― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 21 March 2005 14:41 (nineteen years ago) link
dude they still hold 'em upside down before they give 'em to ya.
it was all about the suicide soda, bros.
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 21 March 2005 22:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 21 March 2005 22:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 02:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 03:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 03:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 04:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 04:32 (nineteen years ago) link
― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 05:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 05:21 (nineteen years ago) link
Fuck, them's fighting words.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 06:14 (nineteen years ago) link
that's even worse. "my handpuppet."
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 17:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 23:56 (nineteen years ago) link
Really, it is great (like duuuuuuuuuuuuh), and I am getting a little bit of the "oh wow" recognition thing, seeing the names of players mentioned here getting love on the major league level (cf. Francis, Grienke, Greene, Adams, Teahen, and, of course, Jeremy "Chair-Toss Inspiring" Bonderman). MORE MONEYBALL DAMMIT!
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 16 May 2005 00:27 (nineteen years ago) link
NewsWhen the Athletics traded Tim Hudson to the Braves this past offseason, general manager Billy Beane insisted that left handed pitching prospect Dan Meyer be included in the deal. After a 1-3 record, 6.62 ERA, and noticeable loss in velocity at Triple-A Sacramento, Meyer was shut down indefinitely late last week, according to Baseball America.
ViewsWhen pitcher Rich Harden went out with a strained oblique injury, chances are some people in prospect circles were calling for Meyer as a possible replacement. While it was unlikely the Athletics would go that route even if health wasn't an issue, it's that much less likely now. The team is setting no timetable for his return and will take their time to discover the reason for Meyer's lack of success this season.
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:47 (nineteen years ago) link
moneyball is indeed amazing. it should be 5000000000 pages long.
i'm reading ball four for the trillionth time right now. good god it's amazing.
― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 May 2005 20:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Monday, 16 May 2005 20:37 (nineteen years ago) link
Be sure to dive right into that vomit-caked Mets' wives opening chapter, Stenc.
It's been so long since I read MB I don't recall Greinke in it.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 May 2005 20:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 16 May 2005 21:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 16 May 2005 22:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 11:21 (nineteen years ago) link
HENCE MY NEW TEAM NICKNAME
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 20 May 2005 16:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 23:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 May 2005 12:08 (nineteen years ago) link
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=129
"I'm having a hard time keeping up with the literature that attempts to refute Moneyball. (Much of the time I can't figure out why they bother to refute a thing that was never said--say, for example, that the Atlanta Braves are not very successful, or that there are not other ways to win baseball games than the way Oakland wins baseball games.)...
"Billy Beane had no clue what the book was about until he saw the galleys--and got upset with me. In fairness to Joe Morgan--though why start now?--a lot of sports books are as-told-to affairs. He probably has never been fully exposed to the old fashioned idea of the author."
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 12:29 (eighteen years ago) link
Book DescriptionStats vs. Scouts. Math vs. Makeup. Computers vs. Commuters. College vs. High-School. The debate is a new one in baseball, and it has recently taken on a life of its own. Ever since Michael Lewis’ best-seller Moneyball arrived on the scene, and spurred by the recent World Series victory by the sabermetric advocate Boston Red Sox, the dispute about the best way to build a professional baseball team has raged out of control - until now. In this fascinating and insightful look into what criteria major and minor league baseball scouts use to determine talent, Scout’s Honor shines a bright light on the job done by ‘old-school’ scouts and their killer instincts. The author uses the success of the Atlanta Braves as the focal point for a mesmerizing investigation into the debate of stats versus scouts, and why, if it’s a successful franchise you’re after, there is no debate about the bravest way to build a winning team. "What makes Scout’s Honor so great is that it brings us into the world of those who determine successful big leaguers by looking into the future, not by looking back at spreadsheets and stats. Now that takes talent. ‘Old-school’ wins, literally. This book is a worthy foil to the Moneyballers." - Lyle Spencer
― John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 14:33 (eighteen years ago) link
WTF, that doesn't make the least bit of sense. I guess they're arguing that "stats" = "numbers compiled in the past" and therefore they have limited predictive value ... which still makes no sense. Never mind, trying to interpret these garbage arguments isn't worth our time.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 14:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 15:03 (eighteen years ago) link
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2002334979_sabermetrics14.html
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 20:09 (eighteen years ago) link
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4216
And the Baseball Prospectus crew's forthcoming analysis of the Red Sox' use of smartball (Goldman said last night it should beout in early September):
http://www.workman.com/catalog/pagemaker.cgi?0761140182
It'll be very interesting to see the awareness level and reception this book gets in the sports media and baseball industry.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 14 July 2005 12:46 (eighteen years ago) link
??????
are they honestly gonna fucking argue that foulke's better than rivera, or are they talking abt usage?
i'd like to get this for insider info, but i don't think i could stand any sox-worshipping. i know goldman's a yankees fan and he'll probably do a pretty good job at being objective and whatnot, but i think i should've written this book.
silver's major beef w/ scout's honor (its anti-moneyball polemicism) is the one and only reason i'm not interested in the book.
― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 14 July 2005 13:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Thursday, 14 July 2005 13:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 14 July 2005 13:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 14 July 2005 13:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 14 July 2005 13:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 July 2005 14:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 14 July 2005 14:30 (eighteen years ago) link
Don't forget the Red Sox to some degree took more performance-analysis-related shit than the A's: the bullpen-by-committee [sic] feeding frenzy in early 2003, the hiring of Bill James, the defense issues around the Nomar trade, etc.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 14 July 2005 14:36 (eighteen years ago) link
i don't think i could stomach it.
also"Jim Baker on why star players shouldn’t hurl themselves into the stands"
fuck that shit. i mean seroiusly, what the fuck. ppl seem to have forgotten just how important that out was.
― John (jdahlem), Friday, 15 July 2005 17:28 (eighteen years ago) link
Shanks then ends the book with a direct assault on Moneyball:
There are two differences that set the A's and the other 'Moneyballers' apart from the rest of baseball. First, their use of statistics is extreme, believing that on-base percentage is the primary indication of big-league success, and that stats override makeup in determining who will make it to the show. Also, speed and defense are trivial. It's all about OBP.
Secondly, due to their financial restrictions, the A's claim that if they're going to spend money on draft picks, they must not miss. They feel the best way to get a value pick is to emphasize college players and to almost ignore talent from the high school level.
(i don't know what's said after this in the piece so i might be redundant here)
shanks is essentially arguing with michael lewis here. this may've been the model put forth in Moneyball (but i'm not certain and it's almost certainly even further oversimplified here), and it might well've been the a's model at the time, but it's got almost nothing to do w/ how the a's have won games over the past 3 years (or drafted this year). obv central thesis = finding undervalued quantities. those quantities of the moment, in beane's view, seem to be defense, and high school arms. beane's ability to adapt and the fluidity of his sytem are things everyone should be able to respect, and shanks not even bothering to take a deeper, or at least current, look at what's going on in oakland is telling.
― John (jdahlem), Friday, 15 July 2005 17:46 (eighteen years ago) link
Yes! in the book (and in your friendly neighborhood MBA-program), this is referred to as "exploiting inefficiencies in the market".
― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 15 July 2005 18:06 (eighteen years ago) link
I seem to recall NYY & BOS both made the playoffs comfortably, ie not so important. And Jeetz was lionized for a week.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 15 July 2005 18:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Friday, 15 July 2005 18:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 15 July 2005 19:03 (eighteen years ago) link
i mean is anyone calling torii hunter a jackass for banging into those garbagebag-lined twindome walls all the time?
― John (jdahlem), Friday, 15 July 2005 19:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 15 July 2005 19:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― dan. (dan.), Friday, 22 July 2005 19:07 (eighteen years ago) link
[Reyes'] OBP is currently ranked 152nd among major-league qualifiers and yet he has been the lead-off man for the Mets in 85 games to date. I think there comes a point when a manager gets so sick of hearing a criticism that he digs in his heels and refuses to budge in spite of overwhelming evidence that he's been making a mistake. At this point, Willie Randolph probably thinks it would be a sign of weakness to give in to his critics and drop Reyes to the eighth spot in the order where he belongs. The only other explanation would be that he thinks batting Reyes leadoff helps the team. That can't possibly be the case, though, can it?
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 22 July 2005 19:36 (eighteen years ago) link