HOT STOVE LEAGUE 2K4/2K5

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but sometimes even smart GMs have to concede to the reality of the market. and (while it might not be true if he wants to stay in boston badly enough) if you don't offer pedro a third year, you're not going to sign him. that may be perfectly acceptable, or it may not. it depends on your situation and you aspirations.

sure pedro's past his peak, but then his peak was a level on par with anything in the history of baseball, so...

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 19:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Rewind OTM... Mussina 2000 was 5th in AL in Adjusted ERA, 3rd in raw ERA & strikeouts.

Pedro lookin' like Glavine 2 winters ago. The issue is he's likely to be WAY past his prime halfway through a 4-year contract, and/or a 170-inning pitcher.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 19:51 (nineteen years ago) link

Randy Johnson: Trade Talk With Boston

RotoWire.com Staff - RotoWire.com
Wednesday, December 1, 2004
Update: The Red Sox and Diamondbacks have held numerous discussions involving Johnson in the last five days, the Providence Journal reports. Arizona is looking for a package that would include Bronson Arroyo, pitching prospect Jon Lester and at least one other top prospect.

Recommendation: A trade for Johnson, who may request an extension past 2005 in exchange for approving a trade to Boston, would likely preclude the Red Sox from re-signing Pedro Martinez, who has received a three-year offer from the Mets.



Earl Nash (earlnash), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 20:01 (nineteen years ago) link

so doc and mir: what exactly do you think pedro deserves? just what the sox offered him? i doubt that was a take it or leave it offer, though with the way the sox operate it could've been. but i don't think one year is going to keep the red sox from signing pedro. and i don't think it's realistic to expect a 33 year old ace to get no more than 2 years guaranteed.

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 20:50 (nineteen years ago) link

also earl, that's apparently old news: the rumor of note right now is that johnson to NYY is imminent, with arizona receiving, i shit thee not, javier vazquez, tom gordon, eric duncan (yanks #1 prospect), and 12M dollars.

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 21:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Good lord that's seems crazy. I mean I know that Steinbrenner has a lot of money, but that just seems impossibly silly.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 21:13 (nineteen years ago) link

you're not kidding. fucking insane. oh, and there was something about giving johnson an extension too. i mean you could keep vazquez, gordon, and duncan and sign pavano AND clement for that money. or go after pedro, save yourself 20M or whatever, spite your rival and end up with a bona fide ace who also happens to be like a decade younger.

i hope this is bogus.

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 21:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Is Duncan a legit prospect, or is he the beneficiary of Steinbrenner's minor-league trade-bait downsizing?

Other problems - what happens to the bullpen if their 2nd best guy goes west?

I hope the rumor's bogus, but I also hope it's not (for obvious, gleeful reasons) (tee hee).

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 21:46 (nineteen years ago) link

I think Pedro deserves less than he'll take. I can't imagine a team --Red Sox, Mets, Angels -- that can't squeeze more wins out of that many dollars for the next 3-4 years from other players.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 21:59 (nineteen years ago) link

That Unit-NYY deal is insane, if true. It's so insane, I'm having serious trouble believing it.

Doc OTM re Pedro. A fair offer, IMO, is 2Y/25M guaranteed, with a third year extension to kick in automatically if he pitches more than 200 innings in 2006. I'm glad I'm not Theo Epstein -- how would YOU like to explain to Pedro "we think you're a risky signing because of your injuries so we have to offer you less". I'm pretty sure Pedro would balk at an offer like the one I proposed.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 22:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Is the lefty the Giants are supposedly after a reliever or a starter?

Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 22:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Supposedly a set-up guy but I'm trying to think of any available lefty relievers.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 22:42 (nineteen years ago) link

to be honest, i'm not sure i'd even want to see vazquez for RJ straight up, with no money changing hands. it's apparently a gammons rumor, btw.

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 22:45 (nineteen years ago) link

PG is hepped up on Kay Hanley's stash, it seems.

(Stop thinking that, you pervs.)

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 22:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Steve "pigpen" Kline - free agent lefty reliever. heard the Yanks were thinking about him.

bnw (bnw), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:09 (nineteen years ago) link

we heard something slightly different...

'A baseball official told MLB.com that Arizona is asking for Javier Vazquez and cash considerations to put toward his three-year, $34.5 million contract, as well as prospects Eric Duncan and Chien-Ming Wang. In addition to the three players and the cash, Arizona wants the Yankees to deal for one of Oakland's "Big Three" of Barry Zito, Tim Hudson and Mark Mulder, and include that pitcher in the trade as well.'

maura (maura), Thursday, 2 December 2004 01:49 (nineteen years ago) link

all i can say is:

haha!

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 2 December 2004 02:19 (nineteen years ago) link

WHOA

Where was this ball-busting when the Red Sox came acallin' for Schilling?

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 2 December 2004 02:46 (nineteen years ago) link

well, so much for that.

maura (maura), Thursday, 2 December 2004 02:48 (nineteen years ago) link

the deal's dead. check this shit out:
Arizona asked for Vazquez, $18.5 million, four or five prospects, and a pitcher from a list of 10: Oakland's Tim Hudson and Barry Zito, Florida's A.J. Burnett, Detroit's Jeremy Bonderman, Toronto's Ted Lilly, Los Angeles' Edwin Jackson, Tampa Bay's Scott Kazmir, Colorado's Shawn Chacon and Jason Jennings, and Texas' Kenny Rogers.

like ... wha???

http://www.nj.com/sportsflash/baseball/index.ssf?/base/sports-8/1101953654167491.xml&storylist=baseball

maura (maura), Thursday, 2 December 2004 02:53 (nineteen years ago) link

whoa. i thought w/ colangelo gone that shit was over with. i guess garagiola was more than a pawn?

don't be surprised if he's traded to boston for bronson arroyo and a prospect.

John (jdahlem), Thursday, 2 December 2004 03:19 (nineteen years ago) link

(remember that az asked for nick johnson (who's value was ultra-high at the time) AND soriano for schilling last year before trading him to the sox for casey fossum and that one AAAA pitcher. er. 2 AAAA pitchers. i have a whole thread devoted to that fucking trade somewhere)

John (jdahlem), Thursday, 2 December 2004 03:22 (nineteen years ago) link

(we know)

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 2 December 2004 03:59 (nineteen years ago) link

it's never gonna stop, man

John (jdahlem), Thursday, 2 December 2004 05:32 (nineteen years ago) link

RANDY JOHNSON TO BOSTON FOR SHEA HILLENBRAND!!!!

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 2 December 2004 17:47 (nineteen years ago) link

What ever happened to BHK?

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 2 December 2004 17:59 (nineteen years ago) link

yanc3y freaked me the fuck out for like .6 seconds there.

RUMOR HAS IT the yankees offered JON LIEBER a 3 year 21M contract and are close to netting ERIC MILTON. cuz (mediorcre) PITCHING WINS!!!

John (jdahlem), Thursday, 2 December 2004 18:50 (nineteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
Reviving ILB ...

According to Andrew, the last 17 days of posts have been unfortunately lost ...

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 00:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I think it may've also erased the RJ deal!

The boobs previously known as Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 01:14 (nineteen years ago) link

lupica has his revenge.

this reminds me over the weekend on sportsradio i heard some jackass going on in the wake of the mulder trade (btw wow) about how 'moneyball doesn't work' and how 'when theo epstein finally tossed all that bill james nonsense aside the red sox finally won' and how 'oakland isn't committed to winning' and, wait for it, 'they need to be like the mets and show their fans they're willing to spend what it takes to win'

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 03:21 (nineteen years ago) link

blount please remind me
why you listen to morons
and (more) why you care

Haibun (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 03:49 (nineteen years ago) link

It's the same reason why we read John Kruk's columns -- we love a good train wreck every now and then.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 03:57 (nineteen years ago) link

god bless ilx's shitty servers!!!

John (jdahlem), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 05:07 (nineteen years ago) link

scores and headlines every twenty minutes dude!

cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 05:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Cubs please trade Sammy
All I want for Christmas now
Is the stud Beltran

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 07:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Ditto, jeez.

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 09:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Doc, I think your worse fears will come to be realized. Sportscenter had some video from Sammy's wedding vow renewal down south and Omar V. was shown in a tux at the ceremony. Appearantly the current Met GM was the guy who first scouted and signed him.

Shawn Green didn't want to leave LA, so him holding up that trade probably got his wish not to leave. Appearantly the sports talk radio and local writers were frying DiPodesta over this potential trade and losing Beltre, so the Dodgers got cold feet.

Considering how poorly Mulder pitched down the stretch, maybe there is something they know and are getting rid of him while he has high value. Danny Haren looked like he had pretty good stuff in the playoffs, whether or not that will translate into being a good starter, I don't know.

The A's could be like the Reds, who give away all of their spare talent for people that do nothing. The Reds big moves this off season are getting Ramon Ortiz, signing Shawn Estes and Kent Mercker. They need pitching, but oh well...someone has to pitch.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 10:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Gammons (and Beane)on the whys of the Mulder trade:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1949178


Mulder and Hudson are due a combined $3.8 million more in '05; between that and TH's impending free agency, end of story, nearly.

The Minaya-Sosa relationship is well documented, but the Mets' strategy summarized in today's Times is Beltran + budget 1b (Olerud or, sigh, Minky) OR Delgado + Alou.

Jay Payton takes Kapler's spot as Fenway's Body Beautiful.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 14:22 (nineteen years ago) link

How quickly we forget David Ortiz!

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 14:47 (nineteen years ago) link

yay! the orioles finally did something good. steve kline is hardly the impact signing i'd have hoped for by now, but he's a good pick up.

jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 15:19 (nineteen years ago) link

foxxxxxxxy mulder, i think i lub you. I wonder if X-stein will be a Redbird soon? Or will the Cardnials just put two orange cones up at 2b & SS, and if the ball hits them it's an out?

bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 15:57 (nineteen years ago) link

wade miller, free agent.

anybody know what his re-hab outlook is like? might not be a bad pitcher for someone to take a flyer on.

jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 18:10 (nineteen years ago) link

BP says of LA's role in the Unit whopper:

"...the New York Daily News has reported that the Dodgers would then spin Vazquez to the Chicago White Sox for a package consisting of first baseman Paul Konerko, starter Jon Garland and lefty reliever Damaso Marte. Sox GM Kenny Williams has denied his team's involvement in the deal, while Dodger GM Paul DePodesta has said that his team's role is contingent on subsequent moves being in place."


Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:04 (nineteen years ago) link

just vazquez for those 3? kenny williams has some problems.

jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:28 (nineteen years ago) link

This is one of the most complicated deals ever.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Cabrera to the Angels for 4yrs/$32m yesterday. Bye bye Eckstein.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 19:37 (nineteen years ago) link

4yrs/$32m? Did they think they were getting the other Cabrera?

bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 20:52 (nineteen years ago) link


just vazquez for those 3? kenny williams has some problems.

Nah, that would be crazy. It's just a dumb rumor, and kw laughed it off a couple of days ago (in local Chicago media).

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 21:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Odalis Perez to the Mariners for a 3 year contract worth more than 18 milliion (which is what the Nats offered).

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 21 December 2004 22:15 (nineteen years ago) link

So the Randy deal is dead (pt II). Apparently Vazquez refused to fly to L.A. to take a physical, didn't want to play for L.A., and that was the ultimate torpedo that sank this one. Strange.

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 02:37 (nineteen years ago) link


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