of the head that Miles phrases differently, but there is one place that he specifically always plays the same...the tenth bar (or, since you might call the tune in 3/4, instead of 6/4, the 20th bar) is the heart of that tune.

It is amazing to me how many do not play that simple part of that beautiful lead trumpet melody correctly. It could be in part because the various fake books that are out there have the melody written wrong, but that's not an excuse. Just listen to the damn song. It is that bar that is the heart of the song and his minimalist concept. As is true in many blues, the melody over the V chord is where the tension builds in order to resolve back to the I and then turn around. But almost every player I play with, if he or she is given the lead melody to play, plays an A over the V chord (D aug. 9), a Bb, as does Miles, at the Eb aug. 9, but then descends back to an A when the chord returns to D aug. 9. Miles doesn't do that. He doesn't do that the first time through the melody; he doesn't do that the second time; and he doesn't do that on the out chorus. The two saxes playing backgrounds do mirror the two chords, but not Miles. He hits the Bb and holds it out over the changes as they return to Daug. 9.

Ok. I know. This all seems so anal on my part. But I don't think it is. In fact, that held out Bb is the essence of what Miles was trying to do. A simple note takes on a completely different meaning held over changes moving underneath and that too is the essence of his modal approach. To him, one note could be a whole story in itself. And there is no doubt that is the way he wanted the melody stated. He never plays the head without that held out Bb, even if he uses other phrasing on other parts of the melody. Ok. Enough. I'm one to talk about playing someone's melody correctly...I know. But damn, this is possibly the most famous tune in modern jazz.

Thought Miles Davis: Birth of the Cool was excellent. I saw it at Hot Docs today; it's an American Masters production, so it might have played PBS already. It's a very conventional photos/footage + talking heads affair, and I don't think I'd want it to be anything else. (The Coltrane documentary from a couple of years ago was offbeat and intermittently annoying.) I liked every one of the interviewees, especially describing Davis's music--they really tried to find the right words to convey what effect it had on them (with lots of excerpts to help them along). Frances Taylor's self-regard is charmingly hilarious the first few times she's in the film--you enjoy it--then her story turns very sad, and you understand why she needs that. "Flamenco Sketches" at the end is an especially moving rebuke to anyone who decides they're not going to listen to someone's music anymore because they've done horrible things. (I'm differentiating between a sincere reflexive revulsion from such music--I don't have a problem with that--and, something else I've encountered here and there, a more self-conscious "I refuse to listen to such-and-such" because you think you're making the world a better place by not doing so.)

One thing that's crucial, I think, is how good Carl Lumbly's voiceover narration as Miles Davis is. They don't clarify anything at the beginning, so it's almost like they intentionally leave some ambiguity in place--is that actually Miles Davis's voice, something he left behind for future use? I knew that was highly unlikely, but Lumbly's that good. Looking at his filmography, he's been around a long time but I've seen next to nothing he's been in. He was in To Sleep with Anger, which I've never seen; I think I remember his small part in Pacific Heights.

My uncle, a jazz pianist, posted this little rant on Facebook today. I understand just enough of it to find it fascinating. Was not at all aware of people playing the melody line on "All Blues" the way he's complaining about, but it makes sense. As does his argument about why it's so wrong...

/Ok. Virtually every jazz musician knows tunes from Kind of Blue. Miles wrote those tunes and recorded them at a time of experimentation into modes and that was part of the reason he used Bill Evans, because Evans had some of the same interests as Miles in modes and modal harmony. So, Kind of Blue is legendary for a lot of reasons, but "All Blues," in particular, is one of those reasons. And of all of Miles' tunes from that album, probably even more than So What, All Blues is played the most performed by jazz musicians. And Miles' melody is a perfect example of what he was trying to do at that time. Now, I don't want to sound picky, but why is it that so many horn players, or for that matter anyone given the responsibility of playing the melody that Miles wrote and played, do not play it right. True, there are parts of the head that Miles phrases differently, but there is one place that he specifically always plays the same...the tenth bar (or, since you might call the tune in 3/4, instead of 6/4, the 20th bar) is the heart of that tune.

It is amazing to me how many do not play that simple part of that beautiful lead trumpet melody correctly. It could be in part because the various fake books that are out there have the melody written wrong, but that's not an excuse. Just listen to the damn song. It is that bar that is the heart of the song and his minimalist concept. As is true in many blues, the melody over the V chord is where the tension builds in order to resolve back to the I and then turn around. But almost every player I play with, if he or she is given the lead melody to play, plays an A over the V chord (D aug. 9), a Bb, as does Miles, at the Eb aug. 9, but then descends back to an A when the chord returns to D aug. 9. Miles doesn't do that. He doesn't do that the first time through the melody; he doesn't do that the second time; and he doesn't do that on the out chorus. The two saxes playing backgrounds do mirror the two chords, but not Miles. He hits the Bb and holds it out over the changes as they return to Daug. 9.

Ok. I know. This all seems so anal on my part. But I don't think it is. In fact, that held out Bb is the essence of what Miles was trying to do. A simple note takes on a completely different meaning held over changes moving underneath and that too is the essence of his modal approach. To him, one note could be a whole story in itself. And there is no doubt that is the way he wanted the melody stated. He never plays the head without that held out Bb, even if he uses other phrasing on other parts of the melody. Ok. Enough. I'm one to talk about playing someone's melody correctly...I know. But damn, this is possibly the most famous tune in modern jazz./

Watching this, extremely '80s, and what a cruel exercise to make a bunch of high school trumpet players perform in front of Miles Davis on television:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XnLblYNfIg

But there's a 16 year old Joey DeFrancesco on keys, and Miles ignores questions to ask "what's your organ player's name?"

Why, hello, Miles Davis' Dark Magus It's been a few years. Relax, plug in those wah-wah pedals, have a drink.

What's the best book about Miles' transition from the second quintet to the electric period. Preferably this would go to 71 or 72 at least, if not 74.

I recommend Running the Voodoo Down: The Electric Music of Miles Davis, but of course I would.

That's the one.

I should have known.

Happy 100th!

dang, I’m going to be all Sonny Rollins today, will get to my own personal Milesathon later in the week

I know. I was already assembling a huge Miles playlist yesterday before the Sonny news hit.

WKCR is doing a three-day centennial broadcast for Miles today through Thursday. I imagine they will do a memorial broadcast for Sonny right after that.

I wrote an Obligatory Miles Davis Centennial Essay in my newsletter today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuo6huJDlZU

xp nice essay. You're right obviously about the way Miles looms unreasonably large on a landscape with plenty of other monumental peaks and ranges. I think only Coltrane gets anywhere near him in being a default postwar jazz reference that even non-jazz people have heard or at least heard of. At the same time though ... I mean, I know you're not arguing with this, just trying to moderate things a little ... but Miles really does stand apart. Lots of great players went through different eras, phases, and bands, he just did it more, and to greater extremes. 1950-1975, that's a hell of a run. I can't think of many people in any vein of American music who can stand up to it.

i was happy to see that Miles piece in my inbox this AM, and of course the "if you like this, you should try this" section just has me recalculating my music budget for the month.

there are so many Miles records I own, but it's just the tip of the iceberg. It's like trying to keep up with Neil Young releases.

It's a cliche, but Kind of Blue was the first jazz album I bought (in the CD reissue with a cover photo of late-era glammy Miles.) It's absolutely phenomenal, but I agree almost specifically w/the Miles industrial complex feeling overwhelming specifically with that album. There are so many vinyl reissues of that one, in various shitty covers, released by various cheap jazz boutique labels from who knows where. It almost comes off like a public domain album now.

anyway I think I'm gonna try to track down some more of the Prestige quintet LPs, and finally get around to Agharta or Pangaea or Nefertiti.

Copyright for recordings if 50 years in Europe, right? So Kind of Blue is basically public domain there.

^^Everything before 1963 is PD, IIRC

It's my late Mom's Centennial too.
A friend, who saw Miles do this at Avery Fisher Hall in 1984, when Lauper's original was still No. 1, just now sent me an '85 live cover of "Time After Time":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE8y7QAJ3ug

Man, some of that hip surgery's on display, but he's still very hip too.

there's a few versions of time after time on the Montreux box. nothing very surprising, but dandy beautiful respectful covers . same goes for his MJ cover from 85 , I think

Seriously, what’s left to say? What’s left to learn? Every moment of Davis’s life and career has been plumbed to varying degrees of depth.

This is like asking when will people stop writing essays and books about Shakespeare. It's never going to happen, and that's a good thing.