2 questions (from ESPN.com)

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Don't freak out, haterz. This is from Stark's column. They asked scouts 2 questions:

1) Who would you rather have close games, Mariano Rivera or Eric Gagne?


2) Who will finish with more home runs in his career, Ken Griffey, Jr. or Jim Thome?

I'll say Gagne and Thome...

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Robo-Rivera and Thome (never bet against Griffey jr getting injured.)

bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:40 (twenty-one years ago)

rivera consistently faces MUCH better hitting = rivera

griffey is playing on borrowed time = thome

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually I will change my answer to Rivera upon further review. Plus Rivera goes more than 2/3rds an inning most times out

Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 24 June 2004 00:12 (twenty-one years ago)

rivera and thome.

rivera's been there, gagne hasn't. i'd take either in a heartbeat but if i can only have one i'll take the known commodity.

griffey will either be betrayed by his body or turn back into the sullen prick he'd been acting like the last two years and be content with putting up marginal numbers.

otto midnight (otto midnight), Thursday, 24 June 2004 03:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry to derail, but from where did the Mecha Rivera trope come? ILX?

Leeefuse 73 (Leee), Thursday, 24 June 2004 04:29 (twenty-one years ago)

(Ha - almost thought that said "Meche Rivera".)

Maybe he's a robot because of all the times he's been injured - they made him better, faster, etc. He needs to be, given that Torre uses him (& all his good 'uns) like a lawyer uses legal pads. Or it could be the same old boring He Came To Play When It Mattered blah blah blah. Thankfully, Torre's usage patterns allows Mariano to take some time off to rest for September & October. AND I also heard that he "dogs it" during the regular season in preparation for the inevitable playoff run.

Not that I wouldn't pick him, too. I still have memories of Gagne as a starter. Not good memories (obviously).

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 24 June 2004 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)


>rivera consistently faces MUCH better hitting

I love checking those unsubstantiated assertions, and whaddya know, BP has stats for Pitcher's Quality of Opposing Batters:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/pbatfaced2004.html


Mariano Rivera: 155 PA, 0.261 BA, 0.330 OBP, 0.416 SLG
Eric Gagne: 119 PA, .260 BA, 0.335 OBP, 0.413 SLG


In 2003:

Rivera 277, .262/.329/.419
Gagne 306, .263/.335/.420


Can't get much more identical, ratewise.

Thome is 96 HR behind Jr. Odds are still with Griffey, who's only a year older.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

If you took Bonds out of Gagne's #s, how much would his quality of opposing batters drop?

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

i'll take gagnefreak
and griffey junior who will
play until fifty

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't Gagne 5-7 years younger than Mariano, too? Something to consider...

I would take Griffey, too, INJURIES NOTWITHSTANDING. I'm so happy to actually see him play (Griffey playing = Griffey happy = Griffey not having to deal with writers complaining about his worth & brittleness & his "I want out of Seattle" power play = interviews w/ HR about receiving death threats = less Griffey martyrdom = me happy), but, in the back of my mind, I'm waiting for the light to strike the glass in just the wrong way to turn full into empty.

For the record, I also wait around my house for terrorists to attack. And I fear dying in my sleep by choking on a spider.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Based on playoff performance, I'd go with Rivera. Gagne blew the biggest save of his career, other than that game with the D-Backs Rivera is about perfect in the playoffs. Gagne might has more career upside in the long term. Rivera has been a great reliever since he was Wetteland's setup man in 1996, will we be able to say the same about Gagne in 2010? We will have to see.

Thome is at the peak of his career with perhaps a few more seasons to come, I don't know if you can say that about Griffey. The Kid is playing well again, but he isn't playing like he did in the late 90s.

earlnash, Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't Gagne 5-7 years younger than Mariano, too? Something to consider...

as someone else mentioned up thread, there is a reason the gagne is a closer at such a young age: he can only pitch one inning of quality baseball. i saw a few of his starts firsthand a couple years ago, trust me, he made shawn estes look good.

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

add me to the 'rivera-thome' pile

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I would go with Mariano after considering the fact that he's playing in a more pressure-packed situation, constantly in a pennant race, and the times he has faltered in those situations are noteworthy because they're so few and far between. Gagne is dominating for a team that hasn't really had much of a shot since he became the closer. Which isn't to say he couldn't handle it, he's no BY Kim, certainly.

Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 24 June 2004 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Wait, is the question "who would you want closing games for you right now?" or "who would you want on your team in the long term?". Right now, I'd take the more proven Rivera.

Griffey's numbers have been steadily declining since about 1998, even before his recent injury problems. Thome is still at his peak. Even with the 100 homer difference, I'd say Thome wins this in the long run.

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 25 June 2004 23:47 (twenty-one years ago)


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