Biggio passes Mays in All-Time Doubles

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Apparently Craig Biggio passed Willie Mays on the All-Time Doubles list a couple of nights ago. (Baseball Reference is showing Biggio with 517 and Mays with 523, but I don't think it's been updated since the start of the season.)

I wonder why we didn't have another Torch Ceremony for that.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/2B_career.shtml

― boldbury, Friday, 16 April 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

If you had instead titled this thread "Biggio passes Mays for 31st place in All-Time Doubles" then maybe your wondering would be over!

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 16 April 2004 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

That's worth a letter opener, tho, surely.

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 16 April 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

31st place! That's almost 30th!

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Friday, 16 April 2004 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

If you had instead titled this thread "Biggio passes Mays for 31st place in All-Time Doubles" then maybe your wondering would be over!

Then my question is, at what point down the list does Torch-passing become inappropriate? I guess for 3rd place its OK. But what about 4th? 5th? 50th?

― boldbury, Friday, 16 April 2004 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

passing mays for 31st in doubles is no bigger a deal than passing mays on the highway.

― dyson (dyson), Friday, 16 April 2004 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

(xpost)

I have a hunch the literal torch passing thing only happened because Mays and Bonds are so close, not because he moved into 3rd place. I would guess the torch would've been passed if Mays was 30th on the list, just maybe not in such a public manner.

I don't want to speculate on the nature of the relationship between Mays and Biggio, though, maybe there should be a formal handoff.

― mattbot (mattbot), Friday, 16 April 2004 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

And if a full on Olympic torch gets passed for the HR record, what would get passed for the 2B record? Half a torch? A Zippo? A piece of flint and steel?

― mattbot (mattbot), Friday, 16 April 2004 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I have a hunch the literal torch passing thing only happened because Mays and Bonds are so close, not because he moved into 3rd place.

I'll buy that. Let's say it was Rafael Palmiero who passed Mays. I don't think we would have seen the same kind of thing. And if the catalyst for the ceremony was the private relationship between the two guys, then why make it a public ceremony?

I'm just anti-mid-game-ceremonies.

― boldbury, Friday, 16 April 2004 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

in fact, raffy passed mays last year. he had 543 at the beginning of this year and hit 21 last year.

where's my badge?

― j.q. higgins, Friday, 16 April 2004 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Huh?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/HR_career.shtml

― boldbury (boldbury), Friday, 16 April 2004 18:24 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/2B_career.shtml

note that barry bonds also passed mays, without a torch as i recall.

― John (jdahlem), Friday, 16 April 2004 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i was talkin' two base hits brently!

― j.q. higgins, Friday, 16 April 2004 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm just anti-mid-game-ceremonies.

Like the one Nolan Ryan had in Anaheim back in '92?

Then my question is, at what point down the list does Torch-passing become inappropriate? I guess for 3rd place its OK. But what about 4th? 5th? 50th?

This is a pretty ridiculous question. The 2B is nothing compared to the HR (um hello?!?!? who emailed me yesterday gloating about Hee Seop out-performing Derrek Lee when Lee was hitting his share of doubles yesterday!!!) The only top 3 record in jeopardy while Biggio is still in the game is leadoff strikeouts.

FYI: The olympic torch was held by Mays for the cross-country 2002 torch carrying ceremony in which Mays and Bonds (together mind you) completed one leg of the ceremonial journey.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 16 April 2004 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Like the one Nolan Ryan had in Anaheim back in '92?

What was that for?

― boldbury (boldbury), Friday, 16 April 2004 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Most HBPs.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 16 April 2004 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Just kidding, actually it was before the game IIRC.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 16 April 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

(um hello?!?!? who emailed me yesterday gloating about Hee Seop out-performing Derrek Lee when Lee was hitting his share of doubles yesterday!!!)

That wasn't so much gloating as it was just pokin' at ya a little. I'm totally on board with your Derrick Lee predictions.

But can't you concede that the whole torch passing thing was a little bit silly?

― boldbury (boldbury), Friday, 16 April 2004 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

The only top 3 record in jeopardy while Biggio is still in the game is leadoff strikeouts.

He is the all-time NL leader for leadoff home runs. I'm not sure what his standing is overall, but I know he won't catch Rickey Henderson.

― boldbury (boldbury), Friday, 16 April 2004 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I hope for gygax's sake that his Derrek Lee (pronounced: Leee) predictions involved grounding into double plays with the bases loaded.

― mattbot (mattbot), Friday, 16 April 2004 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think it's silly at all.

It is essentially a symbolic crossroads of "classic" vs. "modern" baseball: two icons who are student and teacher, played famously for the same club, godfather and son, friends. I think it's a historical moment that baseball fans should be grateful to bear witness to. Both men enjoyed (or are enjoying) lengthy careers that some people might debate are among the greatest ever.

wrt Derrek Lee critics: Wait until June. Check out his career splits as the weather warms up.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 16 April 2004 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh no! Dusty Baker proven right! OH NO!

― Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Friday, 16 April 2004 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

As for the torch passing, I at first thought it was an unnecessary and fulsome attention-grabbing event, but having seen some still photos and read descriptions of it, it was loads less tacky than I feared it would be, and perhaps even touching. (E.g. Approaching Mays at home plate, Bonds extended his hand to shake Willie's, but Willie pulled Bonds in for a nice hug.)

― Leee O'Gaddy (Leee), Friday, 16 April 2004 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

ESPN.com clears it up for me:

Craig Biggio: 35th career leadoff HR (tied with Bobby Bonds for third all-time).

― boldbury (boldbury), Saturday, 17 April 2004 05:06 (twenty-two years ago)

And tonight Bidge tied Ted Williams for 30th on the All-Time doubles list. I demand a Frozen-Head Passing Ceremony.

Next on the list is Dave Parker. Mirror and Razor Blade Passing Ceremony?

― boldbury (boldbury), Sunday, 18 April 2004 05:03 (twenty-two years ago)

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