What is the most offputting barrier to you listening to and enjoying certain types of music

What is it with certain styles of non-critic friendly music that makes otherwise open-minded listeners screw their face up at? Should music critics or fans listen outside of their comfort zones ever? and what puts you off certain styles of music?

Hi herman

Ramona is a beautiful drag name but you aren't very good at it.

Where is "a certain ilxor constantly 'wondering' why people don't like what he likes, making metal and discussion thereof unattractive for anyone who might want to explore it"?

hey i think we shd give the benefit of the doubt to this mysterious stranger who has exactly the same interests and writing style as Herman

And who is named after the manic pixie dream girl from Scott Pilgrim.

Whose sock is this, again?

I prefer The Real Ramona.

where is the "all of them" choice?

write in: "these people sound like they don't know how to play together"

ilm

hate reggae, too many white boys with guitars, and it's racist. And it's too aggressive.

bit of a bait and switch here.

Surprised "It all sounds the same to me" is not on the list.

^ main complaint i hear about most genres ppl don't like.

this is like, actually depressing

If your hierarchy of priorities begins with "technical proficiency" then you're probably a cheesy jam band. Voted second one down (chops).

Tough choice between "I hate metal fans as they're the worst" and "Bad dress sense."

I vote for "Fans aren't racist enough."

Someone else at my place of work plays metal covers throughout the day

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a5/RamonaForever.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/v679LG1.jpg

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/418787/train-wreck-o.gif

I 'fess up

reposted from another thread

I happen to like trying to get people to check out metal , yes i know that annoys the likes of sick mouthy or bb or whoever, but its cuz yknow i love music. I like to be introduced to stuff outta my comfort zone. I wish some knowledgeable person into reggae would send me dvds or spotify playlists of the classic old reggae/dub as i only have a handful of cds. Same goes for classical recordings (I have no idea which recordings are the best).

But why do people want to put off outsiders?

What puts you off certain genres?

Can some of you indulge me on this topic please?

the only actual productive thing is to ask this question of yourself ime.

as far as introducing others to music you like, i think a good tack to take is to express what you like about it in a way that makes it appealing to others, i.e. knowing and relating to your audience. people relate to the why, not the what (i.e. "bands", "albums", very large lists).

that's only really of any use to a writer, someone who is capable of expressing their opinion. Which I am not.

I would like to see peoples opinions on this. Especially with BB's interesting experiment on the go Can You Force Yourself To Like A Record Through Blunt-Force Repetition?

Dude. You have got to be fucking joking.

Because if you really want my opinions, setting up a FAKE FEMALE SOCK in order to bring up and then handwave away "sexism" is one surefire way to make sure that I will never address myself to you again. There is no universe in which this is OK, ever. And the fact that you don't even understand *why* this is not OK makes it quite plain that trying to talk to you about anything else would be a complete waste of time.

NOT OK. Now good day to you, sir.

I didn't ask your opinion. I said your experiment was interesting. I am not interested in anything you have to say. Ever.

only one of these i can relate to = "I've given the music a cursory listen but there is just no way in for me at all." seems a legit objection, like "this shit is boring," or "this shit makes me want to gouge my skin off and die."

"there's just no way in" speaks to me cuz i often feel exactly that way about super harsh & techy death metal (like gorguts f'rinstance). i can hear the sounds just fine but not the music. i expect that there really IS music in there somewhere - perhaps even good music, if people whose taste i respect seem to dig it - but i lack the capacity.

fwiw, i tried again w/ colored sands the other day. played some nowadays techy death-type stuff i genuinely enjoy as a ramp-up (black dahlia murder and revocation), and i kind of halfway got there, briefly appreciated the gorgutseses relatively fluid and organic approach (relative to the arguably artless pounding i seem to prefer), but i still didn't really LIKE it much. my loss...

I voted 'vocals" because I find that I like metal bands friends will play for me right until that moment when the vocals come in. Most recent example: Kowloon Walled City. Went from "Now this I can get into" to "no way man" in like a second.

Grew up on Earache records - Carcass and Deicide were big faves, and I love Surgical Steel - but I find I have little space in my life for those sorts of bludgeonings these days. I may just be old.

These

"Too aggressive."
"It's too basic and primal and not enough inventiveness."
"No tunes"

are all runners up.

Metal bands I do listen to, on a somewhat regular basis: Electric Wizard, Bone Awl, Portal, Wold, Velvet Caccoon, old Witchcraft (circa Firewood, Monarch, The Body, Wolves In The Throne Room, Esoteric, most Blake Judd-related things, old thrash like Kreator, etc. But after any of these, I'm usually ready for, like, Eno, or the Dead, or Eric Dolphy; all things, I must say, I vastly prefer to any metal band I've ever heard. Guess I dig 'inventiveness' and actually maybe should have voted that one. I work with metal dudes and they're always trying to play me NAAM or Weedeater or Thou or something but it hardly ever sticks to my ribs. Sounds cool enough when it's on, but then, poof, gone, ready for some J-Dilla.

But, given my above profile, I'd love some recommendations. I realize I risk ILX ridicule for this question, but aren't there any 'jammy' metal bands? Like, I don't mean Kyuss and Nebula and boring shit like that. I mean heavy, tuned-down-to-C bands that also feature some adventurous playing? Maybe even - gasp! - without the aid of a Bug Muff? This, I believe plays into the "too aggressive" complaint, perhaps. It's not a dealbreaker, but the maleness of metal (yes I'm aware of the many, many female-fronted metal bands, but also aware that metal is still the only genre that regularly publishes magazines and promotes gigs with phrases like "Hottest Chicks In...") bums me out (but no less than those same qualities in, say, Led Zep or Hendrix or the Stones).

Also, can I ask a metal dude why metal dudes don't go crazy for Bardo Pond?

Bardo Pond are one of my fave bands.

I like Bardo Pond, but they're not really a metal band at all.

Well, I realize that, but I also wonder what it is that they lack that prevents them from crossing over. I mean: big, distorted guitars played by stoned dudes obsessed with tone; hippie elements like flute and catatonic-sounding femme vox; long songs with heavy, even occasionally aggressive doom-y sounding parts, etc. Market those guys to the Rise Above crowd and I don't think anyone's calling foul, is all I'm saying.

Do you like SubRosa? They made one of the best albums of last year. Sublime female-fronted doom with two lead violins, gorgeous and genuinely moving lyrics, long expansive songs with real emotional depth.

I second SubRosa their last 2 albums have been sublime

and jimmywine dyspeptic , the bardo pond album did make the ilm metal poll, so some metallers do like them.

Well, their album is called Rise Above, so... I dunno, I think a lot of elements you mention JD would only appeal to a certain type of metaller.

tbf so does a lot of metal

but this thread shouldnt just be about metal its supposed to be any genres

unless of course metal is the only one ilxors cant get into

i am crazy about bardo pond tbh

"Fans of metal bands keep telling me I need to check out "this band" and their enthusiasm puts me off as

How does that option end? The poll code cuts off the line after x characters.

(dying here at K making a sock and kicking it off with a metal poll)

It's not interesting enough to warrant my time is probably my #1 excuse.

oh, if we're not talking metal (and if we're not, the poll doesn't really make sense), I can answer this question with a single word: "wacky." Anything that can be described as 'wacky' and I'm gone. I don't mean Jandek or Beefheart wacky; I mean the whole 'let's-cover-this-Madonna-song-inna-grindcore-style' wacky. Also, anything remotely like Ben Folds / Barenaked Ladies / MC 900 ft Jesus / Soul Coughing etc. "Ironic covers" also sums this up.

anything remotely like Ben Folds / Barenaked Ladies

ugh

and yeah i hate metal bands doing covers just to get a hit,

and JWD you can talk about metal as well as other genres. its a free for all.

but this thread shouldnt just be about metal its supposed to be any genres

unless of course metal is the only one ilxors cant get into

Mentions of Metal in the poll options = 6
Mentions of any other genre = 0

The poll questions are exclusively about metal but I would welcome all opinions w/r/t other music that often provokes negative reactions. Country/Jazz/Reggae/Opera et al

but if the only genre people cant relate to is metal thats fine!

now tom d tell us how you dislike prog rock!

I like it more than metal

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

predictable winner but "Too white and I feel out of place in that culture." 9 is depressing.

79 of you. 79

79 is a lot

"It's too basic and primal and not enough inventiveness." 1 was that a vote by a 15 year old imago?

Huge throbbing swarms of metal heads in Latin America don't seem to think it's too white.

there's some really great articles on African metal too online. Apparently its popular in a lot of big cities in some countries there. There is something "worldly" about metal. I suppose lyrics arent a big deal so it doesnt matter if you cant understand the lyrics. English speaking metalheads can enjoy non-english metal as much as the non-metal speaker enjoys english stuff. Plus there's less commercial pressure on them to sing in english too?

Absolutely. I remember that photojournalism of Nigerian (I think?) metalheads... some bad-ass dudes but they def. are rolling with a different aesthetic than US and Europe. Purely homegrown, it's great.

http://www.invisibleoranges.com/2013/05/egypt-culture-of-the-undefeated/
http://www.invisibleoranges.com/2013/06/african-metal-2-libya-and-tunisia/
http://www.invisibleoranges.com/2013/08/african-metal-algeria-morocco/
http://www.invisibleoranges.com/2013/09/african-metal-4-cameroon/
http://www.invisibleoranges.com/2013/10/african-metal-5-uganda/
http://www.invisibleoranges.com/2014/01/african-metal-6-zambia-and-zimbabwe/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tfwZnKW4pCw

I remember that photojournalism of Nigerian (I think?) metalheads.

was it not Botswana?

For me, it's all about the lyrical themes. You have your choice of:

-Satanism: I would loved it at 13. But as an adult, it seems so silly and immature.
-Fantasy-based lyrics, Dungeons & Dragons, hobbits: see above.
-Cliched teen angst: doesn't appeal to me as an adult
-Cliched anti-war lyrics: I agree with the sentiment, but metal anti-war lyrics seem perversely pro-war. Because war is the only thing more brutal than death metal, man

The vocals don't help either. It's not that I hate death metal vocals. I think they're a interesting novelty that's good for 1 or 2 albums, but that's it.

There there are the metal hipsters, the absurd emphasis on keepin' it real, the hyper-masculine attitudes, the prog-rock tendencies of "good" metal bands, on and on. I can't entirely dismiss any genre, but metal isn't my favorite by a long shot.

-Fantasy-based lyrics, Dungeons & Dragons, hobbits: see above.
-Cliched teen angst: doesn't appeal to me as an adult
-Cliched anti-war lyrics:

its not the 1980s; things have moved on since!

Seriously though, got any bands in mind you speak of?

Not really, but I've downloaded quite a few metal albums that I frequently see cited as the best of all time. I didn't really like any of them.

my biggest hangup with metal is i haven't heard any metal song that is as good as surfin bird. "you suffer" comes close.

tetrisattack which ones?

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:)

http://www.thejabberwock.org/blog/2/strychnine.png

Also, Cookie Monster vocals. Are...are you actually trying to scare...anybody? And has it ever worked?

so, old post, but I gotta address this common myth - the appeal of death vocals isn't being scared! Screaming has existed in multiple genres, and nobody is doing it to freak anybody out! Death growling is atmospheric, meant to mirror the bleak tone of the music it accompanies.

when done well, it sounds mega cool, just like when a punk rocker yells over some intense power chordage, it's cool. but also, it's meant to be percussive. on Cannibal Corpse album liner notes (and many other DM liner notes), they used to address vocals as "vocal patterns" because, similar to hip hop, it's meant to be percussive, rhythmic, creative, not just following a repetitive meter. there are of course degrees to this, dude from Anal Blast wasn't exactly Twista. likewise, it doesn't quite have the same polyrhythmic feel of rap, no, but there's reasons Corpsegrinder does rapid-fire, double-timed growls, or employs triplet patterns during a bridge. it's like a battering ram of sound.

"Battering ram of sound" is pretty much always the most offputting barrier to me listening to and enjoying certain types of music.

yeah I agree there's a part of me which thinks I could get way into metal someday but every time I listen to an actual album it just winds up sounding like aural sludge after a few minutes

I love old school metal, but I agree--I just can't wrap my ears around a lot of black or death metal.

Also, much of contemporary country music sounds like it was pumped out of a hit factory. I ain't buying it.

Stoner or sludge metal, like Sleep, I can get into for a while, but an album side or two is enough. I'd probably be able to tolerate a lot more if I actually got stoned.

Yeah it’s not about sounding scary it’s about sounding inhuman and weird and monster-like, plus sometimes it’s funny, and yeah the key for me getting into death metal vox was to hear it as another textural instrument, think of it like someone playing a blast furnace like a pump organ or something

my goal is to start all of my posts with “yeah”

Tbf I hated death vocals at first and you can find posts from me on USEnet in 96 getting clowned for complaining about them on alt.music.slayer.

David Vincent going “Oough!!” is the f’in best

From the poll, definitely music with "chops" or other ways of being mister smartypants (we just discovered dissonance and it's now our sole compositional device), lack of rhythmic sense (groove is a plus), and just generally the poor songwriting (our shortest song is 9 minutes but it could also be a bridge in our 16-minute epic).

In other genres:
- Cuteness, quirkiness, maximalism, the nerd's definition of happy or dancy
- Repetition, formalism
- Electronic music imitating nature, background music, mood music
- Experimental, deconstruction
- Actually most music with prefixes like avant-, alternative, hypnagogic, vapor-, indie, -core... seem to cultivate aspects that I find gimmicky, but I also hate to think of music in this closeted way, so it's more a discourse thing.

Sounds like my only options will soon be Fleetwood Mac and remembering how subversive and open-minded my tastes were in my twenties.

80s-00s uk indie
- the fans: some of the most bigoted smallminded "real music" fans and bullies I've ever known, as well as all the biggest wankers in british media, these associations can be hard to shake
- the music: you get the sense that things like good singers and competent rhythm sections are seen as unnecessary indulgences or at best an occasional nice bonus when it comes to this music

thrash metal - boring macho bullshit

the biggest barriers to me enjoying music are rote melodic choices, needlessly repetitive songwriting, the feeling that the music is about 'vibes' rather than melodic, dynamic, textural or lyrical narrative, and any sort of feeling of cheap emotional manipulation. these can be found in all genres

Opera singers stop me listening to opera tbh. Classical soprano is almost literally my least favourite noise made by human beings. In other words, "the vocals".

there are basically no vocals besides Anthony Kiedis', Jacob Collier's and Paloma Faith's that put me off, and those are three historically annoying vocalists

I guess anyone in that Paloma Faith mould of Winehousey jazzy inflection is risking my wrath tbh

never listen to extreme metal at home, but always enjoy it at concerts

barrier for me is that some genres don't have a venue where I'm at (or only very expensive venues)

I must be one of the few people who loves the sound of classical soprano while generally hating opera itself - so much of the culture around it seems to be this hideous self-serious pseudo-aristocratic posturing and gatekeeping while the plots are infuriatingly ridiculous and bathetic - opera queens love that tension and more power to them but I can't stand it

a relatively recent development afaik, used to be a popular (as in vulgar) art form until they got rid of the cheap seats (part of an intentional attempt at turning it into hideous self-serious pseudo-aristocratic posturing and gatekeeping)

I've been told it's less like that in Italy, idk how true that still is

it's a shame and mirrors what's happened to theatre and classical music in general. In the case of opera I blame wagner for a lot of it

xps to Neanderthal

let a death man growl
it’s meant to be percussive
let a death man growl
although he ain’t exactly Twista

Lolol

I can get into a lot of weird/annoying/"bad" vocal styles, but still I have never found a way past the belting emo vocal style. I spent the past two years dating someone who was really into MCR and I know a lot of people around here rate them highly. But I just couldn't do it, man. I like a lot of the other stuff Gerard Way does with his voice! But as soon as he starts with the "I'M NOT WHOA-KAAYYAAY" shit, I'm in for a bad time :(

And as for "cookie monster" vocals, these usually sound goofy as hell rather than bleak or atmospheric to me. But I can appreciate what they're going for.

I was just about to mention, coincidentally, that I only can't stand singers who sing entirely through their nose.

Also admittedly a lot of the mainstream rap in the last five years, I just don't get. And I love hip hop.

But I can appreciate what they're going for.

I guess I'm still trying to figure out what that is.

We hosted an exchange student from northern Germany about 15 years ago. He was devoted to the really scary-sounding Scandinavian stuff. It struck me as an affirmative act of nonconformity.

Strangely enough, I can really appreciate the sound of an operatic soprano. The Queen of the Night aria from The Magic Flute is sublime. I do prefer lieder, though, whether sung by a soprano or sung by an alto.