HOT STOVE LEAGUE 2K4/2K5

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Eric Byrnes (OAK) for Mike Cameron (NYM)

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 January 2005 17:46 (nineteen years ago) link

steve nash is the second of two great white hopes produced by my alma mater, santa clara university. god bless him and his socialist tendencies and rediculous haircuts.

― Juan, the Magic Don (jingleberries), Thursday, 20 January 2005 17:59 (nineteen years ago) link

underwhelming is not the same as awful. at this point, striving to be merely whelmed seems an impossibility, though.

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Thursday, 20 January 2005 18:33 (nineteen years ago) link

byrnes + bradford for cameron is an AWFUL trade. i dunno what billy is thinking.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 20 January 2005 20:32 (nineteen years ago) link

I can tell you what he is thinking: Defense - the new Moneyball.

And supposedly Mulder and Hudson were the worst defensive pitchers so there you go.

But seriously, Mike Cameron can hit and is an excellent centerfielder (Ichiro STILL misses MC). Discounting the upside, I think Byrnes' and Cameron's career OPS are both around .800.

And Bradford's supposedly not part of the trade.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 January 2005 20:40 (nineteen years ago) link

if bradford were not part of the trade then it's not too bad, but pointing out one teeball game hardly makes cameron a hitter! is byrnes a defensive liability? i thought kotsay was also rated one of the best defensive centerfielders in baseball. and furthermore, doesn't cameron have a big contract?

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 20 January 2005 20:45 (nineteen years ago) link

Maybe it has something to do w/ Kotsay's chronic back troubles? Also, for pure fly-shagging potential, Kotsay + Cameron >= Byrnes + Kotsay. Byrnes had a bit of a rep for being a wanderlustin' butcher boy. (Who the heck is playing RF?)

From my understanding, Cam has only 1 year left, is a decent enough hitter (what's his line the last few years - .260 / .350 / .450?) whose value is boosted overall because of his defensive prowess (hey, look, received knowledge!) (though he looked VERY BAD @ times last year - dunno if it was injuries or what). Also, there's the very real possibility that Byrnes' year (or last two years) = fluke.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 20 January 2005 20:56 (nineteen years ago) link

(Who the heck is playing RF?)

2005 ALROY Nick Swisher

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:09 (nineteen years ago) link

I hope all the announcers have their "FROM WAY DOWNTOWN" calls ready.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 20 January 2005 21:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Cameron gets about 6M a year.

I don't trust that Beane...

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:13 (nineteen years ago) link

At least his trade record (cf. Keith Foulke, Octavio Dotel, J-Dye, J-Damon, Mr. Durazo) is better than his free agent record (cf. T-Long, Arthur Rhodes, your momma). I have undying faith that the A's will do what they've been doing for the past 4 years. (Said faith might shrivel up @ a moment's notice, though.)

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Haha yeah somehow I am convinced that however this trade works out it will be bad for the Mets (I am amazed they even take Beane's phone calls anymore.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:31 (nineteen years ago) link

I can see Eric Byrnes appealing to Lenny Dykstra's fanbase (perhaps without the gambling addiction and CroMagnon vocabulary).

Still gax, this is not a done deal!

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 20 January 2005 22:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Beane responds to "absolute fiction" trade rumors

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 January 2005 23:21 (nineteen years ago) link

It doesn't suprise me that Eric Byrnes is coming up in trade rumors because he was quoted as questioning these off season trades and A's management remembers him blowing that play at the plate two years ago in the playoffs.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Thursday, 20 January 2005 23:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Not to mention he's horribly overrated!

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 January 2005 23:57 (nineteen years ago) link

He's a Rex Hudler for the 00s!

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 21 January 2005 00:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Newsday confirms that the Mets would presumably have to pay most of Cameron's salary IF the A's wanted him -- which defeats the point of moving him.

Byrnes is a good 3-1/2th-4th outfielder.

I don't recall Beane rooking the Mets aside from Billy Taylor for... *loses consciousness*

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 21 January 2005 14:12 (nineteen years ago) link

What? Terrence Long is spam! Who else did they get? (No, really, this isn't me going for the ribs - I forgot!)

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 21 January 2005 15:18 (nineteen years ago) link

EIGHTEEN MILLION for one more year of rice barrels. Sweet crap.

Also, I just Googl'd re: Billy Taylor - ouch.

― David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 22 January 2005 18:42 (nineteen years ago) link

I was really thinking that if the Indians got some help in the bullpen they could make a playoff run. They did get Kevin Millwood, which should eat up a bunch of innings and provide them with a somewhat competent starting staff. The Tribe really needs help at closer and setup. They also signed Juan Gone to a minor league deal, which could perhaps pay off if he can himself together. I tend to doubt that he has another decent season in him, as Gonzales cannot stay healthy, but you never know.

Overall the Indians have improved a bit on paper. Enough to contend, I don't know about that one. It seems the Twins and Sox are not getting any better, so they might have a shot.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Saturday, 22 January 2005 21:08 (nineteen years ago) link

Lenny Dykstra stormed my office a month ago. The exchange was surreal.

― Juan, the Magic Don (jingleberries), Monday, 24 January 2005 00:19 (nineteen years ago) link

details pls

― John (jdahlem), Monday, 24 January 2005 00:20 (nineteen years ago) link

NYT reports Delgado has eliminated Texas, Mets & Marlins remain.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 January 2005 14:52 (nineteen years ago) link

ha!

wapo and bawlamer sun report delgado has eliminated tx, mets have dropped out, o's & marlins remain.

spinsanity!

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Monday, 24 January 2005 15:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Baltimore's deal is reported to be way bigger than Florida's (and for 4y vs 3y). I don't think I could take Delgado playing in the same division as the Jays. That would hurt.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 24 January 2005 17:57 (nineteen years ago) link

Astros sign John Franco for $700 G. Heehee...

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 January 2005 17:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Mets are back in Delgadomania, says yahoo.

― bnw (bnw), Monday, 24 January 2005 18:11 (nineteen years ago) link

What I really want to know: who the hell is inflicted w/ Ordonezitis?

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 24 January 2005 18:17 (nineteen years ago) link

sheesh - AFFLICTED!

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 24 January 2005 18:18 (nineteen years ago) link

I dont really want to get into too much Lenny detail, but lets just say hes constantly smoking/drinking coffee and is generally agitated at all times.

― Juan, the Magic Don (jingleberries), Monday, 24 January 2005 18:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Tell him to give Jeff Kent a good deal on washing his truck so that Kent doesn't have to ~~run into curbs while popping wheelies on his motorcycle in San Jose~~.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 24 January 2005 18:56 (nineteen years ago) link

he does have sweet carwashes, this I know.

― Juan, the Magic Don (jingleberries), Monday, 24 January 2005 20:47 (nineteen years ago) link

A list of pitchers to watch this year, from Will Carrol's last BP article:

"Want some pitchers to worry about? One key negative "tell" from the classic book 'The Diamond Appraised' is a declining strikeout rate year after year.Here's the list of pitchers who had more than 20 starts in each year from 2002-2004 and had declining K/9 in that period: Matt Morris, Kerry Wood, Brian Anderson, Miguel Batista, Curt Schilling, Kaz Ishii, Odalis Perez, Javier Vazquez, Livan Hernandez, Russ Ortiz, Josh Beckett, Carl Pavano, Brad Penny, Al Leiter, Brett Tomko, Randy Wolf, Tim Hudson, Mark Mulder, Pedro Martinez, Sidney Ponson, Jon Garland and Mike Mussina."

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 01:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Okay, Delgado goes to the Marlins... $52M/4yrs. yowza... going to a serious pitcher's park as well.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 00:55 (nineteen years ago) link

Delgado's bat inbetween Cabrera and Lowell looks impressive on paper, considering they combined to hit over 90 HRs last year. They will have to replace Pavano and hope that Mota can handle being a closer.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 01:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Could someone please tell me why the Marlins traded away Derek Lee before last year?

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 01:19 (nineteen years ago) link

HEE SEOP CHOI

(i know that only partially answers your question, but i think there was payroll issues)

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 01:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Even in a pitcher's park, the Marlins got a great deal with Delgado. Compare his deal with, say, Thome's. Their stats match up quite well, and Thome signed his deal when the market was less insane than it is now. The Marlins did well.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 01:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah assuming Delgado stays healthy this seems like a steal to me.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 02:11 (nineteen years ago) link

I hope that dropping $52M over 4 years for Delgado means those "money issues" are solved. (Baseball teams are so full of it.) As for replacing Pavano - if they get 25+ starts each from Beckett and Burnett, and decent 4th-starter-level work from Leiter and Valdez, that'll more than make up for Pavano's absence.

I dare say the NL East race is actually going to be a good one this year! The Braves might only take it by 5!

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 03:37 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm just glad he's not going to be in Baltimore.

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 04:15 (nineteen years ago) link

So now Mets go after No-Hit Minky. Fuckity fuck.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1975414

Maybe they'll put the Bosox WS ball on display at Shea! Or he'll hafta platoon with a reborn Galarraga and/or flukish Jason Phillips.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 14:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Today's buzzword is DEFENSE.

As in, "With Minky, the Mets' infield defense will be vastly improved."

Or as in, "Dr. Morbius will get defensive if folks razz about the Mets acquiring a no-hit tarp."

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 14:38 (nineteen years ago) link

i read that delgado's contract is seriously backloaded, though. i think it's $4 million this year and escalates to $17 & 18 million in years 2 & 3 w/ an buyout option. the contract more resembles an nfl capsanity contract.

gee. what do you think the chances are he plays all 4 years in florida?

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 14:44 (nineteen years ago) link

$4 million?

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 15:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Let me work this out on paper:

2004: $4M
2005: $17M (cum: $21M)
2006: $18M (cum: $39M)
2007: $13M (cum: $52M) - i'm assuming it's a team option?

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 15:06 (nineteen years ago) link

actually, my numbers are off a little, but the 4 million for year 1 is accurate. i guess the option is for a fifth year which is guaranteed if del-g meets certain targets? if he doesn't meet the targets, the team can exercise a 12 million buyout or del-g can get out w/ 4 million...it's a funky contract.

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 17:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Aren't the Mets talking about getting Olerud (if they haven't already)?

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 18:19 (nineteen years ago) link

That's the craziest backloading I've ever seen. Which players do the Marlins need to get off the books in 2005?

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 26 January 2005 18:37 (nineteen years ago) link

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