HOT STOVE LEAGUE 2K4/2K5

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I think the Pirate fans would revolt if they dealt off Perez and Bay, they are who they need to build up the club around. I saw Perez pitch four times last year on TV and was very impressed, he could be a star.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 22 November 2004 20:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Gygax OTM ... in fact, the A's will be bending their modus operandi if they sign even ONE of the Big 3. And it's no longer remotely obvious that Zito is "one of the best."

Kendall DID lead NL catchers in VORP last year (trailing Pudge, Javy, Posada, Martinez and Varitek in the AL).

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 November 2004 20:54 (nineteen years ago) link

the departure of longtime Oakland pitching coach/trainer

You're talking about Rick "Kazmir Ain't Spit" Peterson, right?

Yanc3, I think he's counting Harden as 1 of the 4 - Saarloos got starts when one of the 3 went on the DL. I was under the impression that Redman had a solid #5 type of year, but I could be wrong.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 22 November 2004 20:54 (nineteen years ago) link

you don't count harden????

Oh no I do!!! It's just that nobody else seems to ("Big Three this and that"), Harden outpitched Zito last year.

Oliver Perez reminds me a little bit of Johan. Esp. the change when it's working.

And yes, Redman as their #5 guy is pretty solid.

Here are the Sacramento Rivercats (NOTE: hitter-friendly PCL, it would be nice to see these adjusted) pitching stats:

http://rivercats.com/game/stats/?type=pitching

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 22 November 2004 21:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Damn.... look at those K/BB ratios.

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 22 November 2004 21:10 (nineteen years ago) link

haha, or W/KO ratios in this case...

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 22 November 2004 21:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh no I do!!! It's just that nobody else seems to ("Big Three this and that"), Harden outpitched Zito last year.

Zito hasn't shown much of the excellence that he showed up to and including his CY year. His reputation far exceeds his ability at this point, and Beane surely has recognized the slow slide in his performance over the last couple of years. I'll be shocked if Zito doesn't get dealt soon.

Is Rick Peterson some sort of conditioning wizard? Oakland's pitching was great up until around the end of July, then everybody became ass all at once. So ... was this just bad luck, or a mark of bad coaching/preparation?

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 22 November 2004 22:48 (nineteen years ago) link

The Yomiuri Giants, perhaps shamed by their post-Gozirra (Matsui) disappointment, sign Gabe Kapler to a one year deal.

Kapler first to bolt World Series champions

November 22, 2004

BOSTON (AP) -- Gabe Kapler became the first player to leave the World Series champion Boston Red Sox, agreeing to a one-year contract with the Yomiuri Giants in Tokyo.

``He spent the better part of a week really agonizing over the decision,'' agent Paul Cohen said Monday. ``He really felt at this point in his career, he wanted the guarantee to play.''

Kapler, 29, was a backup on the Red Sox team that won the AL wild-card berth, then came back from a 3-0 deficit to beat the New York Yankees in the AL championship series. Boston swept St. Louis in the World Series, with Kapler going 0-for-2 and appearing in all four games.

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Kapler, among 16 Boston players who became free agents, was a full-time player for three seasons, the last in 2001, when he played 134 games for Texas. He joined Boston from Colorado during the 2003 season and appeared in 63 games with the Red Sox, batting .291.

Last season, he played in 136 games but started only 73 and hit .272 in 290 at bats.

With Manny Ramirez, Johnny Damon and Trot Nixon all under contract, the Red Sox starting outfield seems set for next season. They also have outfielder Dave Roberts, a starter with Los Angeles before Boston acquired him July 31.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 00:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Pedro supposedly wants $60 over 4 years. That's crazy. George, he is all yours.

Did anyone else catch the YES 2K4 Yankee season recap? I only watched a brief snippet (because, y'know, I wanted to have a little gloat, & I was curious as to how they'd address the season's conclusion). The one segment I caught was a roundtable discussion w/ Brian Cashman. Not that it was really a "discussion" - it was more like an interrogation or a hostile exit interview, w/ Michael Kay & Suzyn Waldman asking blunt pointed questions about where things went wrong & how they were going to reload for the upcoming year. As always, BC looked like he just crapped himself, or maybe that's his face of restraint - lord knows I'd be hard pressed to control my temper if I had puppet asshats grilling me about the shortcomings of personnel decisions I possibly had little control over (if only because I imagine George asked the very same questions, albeit in a more profane manner). Should I be surprised that the broadcast tentacle of the Yankee behemoth is exhibiting the same sort of pensive anger and soulless resolve as the mother brain in regards to what happened last year? Should I read anything into the YES Network's endless rebroadcasting of past glories over the last 4 weeks? Am I a hypocrite for painting Los Yanquis as cold haet-filled automotons while I pledge my support to the team that's right behind them in terms of wealth & power & nuclear capabilities?

Also - Suzyn Waldman is joining Andy Capp in the Yankee radio broadcast booth; Mr. Charley Steiner is possibly escaping to the Dodgers' broadcast booth.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 15:58 (nineteen years ago) link


No, Yanqui hatred needs no equivocation.

Cashman's answer to all "what happened" questions should be "Mariano walked the leadoff guy."

The Steiner move is done; Waldman isn't as big a dick (ahem, metaphorically) as Sterling, but her voice thuds on my ears. I'm sure she's in the amen chorus on the Greatness of Jeetah, yes?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:08 (nineteen years ago) link

No doubt - whenever I've seen baseball writers (primarily from BP) railing on YES, it's only a matter of time before Ms. Waldman's name is invoked. I think her greatest asset is her undying loyalty to the cause - directly after the Pedro / Zimmer / Garcia multi-tiered fracas in 2K3, Suzyn could be found reporting from Fenway on the deplorable actions of the Red Sox & Red Sox fans & shame on them & how classless they are as an organization & how could they hire such thugs, as if there was no doubt re: what happened between Garcia, Nelson & the guy in the bullpen. And, of course, after some investigating (gee, investigating - give that a shot, how about it?), it turns out that, hey, y'know, Garcia isn't so squeaky clean.

The few times I heard Yankee games on the radio this past year, Steiner sounded shocking out of place & out of sorts, either because he's not so hot as a radio broadcaster, or because he was trying to fight the implants.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Cashman's answer to all "what happened" questions should be "Mariano walked the leadoff guy."

You know, a walk's as good as a homerun at this point.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 17:47 (nineteen years ago) link

haha, "the last thing they want here is a home run. it'd kill the momentum."

bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 17:59 (nineteen years ago) link

The Twins, not wanting to look too smart for letting Guzman walk, signed Red IF Juan Castro to a 2 year, $2.05M contract. Maybe that wouldn't be so bad, except for the fact that the Twinkies already have 3 or 4 IF options at Castro's level of "performance" that are making a smidge less than $1M per year.

I dare say the Twins are afraid of their farm system. However, someone on Baseball Prospectus posited yesterday that the Twins' questionable handling of prospects (dicking them out of playing time, letting them fester on the bench or in the minors) could be some dastardly cost-cutting measure (to avoid paying contract incentives, perhaps lower the arbitration salary ceiling, etc.) - of course, if they were cutting costs, then please to explain why they're throwing money at Proven Veterans that aren't much of an improvement of their own organization's players.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 20:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Kendall for Redman/Rhodes is the rumor.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh man I would do that in a SECOND if I were Beane. I hope that's true.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 25 November 2004 00:02 (nineteen years ago) link

For me, it would depend a lot on how much salary I could get Pittsburgh to take off my hands. Kendall's going to make around 10 million for the next couple of years and he'll likely never fully regain his pre-injury (pre-bigass contract) form.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 25 November 2004 00:20 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah that's like a third of oakland's payroll

John (jdahlem), Thursday, 25 November 2004 04:57 (nineteen years ago) link

"Kendall is due to make $10 million in 2005, $11 million in 2006 and $13 million in 2007, the final three seasons of the $60 million deal he signed just before the Pirates moved into PNC Park in 2001. The sides were discussing how much of the deal Pittsburgh would assume, the official said."

Oh man I don't see how this isn't pure gold for the A's (I mean assuming health and all that and that the Pirates assume a good part of this stupid back-weighted contract.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 25 November 2004 17:46 (nineteen years ago) link

seems like jason kendall at bargain-price would be worth more than redman and rhodes to me.

John (jdahlem), Friday, 26 November 2004 03:41 (nineteen years ago) link

since the kendall talk has been kicking around here for a bit, was it always presumed that the a's were going to let damian miller walk or is kendall going to be another catcher converted?

jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Friday, 26 November 2004 15:45 (nineteen years ago) link

Miller's walking already. He's just waiting to clear Milwaukee's physical exam, I believe.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 26 November 2004 17:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Looks like Carlos Delgado is probably going to Seattle, which should be a big pickup for that team as they had so little power last season. They would still need quite a bit of help in the pitching staff, but Delgado would be a start.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Friday, 26 November 2004 20:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Well it's done. Assuming health and all that, this is great deal for the A's (I am assuming that Pittsburgh is eating a large part of the final year of that ridiculous contract.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 27 November 2004 18:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Pittsburgh pays $5M of Kendall's 13 in 2007.


Pedro to Mets? Good idea?

http://doc-baseball.blogspot.com/2004/11/to-pedro-or-not-to-pedro.html

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 29 November 2004 19:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Pittsburgh pays $5M of Kendall's 13 in 2007.

but Oakland pays $1M and $2M for Kendall in 2005 & 2006 so a net $2M contribution from PIT and if Kendall gets traded again (with OAK, a high possibility), they pay nothing.

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 29 November 2004 20:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Damian Miller signs with the Brewers.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 00:16 (nineteen years ago) link

but Oakland pays $1M and $2M for Kendall in 2005 & 2006
Huh?
You mean the "net" pay for Kendall (i.e. Kendall's salary - Redman's salary - Rhodes' salary) is $1M?

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

local boy miller
returns home to brewerland
we are all happy

Haibun (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 01:54 (nineteen years ago) link

No no... for Kendall alone: Oak pays $1M (05) + $2M (06) - PIT $5M (07) = Net $2M from PIT to OAK... Oakland is bound to trade Kendall anyway so Pittsburgh won't have to worry about that $5M on the back end.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 01:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Not a deal per se, but the Blue Jays ownership bought Skydome today for $25M CDN, which is about four cents on the dollar compared to the cost of building it ($600M CDN in 1989, I'm not sure if that number is adjusted for inflation, but still).

Apparently the Jays were the only MLB club that didn't have full operating control over its stadium.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 04:17 (nineteen years ago) link

SF signs Benitez to $21M over 3 yrs.

sf chronicle article

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 15:21 (nineteen years ago) link

WHOA!

My gut tells me that the Giants just bought the services of the Armando that no one likes, not the Armando happily toiling in relative obscurity in Florida. Even if they were getting the good Armando, I'm not sure he's worth $7M - I'm guessing most of that paycheck is to (briefly) allay the bullpen fears of San Fran fans.

At this rate, Nomah might be able to swing $15M, and Ordonez can probably sucker a team into a $80M / 5 year deal. (Granted, I'm exaggerating a bit, but this off-season doesn't seem as fiscally responsible as last year's.) (I could be mistaken.)

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 15:31 (nineteen years ago) link

FWIW: They paid Robb Nen $17 over the last 2yrs. and he never threw a pitch. Hopefully they will put an injury clause in Benitez' contract. At this scale, Benitez is to double his salary from 2004.

Also, the article mentions a lefty in the works for the Giants... hmmmm... any speculations? Their targeted salary of $79-80M looks to be in jeopardy unless they start dealing away some of their higher paid players.

PROS:
Benitez reminds me of Nen: 3 solid pitches with a high 90s fastball, a low 90s slider and a decent 3rd pitch. He's coming off a career year which is always risky, but could pay dividends for the Giants who haven't had a legitimate closer since 2002.

CONS:
His OPS allowed of .475 last year seems impossible to duplicate (Gagne allowed .508 in 04) but maybe playing half his games in PacBell will be similar to playing half his games in ProPlayer. His steady decline of K/9 (while still high at 8.01) spells trouble (although his control is much better than earlier in his career, eg: his WHIP was less than 1 for the first time in his career in 04).

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 15:45 (nineteen years ago) link

not the Armando happily toiling in relative obscurity in Florida.

Yeah, the obscure Defending World Champion Marlins.

At this rate, Nomah might be able to swing $15M, and Ordonez can probably sucker a team into a $80M / 5 year deal. (Granted, I'm exaggerating a bit, but this off-season doesn't seem as fiscally responsible as last year's.) (I could be mistaken.)

Ordonez might hit the jackpot if he gets a deal equal to Tejada ($72M/6) but I highly doubt Nomar is going to command 8 digits. Whereas Ordonez has a shot at regaining his pre-injury form, I don't think anyone considers Nomar anywhere near allstar ability.

Remember, Benitez is coming off a season where he was arguably was one of the top 3-4 closers in the game. He had the lowest ERA in the majors, the 2nd highest amount of saves in the NL, blew less saves then anyone not named Gagne in the NL. He is not some hobbly gimp who got benched in favor of Neifi Perez at times late last season.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 16:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, the obscure Defending World Champion Marlins.

Touche, duder, but the few times I recall folks mentioning their World Series win, it was as an "oh, by the way" afterthought. Either no one gave a spank, or the Marlins need better PR.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 17:06 (nineteen years ago) link

I like Benitez and he's a VAST improvement over anyone else the Giants had last year, but another THREE YEAR contract?!?! Good lord that's iffy.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 18:40 (nineteen years ago) link

"Ordonez might hit the jackpot if he gets a deal equal to Tejada ($72M/6) but I highly doubt Nomar is going to command 8 digits. Whereas Ordonez has a shot at regaining his pre-injury form, I don't think anyone considers Nomar anywhere near allstar ability."

I'd be shocked if either of these guys get 2 years (esp. Nomar.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 18:41 (nineteen years ago) link

from another report:

Benitez has struggled at SBC Park, however, with a 4.91 ERA in five appearances. Furthermore, Benitez will be remembered most for allowing a dramatic three-run, pinch-hit home run to J.T. Snow in the ninth inning of Game 2 of the 2000 NLDS in San Francisco. The Giants, however, lost to the Mets 5-4 in 10 innings and blew a chance to take a 2-0 lead in the series, which they lost in four games.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 18:43 (nineteen years ago) link

"The Red Sox reportedly have offered Martinez a two-year, $25.5 million contract with a vesting option for 2007 that would kick in if the right-hander remains healthy. The Mets countered late Sunday with a three-year guaranteed contract worth approximately $38 million with a vesting option for a fourth year."

from ESPN

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 21:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Well I am guessing the Sox won't match that.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 21:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Indeed. The Mets are crazy.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 22:19 (nineteen years ago) link

AGAIN!!!

Pedro Martinez - $90M/7yrs = $12.86M/yr

$38/3yrs = $12.66M/yr

= -1.5% decline

He made over $18M (with bonuses) last year for the Red Sox!!!

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 22:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Gygax! you are crazy. Pedro mk2005 is not Pedro mk1997.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 22:33 (nineteen years ago) link

is he not the premiere pitcher on the free agency market? does he not have a world series ring (not bad, a 3-hit 7 inning shutout in the world series)? he could win 20 games in the NL East easy.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 22:43 (nineteen years ago) link

is he not the premiere pitcher on the free agency market?
Sure, if he's healthy, and that's a HUGE "if" these days.

does he not have a world series ring (not bad, a 3-hit 7 inning shutout in the world series)?
Has Joe Morgan hijacked gygax's ILX account? The fact that he won a WS this year with by far the best team he's ever played on has nothing to do with the fact that he's not the pitcher he was in 1999 (when he was dominant in the playoffs, unlike this year save one WS game), or even 2002.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 22:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Yes, he is all those things, BUT he's still not even close to the same pitcher he was 7 years ago so pretending those salary numbers are in any way equivalent is just inane.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 22:51 (nineteen years ago) link

Wait wait wait wait MiR, so it's about how many runs the Red Sox scored in the World Series, but certainly not the fact that Pedro threw a 3 hit 7 inning shutout in the World Series? Or should he solely be judged on his starts against the $192M salary Yankees?

You guys are being unfair to discount inflation so heavily as well.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 22:56 (nineteen years ago) link

"You guys are being unfair to discount inflation so heavily as well."

What makes you think there has been a lot of permanent inflation between 1997 and 2004 (obv at various points things were very inflated, but I not so sure things haven't stabilized at roughly the same point they were around then)?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 23:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Never mind inflation, I'm talking about Market Value 2004 vs Market Value 1997. Nobody's getting the 6yr+ contracts that were so common in the late 90's. Nobody's getting $15M+/yr either. Pedro's 2004 market value is in the $10-$13M range assuming he's healthy (which is far from a certainty, particularly over a three-year span).

Re: playoffs, Pedro had a 4.00 ERA this year in 27 IP. That's good (considering the higher level of competition) but not great, and not the kind of performance that makes you spend a few million more per year plus an extra year on the contract just to make sure you get that particular guy.

In the 1999 playoffs he was a lot better, and of course was a better pitcher then too. And five years younger. And on the DL four or five fewer times.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 23:16 (nineteen years ago) link


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