Grand Funk Railroad and Nu Metal

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There was a short period in the early 70's when some rockcrits (Dave Marsh and Robert Christgau, most notably) suddenly embraced Grand Funk Railroad after deriding them on first arrival. The reasoning behind this was that a) in Marsh's case, "they are the only group who can truly emphasise with America's youth" (or something to that effect), b) if all the critics hate a group, it's bound to be good on some level and c) if so many ppl are so fanatical about it, there's gotta be something good in there.

All of these same reasons could be used to defend Nu Metal (and more- not the least the fact that Nu Metal is one of the few genres popular amongst young Rock audiences that doesn't pretend Hip-Hop doesn't exist), and I've seen some tentative forays into doing just that on ILM and elswhere.

However, this short wave of love soon went away when rockcrits found out that, despite Grand Funk being all well and dandy in theory, none of them actually wanted to listen to their records. This is the same problem I have with Nu Metal. So are the reasons critics got interested in them rubbish? Or were they right, but just not able to take in practice what they advocated in theory? Or am I misinterpreting the whole thing in the first place (to be truthful, all the evidence that I have of it is some old Dave Marsh articles and the Christgau Consumer Guide?) And is the Grabd Funk/Nu Metal comparsion faulty? Discuss...

― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 23:27 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't have the historical perspective to refute or affirm your take on the critical turnaround on Grand Funk, but of...

a) in Marsh's case, "they are the only group who can truly emphasise with America's youth" (or something to that effect), b) if all the critics hate a group, it's bound to be good on some level and c) if so many ppl are so fanatical about it, there's gotta be something good in there.

(a) is an entirely non-musical criterion and so kind of besides the point, and (b) and (c) are kinda rubbish, one way or the other.

I think you do have some sort of point in talking about Nu Metal's embrace of hip hop.

― wl (wl), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 23:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Perhaps I'm oversimplfying, and what they meant was more that reasons a, b and c are responsible for them being "relevant" or "new" than actually any good. Then again those are the criterias many ppl use to define their own standards of (subjective, in case Ned reads this) quality?

http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?id=532&name=Grand+Funk+Railroad he never rates them above a C+ but there surely is some evolution in his relationship towards what the band stands for there...

― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 23:40 (twenty-three years ago)

subjective, in case Ned reads this

Noted and thank you. ;-) I have nothing to say about Grand Funk Railroad aside from the fact that my seventh grade music teacher had a poster of them up in his classroom.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 23:47 (twenty-three years ago)

responsible for them being "relevant"

I hate it when music is described as "relevant" or decried for not being "relevant," so much that I almost want to say, "Relevance doesn't exist."

You point out part of the problem: what if something is "relevant" but bad? Should you listen to something "irrelevant" and good instead? Yuck all over.

― wl (wl), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 23:58 (twenty-three years ago)

I was in a Grand Funk air guitar cover band when I was ten. I thought they were sexy--Mark Farner's the Joe Dallesandro of early 70s rock. I don't remember what the critics were saying back then, I only read the local paper. By the time I was reading Christgau, Marsh, blah blah blah, GFR had sold out and gone pop/gotten Todd Rundgren to produce them and I think they probably mentioned them affectionately. I think that was the attitude of Creem, but then they were from Michigan, after all. I wonder if people will feel the same way about Fred Durst in a few years. Maybe Limp Bizkit should do a nude photo shoot.

I think Grand Funk Railroad were actually a good band, though it's their later hits I love, not the early stuff. "We're An American Band" is a fantastic song, totally classic. I'm not so sure about Nu Metal, although it sounds really good as soundtrack fodder. Relevance isn't enough for me, either, but I'm not a rock critic.

― Arthur (Arthur), Thursday, 17 October 2002 14:19 (twenty-three years ago)

WL, I think the logic is less "you have to like it or deem it important" and more "you need to at least take it seriously if you expect to have anything meaningful to say to the public." Which I think is true about nu-metal for any writer or publication that wants the attention of young listeners: they don't have to like it, but they're going to need to have something substantive to say about it beyond "it's stupid and not worth bothering with." (This would include anything from rabid nu-metal coverage to somehow defining yourself as virulently and defiantly anti nu-metal.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 17 October 2002 14:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Nitsuh, I get you, but still hate the word as it relates to music.

― wl (wl), Thursday, 17 October 2002 14:59 (twenty-three years ago)

And actually, the original question does say "embrace," which I daresay has Daniel relating (or maybe equating) "relevance" to "you have to like it or deem it important." Which is part of what bothers me. (Not a diss on Daniel, just an overall pet peeve.)

― wl (wl), Thursday, 17 October 2002 15:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, one of the interesting things about Grand Funk Railroad is that they got Todd Rundgren and Frank Zappa to produce their records. Though it's hard if not impossible to find any Rundgren or Zappa influence on anything they ever did, or why either would be motivated to produce Grand Funk (except that they needed the money).

― Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 17 October 2002 17:36 (twenty-three years ago)

The real question to me is when we'll hear a nu-metal version of "I'm Your Captain."

― hstencil, Thursday, 17 October 2002 17:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, one of the interesting things about Grand Funk Railroad is that they got Todd Rundgren and Frank Zappa to produce their records.

Linkin Park remix album to thread!

― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 17 October 2002 19:35 (twenty-three years ago)

but were they like *urban*...

― dsico (dsico), Thursday, 17 October 2002 21:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, in the way of early nu-metal, a lot of critics actually like it. Stuff that sort of started getting metal funky like Fishbone and then Faith No more, and then Rage Against the Machine. I think they even liked Korn's first records.

The problem is, rap-metal isnt exploring any new boundries. It's like they said, "Hey, why dont we mix the worst elements of rap with the worst elements of rock, and make a new ultra-terrible music!"

That, and holy shit, Linkin Park. Do you think those guys will ever get tired of the formula they used for every single song they have? Namely, "Singing softy....singing softly....SCREAMING LOUDLY...SCREAMING LOUDLY...singing softly.... rap interlude....rap interlude...SCREAMING LOUDLY"

― David Allen, Thursday, 17 October 2002 22:25 (twenty-three years ago)

You, sir, have not even listened to Linkin Park. (thats not how it works at all!!)

― A.V. Alexandre (Keiko), Thursday, 17 October 2002 22:31 (twenty-three years ago)

"You, sir, have not even listened to Linkin Park. (thats not how it works at all!!) "

Were you being sarcastic, or retarded? Cant tell.

― David Allen, Thursday, 17 October 2002 23:14 (twenty-three years ago)

hey but you know who actually SOUNDS like GFR? the datsuns!

― unknown or illegal user (doorag), Friday, 18 October 2002 03:30 (twenty-three years ago)

GFR were better tho.
frank zappa said he produced GF 'cause he liked em. i never heard the album he produced but it's called "good singin', good playin'" which, you gotta admit, is that a great album title or fuckin what

― unknown or illegal user (doorag), Friday, 18 October 2002 03:33 (twenty-three years ago)

"Singing softy....singing softly....SCREAMING LOUDLY...SCREAMING
LOUDLY...singing softly.... rap interlude....rap interlude...SCREAMING LOUDLY"

Haha this is like grunge but with a better bridge!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 18 October 2002 03:53 (twenty-three years ago)

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