OT, sorry, but is there a BABIP-like stat that includes HRs as well?
― obviously DLC (Karl Malone), Friday, 18 May 2018 17:15 (six years ago) link
Yeah the list makes sense, these are the extremes of that trademark and it's fun to identify them but really what I wonder if Harper could become that type as he ages. Basically, he went from .369 to .264 back to .356. to the horror show he is in now. None of these players ever see-sawed the way Harper did, it might that no played ever did.
I think also walks/pitch selection might account in those numbers. For example, Kiner managed to be 16th in OBP that 1948 season, Bautista was 22nd and 11th respectively. Harper right now is at 18th.
Of course, Hank Aaron doesn't really belong to that group and in his case it's more about aging but having a great season than career long method of batting. 1972 he was 38, and over his final 5 seasons he was hovering around a babip of .240.
― Van Horn Street, Friday, 18 May 2018 17:41 (six years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/mcjYk30.png
― obviously DLC (Karl Malone), Saturday, 19 May 2018 21:57 (six years ago) link
We polled hundreds of players across MLB on a variety of subjects. Nearly half of them, granted anonymity, said Bryce Harper is the most overrated player in the game. https://t.co/DGgZt6h3EE— Lindsey Adler (@lindseyadler) July 16, 2018
― mookieproof, Monday, 16 July 2018 18:30 (six years ago) link
i wonder how many future teammates said so
― the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 July 2018 18:31 (six years ago) link
6. Who is the most overrated player in the game?
Top result: Bryce Harper (48.6%)
Runners-up: Chris Davis (10.8%)
Also receiving multiple votes: Javier Báez
Notes: Even anonymously, just over half of the players we polled declined to answer this one — “It’s bad karma,” one said — but among those who did, this was a landslide. As one player told us, it’s not that Harper isn’t talented: “It’s more like guys are kind of tired of him being put up on this pedestal when from a consistency standpoint, he hasn’t sustained it.”
On Báez, one player said, “To a baseball player, a lot of the shit he does is really risky and stupid. When you play against him, you fucking hate watching him. But as a fan, I would want to watch him every single day. I get it.”
― mookieproof, Monday, 16 July 2018 19:12 (six years ago) link
I can't think of anybody else you'd choose. When he's great, he's amazing. He spends a lot of time not being great. Eliminate 2015, and he's more like a underrated player whose walks and HRs add value to an otherwise average batting line.
― clemenza, Monday, 16 July 2018 19:26 (six years ago) link
yeah just those piddling walks and HRs
― the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 July 2018 19:33 (six years ago) link
Excellent translation; that's exactly what I meant.
― clemenza, Monday, 16 July 2018 19:40 (six years ago) link
the point is those categories make up most of a valuable batting line.
― the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 July 2018 19:41 (six years ago) link
(sure Harper's BA is bad this year, but if it was even .250 he'd be one of the 10 most valuable players in the NL)
― the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 July 2018 19:42 (six years ago) link
And if he were hitting .250 and were the 10th most valuable player in the NL, that would probably make him the most overrated player in baseball in the context of how many people treat him as one of the two best (which I've done myself at times).
But he's hitting .214, so that's all speculation.
― clemenza, Monday, 16 July 2018 19:46 (six years ago) link
bref has him at 0.0 WAR this year; fangraphs at 1.5
they both hate his defense
― mookieproof, Monday, 16 July 2018 19:51 (six years ago) link
didn't factor in the Will to Win
― the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 July 2018 19:56 (six years ago) link
Harper's had the one HOF season and the other HOF 2/3 season. as far as the rest of the time, there's no shame in being near-peak Mickey Tettleton.
― omar little, Monday, 16 July 2018 19:59 (six years ago) link
Which was exactly my point: "more like a underrated player whose walks and HRs add value to an otherwise average batting line"--i.e., Mickey Tettleton, an underrated player who hit .241 but drew a lot of walks and hit a fair number of HR (especially era-adjusted).
― clemenza, Monday, 16 July 2018 20:08 (six years ago) link
yeah I would not be thrilled to give him a 400M contract or whatever, but someone will
― k3vin k., Monday, 16 July 2018 22:30 (six years ago) link
So are the Nats out on signing Harper or are they the leading contender?
― earlnash, Monday, 16 July 2018 22:40 (six years ago) link
no idea but i always assumed harper would want to play for bigger crowds in a bigger media market
― Karl Malone, Monday, 16 July 2018 22:44 (six years ago) link
― clemenza, Monday, July 16, 2018 3:46 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
That's what, 5 hits tho?
Not stanning really but *shrug*
― YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 16 July 2018 23:01 (six years ago) link
12 hits right now--in 550 AB, it'd be 20. But if you want to approach the question from that angle, that a few hits don't matter much, then surely those few hits aren't going to move him from a 0.0 WAR to one of the 10 most valuable players in the NL.
I'm not sure if you're saying that he is or isn't overrated.
― clemenza, Monday, 16 July 2018 23:08 (six years ago) link
there are only so many teams that have or would spend the kind of money he wants. the yankees seem to have a pretty full outfield? they could put him at first, but greg bird is *also* hitting .214 this year, and at 1/40th of the cost. the red sox signed jd martinez last winter and have mookie eligible for arbitration this winter. (mookie, btw, is nine days older than harper and is 4.5 bWAR up on him in two fewer seasons.)
the cubs and giants already have $140m on the books for 2019, which doesn't count raises for people like baez and bryant. the dodgers could afford him, but seem relatively unlikely to offer a historic contract for a guy as inconsistent as harper has been.
maybe the phillies? except i'd expect the phillies to be more interested in machado, as should, perhaps, most teams
― mookieproof, Monday, 16 July 2018 23:46 (six years ago) link
The outside club I was thinking is maybe the Rangers. They have dropped some cash on some hitters over the years.
― earlnash, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 01:12 (six years ago) link
― clemenza, Monday, July 16, 2018 7:08 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Wasn’t really saying either. I think his BABIP is really weird this year. I find him fascinating tho also lol this HR derby he’s such a choad
― YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 01:19 (six years ago) link
He's 25. Most guys are enter their prime now. Maybe he's a year late.
― the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 01:22 (six years ago) link
If I had to bet on 2015 or this year being the more anomalous, I'd definitely bet on this year. The list of position players besides Harper who've put up 10-WAR seasons since the war: Yastrzemski, Bonds, Ripken, Mantle, Mays, Musial, Morgan, Williams, Yount, Boudreau, Banks, Trout, A-Rod, Sosa, Rosen, Petrocelli. That's a pretty formidable list. I think at worst he'll have a better career than the last two guys, and they were good. My guess would be that he exceeds his current career slash line (.277/.384/.510) for the next several seasons. But again, I don't know who else you'd name as the most overrated player right now (or even based cumulatively on the last three seasons).
― clemenza, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 04:16 (six years ago) link
But again, I don't know who else you'd name as the most overrated player right now (or even based cumulatively on the last three seasons).
The DH for the Angels has made $24M/yr over the past 3 years while putting up a cumulative -1.1 WAR, and has batted exclusively in the 3rd/4th/5th spot in the lineup.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 04:38 (six years ago) link
Pujols crossed my mind, but is there anyone who still rates him highly (except, I guess, the manager who continues to bat him 3rd/4th/5th)? I don't see overpaid and overrated as the same thing.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 05:31 (six years ago) link
He was overrated by the Angels GM during the 2011 offseason
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 05:43 (six years ago) link
For a while I think Strasburg was a bit overrated, back when he still had some of that residual legendary buzz from his pre-injury days but was merely very good instead of elite. But now I think he might actually be a bit underrated!
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 05:46 (six years ago) link
Probably a few such pieces out there at the moment:
http://www.billjamesonline.com/should_the_nationals_trade_bryce_harper/
Be forewarned: intangibles are discussed.
― clemenza, Thursday, 19 July 2018 02:06 (six years ago) link
oh *bill*
― mookieproof, Thursday, 19 July 2018 02:21 (six years ago) link
Not BJ, Dave Fleming.
― clemenza, Thursday, 19 July 2018 02:46 (six years ago) link
Homered in the first game today, .293/.419/.573 over the last 30 days. Doesn't suck.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 August 2018 20:23 (six years ago) link
that -3.3 dWAR on bWAR for 2018 is something else. wonder how legit that rating is; i wouldn't be surprised if he's not particularly good out there but that number is shockingly bad.
― omar little, Saturday, 29 September 2018 20:39 (five years ago) link
I know eye test doesn’t mean much but what I saw from him, this season, was just very bad.
― Van Horn Street, Sunday, 30 September 2018 04:01 (five years ago) link
mlbtraderumors predicts 14 years, $420M for harper
(13 years, $390M for Machado, for the same $30M AAV)
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 3 November 2018 17:12 (five years ago) link
Will also be on the cover of the show 19
― F# A# (∞), Saturday, 3 November 2018 17:39 (five years ago) link
insane
― mookieproof, Saturday, 3 November 2018 18:19 (five years ago) link
what was wrong with his defense? Ben Lindbergh:
https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/11/20/18104199/bryce-harper-free-agency-defense
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 19:03 (five years ago) link
some of those misplays are brutal
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 19:35 (five years ago) link
move him back to C! make the thread title relevant again!
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 21 November 2018 22:20 (five years ago) link
getting easier to hate
https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/03/26/bryce-harper-is-pandering-hard-to-philly-fans/
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 11:36 (five years ago) link
If he ever has a bad season they’re going to boo the fuck out of him
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 3 April 2019 12:44 (five years ago) link
they booed Mike Schmidt in good seasons!
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 14:20 (five years ago) link
i'm sure that's true, but i think the fact that he *chose* them will go a long way
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 3 April 2019 14:28 (five years ago) link
Bryce got a tad upset with the strike calls tonight
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 April 2019 05:55 (five years ago) link
you can buy Bryce's pomade
https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/7FD8ED49-CB2F-4406-A326-54374A7DE0F8/
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 5 July 2019 13:24 (five years ago) link
Bryce takes Hunter Strickland deep again. pic.twitter.com/hOFRO31tPi— Jamal Collier (@JamalCollier) September 25, 2019
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 02:05 (four years ago) link
Dan Shulman, on a Toronto call-in this morning, called Harper a really, really talented player who ranks about #15-20 across both leagues. Sounds about right. (Except in April, when he leaps to the front of the class.)
― clemenza, Wednesday, 25 September 2019 22:20 (four years ago) link