Joseph Daniel Votto

a) we love him
b) any six-time winner of the Tip O'Neill Award deserves a thread
c) he rules

Unadjusted, he's in line with Edgar Martinez:

Votto - .313/.428/.540
Edgar - .312/.418/.515

But Votto plays the field, has more power (5 more HR per season), walks even more (10 extra BB a year), and gets a large adjustment for era. His OPS+ is currently ahead of Mays, Aaron, DiMaggio, Wagner...

He's even underrated for most of the same reasons that Edgar was!

(OBP is generally an underrated stat, hasn't put up gaudy HR and RBI numbers every year, played for a lot of mediocre teams in a smaller market, etc.)

i love him so

i pasted a fangraphs link yesterday showing that he was the 4th player since 1900 to have a season with a BB% of >18 and a K% of <12 (barry bonds did it 5x, brian giles once, todd helton once)

I wish he played for a team that wasn't blacked out for me.

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/6/9/4/71460694/VottoMountie_d4jics3t.gif

(xpost) Not Ted Williams? Unless I'm misunderstanding, looks like he did it a bunch of times.

ok, i must have done the table wrong or something. i was surprised with that result too

can someone play around with the fangraphs splits leaderboard? for some reason it's only giving me results back to 2000

I swear there's a Joey Votto default setting: 1-3 with a walk. I'm tempted to go through his game logs for the past couple of years; it feels like every other game he's 1-3 with a walk, although I know that's not true. (He's one of 5-10 players I check daily.)

one of the best hitters of this era, super underrated despite the mvp season

bbref probably better than fangraphs if you want to go back further than 15 yrs

Belated welcome to the >18/<12 club, Joey.

http://m.reds.mlb.com/news/article/254891116/joey-votto-astounds-with-ability-to-draw-walks

He was on as an in-studio commentator here during the WS--as you'd expect, quite good.

Something I just noticed that surprised me. (I like to look at Votto's career box once a week...except for his injury-shortened 2014, a thing of beauty--and that was disastrous only by his own standards; merely mediocre for anyone else).

Jason Giambi (911.8)
Matt Holliday (899.8)
Hal Trosky (899.5)
Ted Kluszewski (898.3)
Magglio Ordonez (897.7)
Larry Walker (887.7)
Mo Vaughn (885.6)
Lance Berkman (880.0)
Tim Salmon (879.0)
Cecil Cooper (878.3)

His career comps through 33 include no HOF'ers (although I still think Walker will get there eventually). Comp lists for guys who are clearly headed to the HOF almost always include at least two or three other players who are already there--sometimes more. I would have thought Votto's would include people like Bagwell and Thome, maybe a couple of older names like Greenberg or Mize or somebody. Hack Wilson does turn up on the other comp list (Votto's stats vs. career stats of others). Maybe his walk rate is so high, that skews everything.

"only" avg 20-25 HR/year @ 1B has something to do w it? which compounds the cartoonishly high walk thing?

ooh i'd love some video of his commentary

I got a weird feeling Boston is going to make a push to trade for Votto in the off season.

WAR career total wise Votto is past all of those comparable players, it's just that most of the guys on that list tailed off hard at around age 33. It will be interesting to see how Joey Votto does between say 33-38, as that is going to be the difference in between the HOF and the hall of very good.

could see him being bonds 35-40 w/o the power

I've thought about it a bit and I might have said it on a different thread, but I think the player who's style I think was pretty similar to Joey Votto was Carl Yastrzemski. Yaz started out great at a much earlier age and missed less time to injury, so his career counting totals are past what Votto will do, but from what I can recall and looking at the numbers, both had a good eye hit for average, power and drew walks. I'd think Yaz's later career could be something we could see from Votto.

OPS+ for some select players over their first 11 seasons:

161 - Bonds
159 - Mays
159 - McCovey
158 - DiMaggio
*158 - Votto*
157 - Manny
157 - Aaron
157 - Bagwell
154 - Miggy
154 - F. Robinson

— Andrew Simon (@AndrewSimonMLB) November 17, 2017

Joey Votto has been awarded the 2017 Lou Marsh Trophy as Canada’s most outstanding athlete of the year.#reds

— Mark Sheldon (@m_sheldon) December 12, 2017

Cumlative Frequency
Batted Balls by Spray Direction
Votto v MLB (LHH)
Including foul balls
-45 is pure pull, +45 is pure opposite#Statcast
Interesting note: this is a pure "shift"; no clumping of balls being pulled or hit the other way. Just everything shifted 6 degrees. pic.twitter.com/UjJ4N8Z3vC

— Tangotiger (@tangotiger) January 5, 2018

two cumlatives, one tweet

i have to admit, i'm a little confused by the chart. shouldn't a cumlative percentage chart add up to 100%? maybe batted balls more than 45 degrees in either direction aren't counted?

https://deadspin.com/joey-votto-performs-a-public-service-robs-eagles-fan-o-1825143631

make that seven

Congratulations to Joey Votto on winning his 7th James Tip O’Neill award as Canada’s best player. @Reds @baseballcanada pic.twitter.com/cY3K2tizlG

— CDN Baseball HOF (@CDNBaseballHOF) April 13, 2018

Votto's played nine full-time seasons, and they've all been good-to-(eight of them)-great. I'm surprised he didn't win all nine. They must have given one to Morneau, the other I don't know.

Ya. I’m trying to guess who else... Russ Martin maybe?

List of winners:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tip_O%27Neill_Award

Morneau got it in 2008, Votto's first full year. They were pretty close, but Morneau was probably better.

Jason Bay got it in 2009--Votto was better

Votto split the award in 2011 with John Axford--Votto was better.

Morneau won again in 2014, when Votto missed half the season.

Wtf @ Axford?!

Probably because of those amazing 46 saves he earned by throwing a few fastballs every couple days.

votto loves his slow starts. was awful in spring training and has been sub-replacement so far this year

wish i were a mod so i could ban you from this thread

<3

I gotta bad feeling if the Reds continue on their implosion path the club ownership might throw in the towel and trade Votto for as much as they can get.

To me, it seems a no brainer for a club with a situation like the Red Sox might try to deal to get Votto. He would be their ideal kind of hitter. Marketing wise, I think Votto in a big market (if he wanted to do it) could be huge especially with the hitting legacy in Boston.

Seems like the kinda deal the Blue Jays might also do.

I think it possible.

Would love to have him in Toronto, of course, but I doubt the timing's right. Smoak continues to play well on the cheap--and the guys in charge are cheap--and Donaldson's health issues relegate him to DH more and more. And, while Guerrero's untouchable, I wouldn't want the Reds to pry Bichette away in a deal.

I think his contract makes him really hard to move. I love Votto but no one is going to give up a Vlad or Bichette level talent to pay Joey that much money over his decline years.

I wouldn’t even want to part with a Teoscar.

i don't think you'd have to give up much in the way of prospects to get votto -- just a willingness to pay his enormous salary

3-3 with a homer, a double, and 2 walks today. wRC+ back to 130 all of the sudden

Another classic from Joey Votto. I’ll never understand how people don’t like this man.

“Shout out to Canada.” pic.twitter.com/TNQ2j4zv7L

— Aaron Woods (@AaronWoods1410) April 28, 2018

"Below zero Celsius shout out to Canada."

That's even better.

It is good to see how much confidence Votto has developed on TV over the years. I think he has a career in broadcasting if he wants it when done.

How many of the great hitters, Votto type players, ended up being good hitting coaches? Managers?

Joe Torre was a pretty darn good hitter. Won an MVP and a batting title.

Yeah, lots...
Molitor, Mattingly, Baker, who is that guy who owns the Marlins again?

Votto type players

Not sure if any of those guys are Votto-type players, though--Mattingly in his prime would be the closest. Ted Williams and Frank Robinson weren't particularly successful as managers; Ruth waited around for a call that never came.

Yeah i'm thinking hitting first mad scientists (135 wrc+ career), Ted Williams and Frank Robinson fit that description. One that seems to have been rather successful is Reggie Jackson. Molitor isn't too far, that being said. Looking if they are able to share their insights in a structured way.

For some reason I was under the impression Reggie Jackson had been a coach (bench or hitting) with the Yankees, but he was not.

Frank Howard did have a good coaching career.

McGwire?

i know everyone can do this, everyone on earth, with various people that are slightly younger than them but have accomplished so much more, and much more quickly. so let's let out a big ooooof, just let it all air out in the room

I recently had a mini breakdown upon realizing that joey gallo was in sixth grade while I was a high school senior

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXt7OuRUIAA13XV?format=jpg&name=small

in a few minutes he will set a new record for games played by a canadian (passing larry walker)

Out for the year:

https://www.mlb.com/news/michael-harris-ii-discusses-new-8-year-contract

He's signed through next year, so I guess he'll come back, but I don't know. I'm sure he doesn't want to go out like this. He turns 39 in a few weeks.

i think you meant this one: https://www.mlb.com/news/joey-votto-2022-season-ending-surgery

and yeah, he strikes me as someone who would want another chance to end on a high note

I didn’t know I was hurt. Thought I just stunk.

— Joey Votto (@JoeyVotto) August 20, 2022

This is so awesome.

Joey Votto (out for the season) is walking around the stands at the @Reds game. He’s hanging with fans, taking selfies, signing autographs, and sitting with kids to watch with them. pic.twitter.com/vhSjg40wyB

— Ben Verlander (@BenVerlander) September 21, 2022

JOEY VOTTO TIGHT PANTS CLUB pic.twitter.com/PEQ38fukgI

— kat is training for spring (@bgardnerfanclub) February 27, 2023

I read this today, absolutely incredible article, the bit where he’s saying a guy is a flat earther was the best

Also this is old but necessary to link

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cf8BFg4FPPL/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Votto/Greinke 2023

this was really one of the best baseball articles i've read in some time. the flat earther section in full

Stephen Piscotty, outfielder: It was a longer at-bat. He didn’t say anything initially and then midway through the at-bat he just kind of looked at me and goes, “You went to Stanford, right? You’re an engineer?” I was like, “I mean, yeah, I’m surprised you would know that.” He was like, “OK, so if you’re an engineer, have you ever applied your engineering skills to hitting and how you think about it?” I was like, “Wow, that’s an interesting question.”

Votto (handwritten): I enjoy learning from my peers.

Votto: Yeah, I also asked him: “Why the hell do you think the earth is flat? You’re an engineer and you went to Stanford. How the hell can you think the earth is flat?”
(Editor’s note: Reached by text, a confused Piscotty wrote, “I am definitely not a flat earther.”
Votto: that’s what he tells you.)

loved this part too:

Votto: My routine every day is to compete, then go home, play chess and listen to old Norm Macdonald and old David Letterman, have a sleeve of saltines and then go to sleep. I’m dead-ass serious. That’s my life routine from basically spring training on.

damn he is me

Joey Votto 👀

Any of the 64 teams in #MarchMadness need a point guard?

🎥 @Reds pic.twitter.com/q1FbkgbjgB

— The Athletic MLB (@TheAthleticMLB) March 16, 2023

better handles than kendrick perkins

HEEEE’S BAAAAAAACK!! VOTTO. STILL. BANGS. pic.twitter.com/KgyyaC9pfY

— Jared Carrabis (@Jared_Carrabis) June 20, 2023

.@JoeyVotto is a LEGEND 😂

Catch the full interview with the @Reds slugger on Thursday’s episode of #HighHeat with @MadDogUnleashed & @alannarizzo at 11am ET. pic.twitter.com/aIRuzSzxQc

— MLB Network (@MLBNetwork) July 27, 2023

happy 40th!

One day earlier this year, the Reds prospect Matt McLain stood in the clubhouse of the Class AAA Louisville Bats and began to bad mouth the game of chess. Behind him, undetected, was Votto, who was with the club on a rehab assignment. Votto might have objected and put the minor leaguer in his place, but instead he laughed and enlisted McLain in a gag.
He set up a secret camera to record a chess match between himself and infielder Alex McGarry. In the resulting video, the contest is in full swing when McLain walks by and defiantly slaps all the pieces onto the floor. McLain said McGarry was not in on the act and that his initial anger was real. But most people got the joke, which Votto ensured would be on himself.

<3

The lack of hubbub going down the stretch kind of leans me to think the Reds and Joey might have already discussed him coming back for next year on his option season.

Reds got to pay him 7 million either way, so I don't think it is out of the possibility they might throw in few more bones for JV to play a final season.

At this point, I think Votto would be best used now as a spot starter and super 'Rusty Staub' style pinch hitter - especially that the Reds got two young big bats in Strand and Steer whose best position on the field is first base. Steer has some options to move around, but Strand is pretty much a 1b/DH.

I kinda think the options are good for mojo/clubhouse purposes as there is a really strong case for the Reds to move Jonathan India to get a starting pitcher. Same thing, there is so much talent to pay 2nd/SS for the Reds, India while the closest thing to a team captain they got and popular, is the one closest to free agency and a big raise.

Oh yeah, I found in my desk a Reds score card from Votto's rookie year, the game I saw where he hit 3 HRs against the Cubs. Pretty cool that I have hung on to this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfTKpXWMQQw

I also saw Todd Frazier's infamous one armed home run against Jamie Moyer and Eric Davis' first catch of two in a weekend robbing Jack Clark of a home run in person. Those are pretty much the 3 big plays/games I saw in person.

https://theathletic.com/5030604/2023/11/04/reds-decline-joey-votto-option/

I know how chimerical this sounds, but if I were the Jays, I'd absolutely take a chance and bring him in for one year. We've been talking a lot about intangibles, and god knows, he'd bring some the things this team is desperately in need of--most of all a presence that they just don't have (and that Semien gave them). They might even catch lighting in a bottle and get something resembling Pujols' final season. Probably not, but I think he'd be good for 10 HR, walks, and a .250/.350/.450 slash line if they rested him and picked their spots.

"lightning"

I can’t explain it - but he def feels like the type of hitter to kick it into a higher gear if he knows for sure the season is his last.

The Jays are going to need a new DH. It could be a nice fit.

pic.twitter.com/b6by6rXPKP

— Joey Votto (@JoeyVotto) November 5, 2023

What a fun mission. 😂

Joey Votto was on a scavenger hunt for mascots during #NHLAllStar. pic.twitter.com/Oq8XM8UtbC

— NHL (@NHL) February 3, 2024

Is this the end?

2 seasons below replacement off/def not helped by Mendoza line BA. Veteran presence not worth the team option apparently.

Feels bad man.

I hate seeing his posts about this

Idk how it worked in the past but the roster spots are precious and he’s obviously well past the options stage of his career where you could stash him in triple A and at least play him there. Supposedly he’s had offers but who knows. I don’t think the Reds even did a farewell for him so it’s not like some Brandon Crawford thing where there was the last home series dedicated to him.

He clearly still wants to play. I don’t actually know anything about him off the field but I saw that he deleted all the photos off his Instagram except three from this year, which seems…bad.

It kind of feels that the Reds just cut him loose and that was it? Yeah it’s a hard sport but if he’s a Hall of Famer, he’s going in in a Reds cap - maybe they could have tried a little harder to offer a mentoring gig? But then again, assuming he still wants to play, that may have happened & he turned it down.

Feel like the Red Sox would have taken a flier on him if he was right handed - he still managed 14 home runs last season and he would be the perfect mentor for Casas. Blue Jays have Vladdy. I can’t think of any other teams besides those three that would make sense for him.

Jays are missing an opportunity, in my opinion. Even with Turner taking care of part of what they would have gotten from him--and I know roster spots are finite--I'd still like to have him.

Whose roster spot does he take though? 13/26 are pitchers, 9 are starters, 4 are bench guys.

it is unfortunate but the only place that made sense was toronto, and as a team with playoff ambitions, they're much better off with turner (who apparently is a much-beloved veteran presence who helps younger players a great deal)

joey won't sell tickets anywhere else and he's not worth the roster spot anymore ;_;

I totally understand the rational, hard-headed argument against him, and I usually lean in that direction myself. This team is just so desparately in need of all that character stuff (and I think a starting pitcher, like Gausman, can only provide so much of that). Hopefully Turner covers enough of that.

And the Jays do need a lhh

With 13-man pitching staffs, teams don't have room for veteran pinch-hitter/occasional DH's anymore. With four bench guys, there's almost no flexibility in roster construction -- you need a catcher, two infielders, and at least one outfielder. If he could reproduce Belt's slash stats from last year then it could still be worth it, but I don't think he's got it in him anymore.

Belt should have a job, never mind Votto!

Joey Votto has agreed to a non-roster invite with the Blue Jays. He is back.

— Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) March 8, 2024

Great! He either earns a spot or he doesn't--but at least they're giving it a shot.

looks like it either him or Vogelbach. hopefully this doesn't block Spencer Horwitz, tho i think he'll have a good shot at LF.

Reds got a jam of young guys that can play first or DH.

Votto might just join those guys who have that last hurrah on another team like say Billy Williams with the As or Ron Sanyo with the White Sox. Willie Mays going back to NY and Hank to Milwaukee a bit different.

Ron Sanyo and J.D. Marantz should have been teammates.

(I empathize--I've been bemoaning my own typos.)

https://www.mlb.com/news/joey-votto-homers-in-first-spring-training-at-bat-with-blue-jays

Hell yeah

“I accidentally stepped on a bat in the dugout, rolled my ankle and it hurt like the dickens,”

Most blue jays thing ever

As the only person he follows on twitter, I feel like he needs to see this. https://t.co/BuUlgtuQJl pic.twitter.com/0d9Wxlpd4r

— Devin Mesoraco (@DMesoraco) March 19, 2024

I should in theory post this to the spring training content thread, but Joey Votto…

Spoilers for Love is Blind here

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4yqTY9RYZv/