2023 World Series: Arizona Diamondbacks vs Texas Rangers

Ragtag bag of rookies, journeymen, and Paul Sewald vs Bochy’s boys. Personally I have no idea who’ll win, I just want to see the following:

- Aroldis Chapman to get lit up
- Pfaadt qs
- Christian Walker to finally do anything
- Jonah Heim switch hitting home runs from both sides of the plate
- Carroll to get at least three bags
- Monty qs
- Tommy Pham to do absolutely nothing

Unknowns:

- will Marcus Semien ever wake up?
- can Scherzer actually deliver a qs at this stage?
- can Zac Gallen actually rise to the occasion?

Not a poll?

No.

Voting rangers in 7

No clue anymore. I was sure an Astro-Phillies WS was going to restore some semblance of logic to all of this, but no. Beyond the Jays, I root for players not teams, but I will root for Texas here because of 2011. And Semien, and Scherzer, who'll I'll root for unequivocally this time (mixed feelings in G7 of the ALCS). What a strange, nomadic finish to his career.

i've seen these scrappy underdog stories before, they usually run into a buzzsaw at some point and the rangers definitely seem like that buzzsaw. wouldn't be surprised by a rangers sweep

Which is about the boldest prediction I'm ready to make: one of these teams is about to come down to earth a bit.

Series opens in Texas. Can't remember if they did this in 2010 or 2011, but please invite David Clyde to throw out the first pitch.

Can Degrom be ready for game 7?

I’m sure they can find a cheerleader uniform to fit him

The Rangers, who will be making their third World Series appearance, are -175 on BetMGM. The Diamondbacks, who won their only other World Series appearance in 2001, have +145 odds to win it all.

No surprise, and pretty much guaranteeing the Diamondbacks will win.

i've seen these scrappy underdog stories before, they usually run into a buzzsaw at some point and the rangers definitely seem like that buzzsaw. wouldn't be surprised by a rangers sweep

― 龜, Wednesday, October 25, 2023 7:28 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah this kind of feels like last year's NBA Finals, where the Miami Heat shocked everyone by fairly decisively taking out the top 2 seeds only to run into a Nuggets team which was just way better than them in every way. and well-rested to boot. but this is baseball. of course Arizona can win 4 more.

this is a battle between perhaps my two least favorite uniforms. should be illegal for the dbacks to win until they get their shit together and go back to purple.

Boo, no poll:

Rangers in 5

This is going to set records for least watched World Series ever. I'm not even sure if I'm going to watch, maybe just background stuff.

Lowest rated was 2020, the COVID year, even though L.A. was in it--not sure how to balance those two opposing factors. Two highest rated this century were the great 2001 series--Arizona!--and the first Red Sox win; they both had about triple the audience of 2020. Everything else, somewhere in between...I think you're probably right. I find stuff like that interesting, some people don't even want to talk about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series_television_ratings

This is going to set records for least watched World Series ever. I'm not even sure if I'm going to watch, maybe just background stuff.

i like the odds of Texas's bats thumping the Diamondbacks pitching better than I do the reverse. Rangers in 6 (but cheering for the D-Backs).

go back to purple.

No! The purple uniforms were worse.

My card is the 7 of Diamondsbacks (Dbacks in 7)

Of course they're still doing these, because what else can they do?

https://www.mlb.com/news/d-backs-rangers-2023-world-series-position-by-position

This is going to set records for least watched World Series ever. I'm not even sure if I'm going to watch, maybe just background stuff.

how did the NLCS and ALCS do? the best teams didn't really make those either.

Such a hassle when the narrative teams can’t get it done

"Narrative" is a pretty broad, amorphous term. The Rangers and Diamondbacks are about as narrative as it gets at the moment.

I said this last year too though I can’t recall when but I just do not remotely care that the teams who are “supposed” to be there aren’t (which is what I mean by narrative). In no sport I’ve ever followed has an underdog team doing well been bad for the sport. As a Phillies fan in a video I saw put it, “$700m to go 0-12.” I mean…yeah.

I think I’m posting just having been annoyed by commentary on this as well, so for example I don’t care if Bryce Harper doesn’t get “his” ring, I’m not related to him, his achievements mean absolutely nothing to me. But that’s a real argument I’ve seen on baseball twitter and it’s completely alien to me. Like I’ve followed Corbin Carroll (with his surname directly from the same part of Ireland I’m from, king!) all season long and it reminds me very much of reading back about Buster Posey’s stud rookie year. A brilliant young player like him or Josh Jung contributing to their teams getting to and even maybe winning the World Series is the kind of thing that I love about the game. The moment is big, and so far they’ve been equal to it.

I mean yeah it would be cool for Harper to win a ring after seeing the Nats get one without him, on the other hand that's just not really how the sport works. and I feel like the fans understand that. in the NBA and NFL when you bring up superstar players the titles they've won is usually the thing that comes to mind first. how you rank dudes depends a lot on whether or not they were able to get it done in the playoffs. in baseball it feels more like a bonus thing. even if you're the best player in the world you still can't singlehandedly get your team to the playoffs the way you could in other sports.

Yeah exactly. It’s a team sport and even having a generational talent (or two!) isn’t enough.

Just making the point that there all kinds of narratives. You're attached to the scrappy-underdog and magical-rookie-season narratives. I love those, too, sometimes--recently, I was caught up in the 2019 Nationals and in Carlos Correa's arrival. But not always. I do, more often than not, cheer for the grizzled-veteran-makes-one-last-heroic-stand narrative, which is why I always root for Verlander and Kershaw and Scherzer. Blame seeing The Winning Team at a young age. And blame my age now.

Sometimes the narratives change overnight seemingly. Last year the Phillies were the scrappy underdogs. Most people on ILX still seemed to love them at the beginning of the NLCS this year.

I don't hate dynasties, which is, again, traceable to my first decade as a fan. The '70s were all about dynasties and mini-dynasties: the Orioles, Yankees, and Red Sox in the A.L. East, the A's and Royals in the West; the Pirates and Phillies in the N.L. East, the Reds and Dodgers in the West. These were memorable teams--obviously changing over time, but usually with a core that didn't. Sometimes I like chaos--I loved the ending to that one crazy season round about 2008 (the one where the whole playoff picture changed three times in a matter of minutes)--but not as a permanent state.

Took a few minutes to clarify: it's the 2011 season I'm talking about. Chaos I loved. (Sure enough, it was carried all the way to the WS and David Freese.)

https://www.mlb.com/news/remembering-dramatic-final-day-of-2011-season

MLB is unusual among major US sports in that there is no salary cap (though I understand there is more of a luxury tax than there used to be). I suppose NASCAR and world soccer are sports like this as well.

So when I see an MLB team beat another team with twice the payroll I find that an exciting story, bigger than just baseball.

I've read that starting in 2023 the Diamondbacks had a payroll of $116,471,292. The Philadelphia Phillies had a payroll of $243,009,439.

I also like to see a short turnaround story. I followed the Angels in their miserable season of 2001 because I had a long commute from Orange County back in those days. And then I loved seeing the Angels win the 2002 World Series with many of the same players (sorry gyac).

I don't know if there's a more admirable franchise on the payroll/results spectrum than the Rays.

I mean, they're so great they end up right in the middle of two conflicting narratives: the scrappy underdog who's annoying because they win every single year.

i believe the 1987 twins are the only precedent for a team with a negative run differential in the regular season winning the world series. would be kinda cool to see it happen again, though it really exposes just how swingy baseball is

xp that’s a bit of an exaggeration I think, they’ve won two pennants in their entire history.

I also disagree a bit with felicity about the low payroll aspect: the teams who get results with lower payrolls are usually able to do so cos they draft high and don’t have to pay those players yet, or they’re unusually good at picking up low risk high upside guys who have some flaw another team couldn’t fix.

The Mariners are tremendously frustrating because almost every fan wants them to spend in free agency to bring in some decent bats- and to bring in a bat to a pitcher-friendly stadium you’ve got to overpay, right? But the owners are notoriously stingy and would probably prefer to trade away the great young players once they want to be paid so the window isn’t going to be as long as it should be. The A’s as well, all that revenue sharing money going into the owner’s pocket rather than on players, shouldn’t be allowed. But if that model had succeeded, all the billionaires who own teams would want to copy it to cut out the biggest expense on their payroll - players.

Well...you put a lot of emphasis on the postseason as a determinative measure of success. Since their turnaround in 2008, I think most fans would view the Rays as having had a very successful, sustained run (with a four-year dip midway). Being in the same division, I'm generally in awe.

Me and every single players going. Everyone wants a ring.

Fans and players are going to measure "success" the same? Kind of moving the goal posts there...If you're arguing that the Rays aren't really all that successful because they've "only" been to two World Series, I just don't see that as a credible argument.

Baseball players are competitive. Of course they want to win the World Series? It’s the biggest accomplishment you can achieve in baseball. Individual awards are nice but they are just that, individual.

No argument re players. I'm looking at this as a fan, a Jays fan in particular, and the Rays are a great success story post-2008 to me.

Unrelated side note: I'm in a 5/6 today, kind of a rough one (or at least till I, uh, ejected two guys--much quieter since). There's one guy named Ripken, a baseball fan, who says that yes, he's named after the other Ripken. (Not the coach of the "fuckface" guy, the one who played a lot.)

("or," not "of")

xp this won’t mean much to you I suspect but I once was served in a shop in north London by a young man with the name tag Maldini. “Like the player?!” I said, somewhat obviously. “Yeah,” said the kid, who was clearly just that bit too young to remember his prime.

I was able to guess the sport!

Before leaving today, I told Ripken he had to be in school for the next 2,632 consecutive days--no sickness, no trips, nothing. I think he was one of the 5s...that should take him into his first graduate degree, at least.

i believe the 1987 twins are the only precedent for a team with a negative run differential in the regular season winning the world series. would be kinda cool to see it happen again, though it really exposes just how swingy baseball is

― ciderpress, Thursday, October 26, 2023

They might be the only other team to even reach the Series with a negative RD. Checked the '73 Mets, and they steamrolled the opposition with 608 runs scored and 588 given up.

This thread nearly broke me out of my stupor but we all know Bryce already has a ring from last year and there’s nothing anyone can say to convince me otherwise

It must be nice for Max Scherzer or Tommy Pham to be offloaded at the trade deadline and suddenly find themself in the position of possibly being part of a World Series team. One of them will get some jewelry.

And then I loved seeing the Angels win the 2002 World Series with many of the same players (sorry gyac).

― felicity, Thursday, October 26, 2023 10:06 AM (eight hours ago)

https://i.imgur.com/2EBoxmn.jpg

he's been out of the game for six years but christ do i still hate john lackey

I think Texas is a very credible WS winner. Only won 92, outscored their opponents enough to win 96, awesome offense, lost their best starter for the season, lost Scherzer and Garcia for most of the series. They remind me of a few other overdue teams from history, like the Senators in 2019. They're not the best team, no, but I'm a lot happier that they won than the team with 84 wins (who were lucky to win that many). Arizona did great to get there, and I won't be inconsistent in my belief that the postseason isn't the sole measure of anything, but if Texas and Arizona played 162 games, I think Texas would win close to 90 of them.

Semien: 9-24, .292/.292/.625, 2 HR, 8 RBI.

ya, my thoughts too. better than the Astros.
xpost

I'd say the series overall was middling. Two great games, two blowouts, and one that was nothing special in the middle.

Tom Verduci: what made you want to be a Texas ranger?
Nathan Eovaldi: I mean……. Money?

I laughed watching this too, "I joined for 20 million reasons, and 20 million reasons only, Tom."

boo's for the commish

love to see NHL shining through to MLB

'thanks for this hunk of metal'

How nice for Jacob deGrom.

Good job BB

Can’t help but laugh at max getting a ring here lol.

And DeGrom!

$500k-ish bonus, fun way for Evan Carter to double his rookie salary.

"like the Senators in 2019"--not that my mind's living back in 1970.

We get it clemenza, you’re old

;)

Bottom line is I'm happy for Bochy. It's almost not fair to just show up and win it all in the first year out of retirement.

Tip my cap

Still forever Giant

Feels like he's beyond reproach at this point, but I thought he led something of a charmed life during this series at least--thought he got away with overmanaging yesterday. But I disagreed even more with some of Lovullo's preemptive bunting.

Can’t help but laugh at max getting a ring here lol. Mid season trades really just a lottery for who is going to luck into getting a ring

― #1 García Fan (H.P), Wednesday, November 1, 2023 11:12 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

tbf he did waive his NTC for the express purpose of playing on a competitive team

As mentioned nothing against it! Just funny that this hof’er rode on the coattails of this scrappy team to another ring. Good for him!

No Zona ring for Bumgarner

Lol

Ridiculous, sure (xpost)

Scrappy maybe the descriptor, but you get the sentiment

Would Arizona have been the first team to win the WS with an negative run differential during the regular season?

That came up earlier. The '87 Twins won: 786 runs, 806 runs allowed.

They're not the best team, no, but I'm a lot happier that they won than the team with 84 wins (who were lucky to win that many)

How many regular season games of theirs did you watch, just out of curiosity? Because the win total never reflected their season - they had a bad stretch that tanked their numbers but they were good on either side of that.

“Jeez, I was sittin’ in a recliner a year ago. What happened?!” 😂 @Rangers pic.twitter.com/Y17jVGIoT6

— Flippin' Bats Podcast (@FlippinBatsPod) November 2, 2023

Have to feel for ZG though, pitching a gem and his teammates not getting it done, 11 left on base and 0 for 9 in risp is horrific

so glad for Semien. and it wasn’t just today. He got clutch hit after clutch hit yesterday too.

Was invisible for most of the postseason though, Heim was more important to their chances IMO

it’s a redemption arc!

Semien has been one of the very best hitters in baseball so it’s nice to see him get his due

bWAR, 2019-2023

Shohei Ohtani      30.6
Mookie Betts       29.7
Marcus Semien      29.0
Aaron Judge        27.9
Juan Soto          25.7

Wow I would not have picked him to be even top 5 on that list. Good for him

How many regular season games of theirs did you watch, just out of curiosity? Because the win total never reflected their season - they had a bad stretch that tanked their numbers but they were good on either side of that.
― mojo dojo casas house (gyac)

I think those games count too...Anyway, you might want to direct these kinds of questions here:

but honestly i don't really care about this at all. good team, nowhere near the best team. also fuck texas
― mookieproof

I said Texas is a very credible WS winner. But if you think Texas is "nowhere near the best team," by extension, I'm thinking you have next to no regard for the team that was just convincingly beat by them in five games.

I’m not sure why I should answer for a post I didn’t make

Ya’ll are talking past each other. The bad games count, how good they are depends on what sample size you use to categorise good. Clem thinks April to November, others take a different approach. Been mulled over, new topics please!

(xpost) I don't get that...Anyway, I'm just saying that you're focussing your ire or disappointment or whatever on me for saying I didn't want a team with 84 wins to win the WS instead of someone who, I'm guessing from the comment I highlighted, thinks even less of them than that. And asking me how many games I saw them play seems really weird. I watch the Jays, don't have an mlb.com subscription--how would I watch the D-backs? I didn't see Ronald Acuna or Mookie Betts play much this year either, but I'm using their records to deduce that they played really well. And I've seen a lot of Arizona the past two or three weeks.

(I will clarify that I think your approach lacks a bit of nuance Clem, but I’ll defer that thought to your many more years of baseball wisdom and my hopeless optimism. The disagreement probably is reducible down to us using different definitions of “good baseball team”)

xp not really, but that that 84 win total isn’t reflective of their quality as a team. That’s why I asked did you watch them in the regular season. I won’t argue that they played like shit in the WS and deserved to lose.

I also don’t really understand why mookieproof’s opinion is being quoted at me.

I'm trying to point out--doesn't matter, forget it. On to awards and the HOF.

By your own logic, clem, an 84 win team who swept the Dodgers with ease are even worse their record - being 2 games over .500 - suggests? Is that really what the argument is? I just can’t understand that. If I’ve misunderstood I’m all ears.

He never said that?

Shohei Ohtani 30.6
Mookie Betts 29.7
Marcus Semien 29.0
Aaron Judge 27.9
Juan Soto 25.7

That is pretty amazing--would have guessed Freeman (24.4) for sure, and maybe one of Goldschmidt or Arenado or Machado.

Degrom being out all season and then watching his team win the world season without him has got to be so cruel for a guy as talented as he is, and is running out of time to establish his HOF candidacy. Him in the rotation dominating this post season probably improves his standing. But he also needs to stay healthy and be awesome for at least 5 more years.

His one short cut might--might--be winning a third Cy Young, if you believe in the rule-of-three as an automatic (non-PED) HOF pass. But yeah, being a core part of the this year's team would have helped him a lot there.

Yeah another cy, some post season heroics, and something flashy like a no hitter or a strikeout record of some sort is probably what it would take. But staying healthy might be even tougher for him.

didn't realize he was already 35! time def might be running out – but he's not far off from where he needs to be if you compare him to Koufax (tho it might be a little harder to make the hall now than it was back then). i think another Cy would guarantee him a spot - but maybe two more seasons of just above average pitching with 20+ starts could also be enough. tho Michael is right - staying healthy IS going to be the hard part for him. 4 seasons now he he hasn't made it past 15 starts (one because of the short season)

He's got a pretty impressive career bWAR considering all the time he's missed, I wonder if rather than getting the counting stats up if he can continue to add to that if it could put him over the top. It does feel like perhaps increasingly there is a sympathetic shift towards briefly dominant guys being considered, and not just the long-term dominant guys, or the "pretty good guys who never got injured and played 22 seasons" types.

Seager obviously helped his HOF case a lot. I'd say he's about where Bumgarner was before he fell apart: solid regular-season resume, building a storied postseason career. Semien--who's just as obviously a long shot--helped his case a little. I wouldn't count him out yet (see above chart).

if Semien has 3-4 seasons in the same ballpark as his last 3-4 (not counting the pandemic season), he'll get into the HOF. he's gone beyond the peak territory of guys like Ian Kinsler, now he just needs to extend that peak a bit longer. Seager is a few years younger and if he can avoid that injury bug, he'll be in good shape.

Turns out I was right:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/38804549/world-series-was-least-watched-fall-classic-tv-history

The Texas Rangers 5-0 victory over the Arizona Diamondbacks for their first championship on Wednesday night drew the largest audience of this World Series. However, it was not enough to prevent the five-game series from being the least-watched Fall Classic in recorded TV history.

Nielsen and Fox said Thursday the World Series averaged 9.11 million viewers, less than the 9.79 million average from the 2020 series, when the Los Angeles Dodgers beat the Tampa Bay Rays in six games.

It was a 23% decline from last year's series, when the Houston Astros beat the Philadelphia Phillies in six games and averaged 11.78 million.

Any idea of how many people watch online? I'm not sure if that's tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions.