They May Be Nazis But They Really Rock!

Anyway. I do remember this really good record being played on "the tube" years ago. It was some berlin-based band, and the song was abt eva braun. The chorus IIRC was Ms Braun's name. Strangely enough, I don't think you'd get away with that to-day, even though the band weren't fascists, and the song had satirical intent.

Also, wasn't there some band in the late '80's who put a picture of enoch powell on the cover of one of their records w/satire/criticism of powell's views as their intention, but no-one got the right idea and it fucked them up?

gnnn...my mind's wandering

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Skrewdriver, on the other hand, are just morons. The Dead Boys, the Banshees and even the early Ramones flirted with Nazi imagery, but none of them took it any further than merely using it a symbol to offend. Siouxsie herself is Jewish, if I'm not entirely mistaken.

John Lydon now contends (in his book ROTTEN:NO BLACKS NO DOGS NO IRISH) that he was actually sending up Nazi imagery by wearing the pins upside down (and cites a photo to prove it), but that sounds a bit revisionist to me. How they rationalize "Belson Was a Gas" is anyone's guess.

Someone (one of the annoying things about ILM is you can't see the posts you are replying to while you reply to them) was saying they reckoned they wouldn't enjoy music by actual Fascists. Is this because i) Fascists by definition can't make good music or ii) if you knew someone was a Fascist it would poison your attitude to their music?

If ii), suppose you heard that someone from one of your favourite bands was actually a secret Nazi. Would it turn you off their music? Also, how important to the band does the Nazi have to be? Suppose you were a big Bros fan and it turned out Ken was a member of the BNP - would that be enough to turn you off ever listening to 'When Will I Be Famous?' again?

If someone in one of my favourite bands turned out to be a nazi, that would certainly put me off them, and I'd feel terribly betrayed!

I don't know if bros were fascists (probably not) but the certainly looked the part!

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As for Farrakhan - I don't see what good points he has to make that arn't made a hundred times more eloquently by black cultural commentators who don't wrap them up in a racist mythologising which is little more than inverse Aryianism.

just for clarification, i'm not enamored with any organized religion, and this isn't some effort to criticize predjudice against christianity on a personal level because i'm not happy with it myself. and yes, i realize that bigotry against minorities like jewish people is 'worse' than against the dominant groups in practice, if not in theory. man, i hope people don't misunderstand this.

Ice Cube gets _MAJOR_ points deducted for hanging and recording with those losers in Korn (wait a minute, they're _white_ ...) and hasn't done anything worth listening to in years. But those early albums ("Death Certificate," "AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted," "The Predator") of his were great (except for the bigotry) and some of the best rap ever.

But who cares about Clapton, his music sucks and he's an overrated has-been (regardless of his politics).

But people who are actually serious about it- I mean, who has there been? Skrewdriver? Not exactly big were they? And I don't think "Keep England White" is something that Eric Clapton is too willing to talk about these days...

Old Fart!!!

Just wondering: Why do you think some kinds of prejudice are worse in practice?

To chip in on the music debate, nothing like this has ever bothered me in the least. Life is too short to research political beliefs every time I want to buy a stinkin' record.

Glad somebody mentioned Muslimgauze -- that guy was totally nuts (and a great search & destroy subject.)

Black metal, on the other hand, has a fascist element in some form but I do believe it is coming from somewhere else deep in the Nordic tundra. (Here we could talk about the differences in b.m. from Sweden and Norway. Marduk are from Sweden and are quite bit different from the original Norway scene.) They really don't have much in common with garden variety neo-Nazi skinheads. Lords of Chaos is a great book and addresses this complex question.

Lets get straight to the goods. Does anybody own a Skrewdriver LP? I will go on the record and say I own their debut LP, which is not really a neo-Nazi record. At that point, they were closer to Sham 69's football thug mentality. This was before Ian fell in love with the National Front and just got deeper and deepr into the shit because he was a stupid toothless punk. I have tried to listen to a later period Skrewdriver record but it was dull. I don't care about politics but when an aesthetic turns into propaganda then art turns to shit and that is what happened to Skrewdriver.

castrated wack-offs

Ummm....er.....isn't thar rather oxymoronical?

Feh, the second half of Lords of Chaos is the literary equivalent of a Pol Pot t-shirt

Although that was their public stance in the media frenzy circa 1994, that argument doesn't really hold - they were on the Euronymous tribute, toured with tons of Norwegian bands, shared labels, etc. If you're strictly talking music, it makes more sense though, although it's not a massive difference.

They really don't have much in common with garden variety neo-Nazi skinheads. Lords of Chaos is a great book and addresses this complex question.

Interesting as it undoubtedly is, the writers do have the annoying tendency of streamlining those dozens of viewpoints to line up with their own theories. This could be said of nearly every "scene book" though.

Back to the original question: Graveland's and Burzum's musical contributions to metal are more or less beyond criticism/canonized by now, despite them being unambiguous about their fascist views. The fact that they refrain from being explicitly political in their music might explain their long term appeal - it's a lot harder to take even a half-decent band singing about killing job-stealing Pakis (Skrewdriver) seriously.

To Sherlock Holmes final mystery.

The Fall wore Nazi armbands to pubs and stuff when the were starting out.

For me, a band's music doesn't HAVE to transcend any
sentiment. I view them completely independantly. True, if a band
is utterly reprehensible, I don't want to support them
financially buy buying tickets or CDs, but hey, I download
most of my new music now, anyway.

Heh heh...that reminds me of Chuck's throwaway "Stairway To Hell" comment describing JD's "I Remember Nothing" as a Sgt. Schultz tribute!

Otherwise, i hate nazis and i go out of my way to taunt them. i went on a SLSK chat room for industrial music the other day, there were nazis, here was an exchange:

Me: "Sorry, I thought this was a music room, not the Garbage-tip for racist scum room" Nazi: "Come back when your testicles descend" Me: "Ask your mom how they descended on her face last night" Nazi: "you talk like a nigger" Me: "you're jealous because you have a tiny penis and your mom loves big black cocks" Nazi: "a horse has a bigger penis but it's just a dumb animal like you" Me: "So what you're saying is, your mom likes horse cocks even more than black cocks" Nazi: "Shut up"

Anyways i have a little bit of music that was made with bad sentiments. I don't seek anything for those politics- if i have it, it falls under some other category in my collection.

If you can appreciate "triumph of the will" or "birth of a nation" for art or history's sake, sometimes this kind of music is worth attention too.

Here is some stuff i have:

-Death in June - good if you like joy divisionesque "gothic" music, or music that is blasphemous yet pretty. They were gay nazis.

-Boyd Rice- his article in the Re/search Pranks book is worth reading and funny. It can be interesting to hear , or at least read about what he did in music (fan guitar, "one of the first uses of turntables as an instrument", DIJ/coil collaboration) Fascist although can be appreciated as simple misanthropy.

-GG allin- he did a couple songs with out and out racism in a bad-taste joke way. But he's GG allin.

-oi punk had bands with righty wingy militarism and nationalism as part of the violent subject matter- mixed with contradictory messages. If you can appreciate it as "from the street" than it can be taken as stories not propaganda- not Skrewdriver mind you, but 4 skins, cocksparrer, Combat 84, Condemned 84, Last resort.

-like someone else said, i heard skrewdriver's 1st album actually was not intented to be nazi, and said something like "down with imperialism" or something on the cover. I would listen to it. Although nothing else of theirs.

The occult I believe, and I remember some Nazi stuff. Of course some people say Hitler was connected to the occult, in which case it's a two for one deal maybe.

And The Strong Survive
For The Love Of Life
And The Strong Will Rise
In The Endless Light
For The Blood Of Life
For The Love Of Life

Also, Mr Snrub...you got my attention. When did Reggae singer Snow turn racist? Dish the gossip, man.