Rolling Stone's "Women in Rock" Issue

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Rolling Stone's "Women in Rock" issue has Britney Spears, Shakira and Mary J. Blige on the cover (Alannis, Avril Lavigne and Ashanti on the inside fold). What would have been lost if they'd called the issue "Women in Pop"?

― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 17 October 2002 01:25 (twenty-three years ago)

"respect"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 17 October 2002 01:28 (twenty-three years ago)

The question isn't pop v. rock, but which female is and isn't essential in music today. Joni Mitchell? Stevie Nicks? That's a pretty shitty list of female musicians/singers/personalities.

― Jm, Thursday, 17 October 2002 02:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Who did they omit, Jimmy? Remember, this is Rolling Stone.

― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 17 October 2002 02:16 (twenty-three years ago)

i used to like rolling stone years back. this is one reason why i stopped buying it.

― donna (donna), Thursday, 17 October 2002 02:36 (twenty-three years ago)

That's ridiculous. Women aren't even allowed in rock anymore. They've all been replaced by girls.

― Kim (Kim), Thursday, 17 October 2002 02:59 (twenty-three years ago)

that kind of shit makes me want to go home and listen to heavens to betsy

― di smith (lucylurex), Thursday, 17 October 2002 03:37 (twenty-three years ago)

That's ridiculous. Women aren't even allowed in rock anymore. They've all been replaced by girls.

Or by females who are not a girl, not yet a woman.

― Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 17 October 2002 03:38 (twenty-three years ago)

It'd been better if they'd used "Women Are Back!" as the headline. Vanity Fair has nearly the same cover, only they got J. Lo and S. Crow.

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 17 October 2002 04:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Mark beat me to it. Sleater-Kinney is in the issue. Also, the photos are grebt.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 17 October 2002 04:18 (twenty-three years ago)

I did notice there wasn't any Destiny's Child or even Beyonce, which is unusual considering that Aaliyah aside, she'll probably end up the single most influential female R&B artist of this era.

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 17 October 2002 06:16 (twenty-three years ago)

If Mary J. and TLC aren't included as part of this era (which they probably shouldn't be)

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 17 October 2002 06:22 (twenty-three years ago)

no, they're early '90s; we're talking late '90s/early oughts. of course, I forgot Missy, so Beyonce would be one of three

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 17 October 2002 07:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Do they still bother to mention Madonna?

― Kim (Kim), Thursday, 17 October 2002 10:19 (twenty-three years ago)

"Big Mama Thornton never got her royalties for writing Janis Joplin's "Ball and Chain," and Bessie Smith was menaced by the Klan"

..And that was because they were women, right?

"As Shakira tells us, "I can play the guitar like Alanis, and I can have the hair color of Britney, and, yeah, I have a Latin butt like J. Lo""

... Women in rock! yeah!

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 17 October 2002 10:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Hasn't Rolling Stone been taken over by a former editor of Maxim or FHM though? I think I read something along those lines recently.

So in that context their idea of "Women in Rock" makes perfect sense.

― Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 17 October 2002 11:31 (twenty-three years ago)

It shows how PC and considerate Rolling Stone is that they have a "Women in Rock" issue every couple of decades. (Granted its the "Men in Rock" issue every month.)

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Thursday, 17 October 2002 13:09 (twenty-three years ago)

It appears that they are using "rock" to mean any type of popular music that is covered in Rolling Stone. There is something a bit quaint about that.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 17 October 2002 13:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Hasn't Rolling Stone been taken over by a former editor of Maxim or FHM though? I think I read something along those lines recently.
So in that context their idea of "Women in Rock" makes perfect sense.

Yeah, Blender. At least now they're not straddling the line between "serious journalism" and pap like they've been doing for the past decade or so.

― Aaron W., Thursday, 17 October 2002 13:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Women aren't even allowed in rock anymore. They've all been replaced by girls.

On the small potatoes scene its still fairly even. Or at least I can think of a few of the top of my head from town.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 17 October 2002 13:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, don't take me literally. I'm just being snarky - a bit irked by the lack of people (and yes, ok, especially women) that, despite being plain looking (or god forbid - OLD) still become famous/successful in the music industry because they're just fantastically good at making (duh) music. But whatever, the industry today clearly isn't a purely MUSIC one anyway, not to say that it ever was. It's just that it appears to be narrowing - and that pretty much sucks on every level I can think of.

― Kim (Kim), Thursday, 17 October 2002 20:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Women are back? Where did they go, exactly?

― hstencil, Thursday, 17 October 2002 20:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Other questions: Alanis can play guitar. Who knew?

What, exactly, is a "Latin butt?" (Do I really need to know this?)

― hstencil, Thursday, 17 October 2002 20:54 (twenty-three years ago)

It appears that they are using "rock" to mean any type of popular music that is covered in Rolling Stone. There is something a bit quaint about that.

The "All Music Guide To Rock" (print version) includes Aphex Twin, Schooly D, Marvin Gaye, Ray Charles, ABBA and Michael Jackson, which reflects the views of a whole lotta people- many see "Rock" (or "Rock/Pop") as one gigantic term for near all popular music; so it's wrong, yes, but hardly quaint.

― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 17 October 2002 21:30 (twenty-three years ago)

maybe if we stop talking about Rolling Stone it will go away

― Amedee Archambault (Amedee), Thursday, 17 October 2002 21:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Women are back? Where did they go, exactly?
The ladies room. They all, every single one of them, went into the ladies room in 1998 and only now came out.

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Thursday, 17 October 2002 22:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Seriously - is there ANYONE who reads Rolling Stone anymore? Their readership's been steadily dropping for years, the "younger" generation doesn't give a shit about them, and the boomers are surely far more wrapped up in their issues of Forbes and the AARP newsletter. They've gone beyond irrelevant - chiding them for their old prejudices or latest attempts at youthful pandering seems like shooting a dead horse when it's stuck down in a barrel... or something...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 17 October 2002 22:13 (twenty-three years ago)

But...but...but...they had an article about Slipknot...surely they have there finger on the pulse of popular taste? Right?

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Thursday, 17 October 2002 22:20 (twenty-three years ago)

*crickets*

― jm, Friday, 18 October 2002 00:05 (twenty-three years ago)

better question: which six would you put on the cover of your magazine? (ignoring the obvious problems with my 'only pick six' reductionism)

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 18 October 2002 00:30 (twenty-three years ago)

They only got three, so I'd go with Missy Elliot, Kevin Blechdom, and Natalie Maines, limiting myself to people with recent releases.

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 18 October 2002 04:43 (twenty-three years ago)

The Donnas. Erase Errata. Le Tigre. Sleater-Kinney. Sahara Hotnights. The Gossip. That's six, right? And what about Brodie Armstrong (from The Distillers) and Karen O (from YYYs)?

― Danni, Friday, 18 October 2002 04:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Mummy, what's an Erase Errata? (seriously - they're the only name I don't recognise from that list)

― Charlie (Charlie), Friday, 18 October 2002 04:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Danni's list is loaded with variety (although it is supposed to be 'women in Rock' so nevermind).

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 18 October 2002 04:50 (twenty-three years ago)

Although I think Kevin Blechdom rocks.

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 18 October 2002 04:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Mummy, what's an Erase Errata? (seriously - they're the only name I don't recognise from that list)

They're an all-girl commie-pinko No Wave thing from San Francisco -- I don't think they're very good, but a lot of people like them.

― Jody Beth Rosen, Friday, 18 October 2002 04:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Me, I'm just waiting for the Cheetah reunion.

― Jody Beth Rosen, Friday, 18 October 2002 04:53 (twenty-three years ago)

I like 'em well enough, for what it's worth, but I tend to eat that type of stuff up, no questions asked.

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 18 October 2002 05:14 (twenty-three years ago)

The rolling stone cover has Shakira, Britney, and Lil' Kim. I think that's actually about right.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 18 October 2002 05:15 (twenty-three years ago)

many see "Rock" (or "Rock/Pop") as one gigantic term for near all popular music; so it's wrong, yes, but hardly quaint

This reminds me of the Southern California slang that uses the word "coke" as a generic term for any soft drink. As in:

"I'd like a coke, please."
"What kind?"
"A 7-Up"

The technical term for this linguistic phenomenon is synecdoche.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 18 October 2002 13:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Now theres no "rock" left, everything is either "Alt", "Hip-hop" or "Electronica."

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 18 October 2002 14:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Southern California slang? That's totally a Kentucky usage, mahn.

― hstencil, Friday, 18 October 2002 14:08 (twenty-three years ago)

I thought in kentucky they just say "Gimme a shot a JD."

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 18 October 2002 14:16 (twenty-three years ago)

I learned it in SoCal, but I'm not surprised that it pops up in other places as well.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 18 October 2002 14:17 (twenty-three years ago)

MARY J BLIGE IS NOT LI'L KIM!!!!!!!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 October 2002 14:20 (twenty-three years ago)

JD?!?!? JD?!?!? That shit's from Lynchburg, Tennessee, mahn! Real bourbon (note: bourbon can only be called bourbon if it's from Kentucky) drinkers stay away from that crap. I'm a Makers Mark man, myself.

― hstencil, Friday, 18 October 2002 14:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Howsabout Jim Beam, then?

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Friday, 18 October 2002 14:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Beam's not bad for lower-shelf stuff. I mean, I'd drink it before Old Crow or some similar sounding stuff anyday.

― hstencil, Friday, 18 October 2002 14:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh but Beam's all corporate now and stuff, and apparently they're not very nice to their distillery workers (read something lately about how they're limiting bathroom breaks, which I find to be completely undignified and disgusting). They're based in suburban Chicago now, so I'm boycotting them out of principle (although they run the Knob Creek brand, which is pretty good schtuff).

― hstencil, Friday, 18 October 2002 14:28 (twenty-three years ago)

i don't know how rolling stone have handled this becuz i haven't looked at it but if i look at my record collection i'd say its men dominated. whereas its on the jazz, classical and rock sides. so something needs to be addressed, i don't know what though.

(heh...and its not my preference towards male made music or anything).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 18 October 2002 14:31 (twenty-three years ago)

right. lil' kim is only in an article on the inside. but she beats mary j. anyway.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 18 October 2002 18:11 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm a Makers Mark man, myself.

Excellent stuff. I usually go for that and Knob Creek.

― Jody Beth Rosen, Friday, 18 October 2002 18:17 (twenty-three years ago)

note: bourbon can only be called bourbon if it's from Kentucky

A decent page on what divides a bourbon from a rye from a corn whiskey. And if your making Bourbon but run the water througha charcol filter and your the owner of Jack Daniels Distellery then that makes it "Tennessee Sippin Whiskey" and not bourbon.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 18 October 2002 19:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Okay. Enough hard liquour trivia, lets get back to the issue at hand. Specifically, Issue #908.
Who here thinks it would've been hysterically funny if they had put some lebsian folksingers with unshaven legs as the cover pic and titled it "The All-Womyn Issue"

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Saturday, 19 October 2002 14:11 (twenty-three years ago)

You LC.

― Tom (Groke), Saturday, 19 October 2002 14:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I still insist: The All Womyn Issue is the wave of the future.

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Saturday, 19 October 2002 15:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Only if 1992 is the future.

― James Blount (James Blount), Saturday, 19 October 2002 20:00 (twenty-three years ago)

amelia fletcher,helen love and angie tillet should have been on the cover.

― keith (keithmcl), Saturday, 19 October 2002 21:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Only if 1992 is the future.
After the fickle public tires of Britney Clones there will be eighty bazillion Ani DiFranco Clones. The pendulum always swings back. It is an inevitable as the tide.
And in 5 years, more neo-Britneys. (Hint: Britney is just another Debbie Gibson, who is another Janis Ian, who is another Buffy Saint Marie, who is another Debbie Boone, who is another...; Just as Ani DiFranco is another Suzanne Vega, who is another Laura Nyro, who is another...)

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Sunday, 20 October 2002 02:29 (twenty-three years ago)

uh, no.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 20 October 2002 08:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Janis Ian

I once compared (a teenage) Fiona Apple to a teenage Janis Ian and everyone told me to shut the fuck up.

― Jody Beth Rosen, Sunday, 20 October 2002 08:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Okay first off Debbie wrote her own songs. Second they were decidedly asexual. Third, they were dance first and pop second. Fourth, she tried the Christina Aguilara route of career advancement and jumped into R&B/Rap hybrids (early 90s so called "urban) before people were into this and flopped. Fifth, she had no real personality-based marketing of the same WWF-epic storyarcs of Britney.

Do you think there are only two categories of girl-singers -- those who sing about love and those who sing about abuse or something? How do you explain "The Story of Beauty" by Destiny's Child then, or Suzanne Vega's dane remixes or etc.?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 20 October 2002 08:58 (twenty-three years ago)

i used to like rolling stone years back. this is one reason why i stopped buying it.

I admire your perversity.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 20 October 2002 11:45 (twenty-three years ago)

N, you're too clever by ha.. make that three quarters.

― Kim (Kim), Sunday, 20 October 2002 14:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Okay first off Debbie....
Debbie Boone?
Okay first off Debbie wrote her own songs.
I keep flashing beack to the Bill Hicks routine about Debbie Gibson. ("and whats her new song called? 'Mom, Why am I Bleeding?' ")

Do you think there are only two categories of girl-singers -- those who sing about love and those who sing about abuse or something?
Nope. I'm saying that Britney and Debbie seem to fill the same niche. Britney is, granted, much much bigger and more successful. But still, they seem to serve the same function.
How do you explain "The Story of Beauty" by Destiny's Child then, or Suzanne Vega's dane remixes or etc.?
I don't. I'm sticking to just dealing with Britney and Debbie. (all the parenthetical stuff is just me thinking out loud. I'm not sure whether I believe in it or not. I jus threw the idea out to see what agreements or rebuttals it would generate.)

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Sunday, 20 October 2002 23:49 (twenty-three years ago)

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