HOT STOVE LEAGUE 2K6/2K7

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Who cares if the playoffs are still going on? Everyone knows the Yankees are going to win. Again.

Any Cubs / Yanks A-Rod swap better involve trading the "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" sing-along for Kate Fucking Smith.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 19:41 (nineteen years ago)

Apparently the Padres are interested in Adrian Beltre, which I just don't understand.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 19:49 (nineteen years ago)

I don't understand anyone being interested in Adrian Beltre.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 19:51 (nineteen years ago)

For what its worth, Beltre kicked the shit out of the Dodgers at home when the Mariners rolled through here, so he'd allegedly be good in all those NL West contests at the Ravine.

― Stuh-du-du-du-du-du-du-denka (jingleberries), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 19:55 (nineteen years ago)

if the yanks trade a-rod, they're more fucked than i thought.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 19:57 (nineteen years ago)

If the Yanks trade A-Rod for Aramis Ramirez and a good pitching prospect (Rich Hill?), I don't think they're fucked at all.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

I'm a betting man, but if I weren't, I'd change my ways and drop a hundred on Cashman outwitting Hendry.

― mattbot (mattbot), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 20:01 (nineteen years ago)

The Yankees need multiple starting pitchers (i.e. Daisuke Matsuzaka + who else?)

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 20:50 (nineteen years ago)

Ken Macha complaining that Beane told him to play Bobby Kielty over Mark Kotsay vs. lefties, Macha refused.

Kielty v. Lefties: .325/.358/.607
Kotsay: .265/.293/.410

― milo z (mlp), Sunday, 22 October 2006 15:00 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah that complaint doesn't make Macha look real bright.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 22 October 2006 16:09 (nineteen years ago)

I feel bad for Macha cuz he got really eviscerated in the press and by his own players, but he's never exactly distinguished himself so he doesn't have much to argue for his great managerial skills.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 22 October 2006 16:11 (nineteen years ago)

And apparently Kotsay owed it to Macha to keep his mouth shut because he remained in the lineup.

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Sunday, 22 October 2006 16:20 (nineteen years ago)

LOL MAYBE IF HE DIDN"T WEAR GLASSES HE COULD SEE THOSE NUMBERS AMIRITE

― If you fuck with Jimmy Mod, you call down the thunder (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Sunday, 22 October 2006 17:15 (nineteen years ago)

The Yankees need multiple starting pitchers

Schmidt

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 22 October 2006 18:36 (nineteen years ago)

re: beltre
the m's and padres have a long history of shlub-for-shlub trades, so i could see it.

― jergins (jergins), Sunday, 22 October 2006 22:14 (nineteen years ago)

JAMIE MOYER
$10.5 M / 2 YEARS

The quest for 79 wins begins!

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 23 October 2006 18:24 (nineteen years ago)

For the Fillies.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 23 October 2006 18:24 (nineteen years ago)

hey, is mikeoptins pulling Cashman's strings? also, Mulder, Ted Lilly and Ray Durham for Mets? Glavine & Maddux back to Atlanta?

"If the Yankees do deal A-Rod, they will 'go after a guy like Mark DeRosa' because Cashman is said to admire the University of Pennsylvania product's grit, ability to play several positions, and desire to win at all costs."

http://www.gothambaseball.com/news/1161579748.php

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 19:41 (nineteen years ago)

He discovered this during a particularly cutt-throat game of Battleship last off-season.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 19:50 (nineteen years ago)

omfg i would poop my pants until they were full of magic if maddux came back to atlanta. glavine can come too i guess.

― (9ò_ó)-o Q(^.^Q) (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 20:33 (nineteen years ago)

Why not get back Neagle and Schmidt while you're at it.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 21:41 (nineteen years ago)

and the rokr

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 22:11 (nineteen years ago)

How difficult is it to go after a guy like Mark DeRosa? Is there a shortage of league-average 'tenth man' players?

― milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 22:32 (nineteen years ago)

One's with grit and a determination to win?!? They are rare like mint copies of first issue of the Avengers.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 22:42 (nineteen years ago)

How difficult is it to go after a guy like Mark DeRosa?

Well, you would have to have a tradeable commodity. Who are the Yankees going to trade to get DeRosa? The Rangers need pitching, and unless the Rangers are giving up Hughes, Wang or Proctor they don't really have anyone I'd take were I the Rangers' GM.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 23:16 (nineteen years ago)

Or you could just sign another free agent. Aging multi-position players with a .730 lifetime OPS are not exactly the Golden Eggs of baseball.

― milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 23:44 (nineteen years ago)

DeRosa was 58th in the AL in hitter VORP last year, but you'd think the Yankees would know he's not gonna do that ag ... oops. Tony Womack.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 12:23 (nineteen years ago)

Sheff pissed Yanks exercise option on him (to trade him, most likely). Then you shouldn't have signed it, nitwit.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2639001

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 October 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

I think he just doesn't want to play first base. After watching him try, I don't blame him.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 26 October 2006 16:04 (nineteen years ago)

Rob Neyer: (1:03 PM ET ) Well, you have to understand, that Gary Sheffield never has attained the maturity of, say, your typical college freshman. So this seems about par for the course.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 October 2006 16:15 (nineteen years ago)

Keith Law: (12:05 PM ET ) I think the Padres' front office, or at least some of its members, realized that there's no way Bochy could produce enough value to earn the $2 million or so he was going to want after all this courtship by other clubs. He's a terrible in-game, tactical manager, and while he gets high marks for player management and media relations, he can't possibly be good enough in those areas to overcome the fact that he can't manage his roster.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 October 2006 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

I basically agree with that except for the fact that the Padres routinely have bad players on the field, and he has consistency overachieved with those bad players, and subsequently earned a lot of revenue for his owners. If the Padres are going to try to become a perennial competitive team, fine. If they're continue to play with a 60mil payroll, uh, hey guys, the manager isn't the problem.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 27 October 2006 21:39 (nineteen years ago)

Bochy helps Bonds pick new team

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Monday, 30 October 2006 14:58 (nineteen years ago)

Matt (St. Louis): With the Cardinals having over $30 million to spend this offseason who will they look at signing? The rumors out of St. Louis is we are looking at Schmidt?

Rob Neyer: (12:10 PM ET ) Seems like a great fit, considering TLR's history of success with veteran pitchers. But as I wrote in my column, THE biggest story of this off-season is going to be the huge contracts the free-agent pitchers get. And there are more teams with money than free-agent pitchers.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

barry bonds says words, they have nothing to do with his thoughts, they are just subjects and predicates in his mental kingdom

DYING OVER HERE

― Django Blowhardt (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 17:40 (nineteen years ago)

thats right i bust you up, who are you, coming here saying you've coached the padres, who are they, the padres have nothing to do with barry bonds

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 18:00 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think I've ever laughed so hard.

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 18:01 (nineteen years ago)

Sides hurt again

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 19:53 (nineteen years ago)

FIVE BILLION PAZOOZAS

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 20:00 (nineteen years ago)

Angels to pursue Zito in spite of having Lackey, Santana, Escobar, Weaver, Colon and Saunders on hand. In the same article it says the Halos are also going hard after Gary Matthews Jr. Enjoy that one, Stoneman.

― Stuh-du-du-du-du-du-du-denka (jingleberries), Thursday, 2 November 2006 22:33 (nineteen years ago)

Well, I think they're planning on turning Santana into Alex Rodriguez.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 2 November 2006 23:34 (nineteen years ago)

Ron Washington (longtime Oakland infield coach) took the manager job for the Rangers.

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:16 (nineteen years ago)

I'm happy for Ron even if I am sad for the A's infield defense.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:57 (nineteen years ago)

Pedro: "To go back I have to recover. I have to be healthy. But if God doesn't want that, then I would have to think about giving it all up."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2648747

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 6 November 2006 18:46 (nineteen years ago)

I read that Heilman was the subject of trade talk with the D-Rays.

haha pwn3d AGAIN!

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Monday, 6 November 2006 18:51 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe they're trying to get Kazmir!

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 6 November 2006 19:22 (nineteen years ago)

hahaha.

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Monday, 6 November 2006 19:29 (nineteen years ago)

Heilman + Lastings!

(+ FIVE BILLION PAZOOZAS)

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 6 November 2006 19:44 (nineteen years ago)

The Red Sox are starting to look smart for not signing Pedro to a four year deal. It didn't take a crystal ball to foresee that he'd have some serious injury issues during the length of that contract. They'd look even smarter if Clement had turned out to be a decent pitcher.

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Monday, 6 November 2006 20:13 (nineteen years ago)

Shasta, you dingaling, I think with Mota gone for 50 games and Sanchez coming back from the injury they are going to have to get some kind of keystone in a deal for Heilman.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 6 November 2006 21:17 (nineteen years ago)

Skipping 208 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I wouldn't have expected him to throw me out either!

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:05 (nineteen years ago)

Haha

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:06 (nineteen years ago)

I do wonder how many runners took an extra base off him.

― Pamplaxico Polancobon (Andy_K), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:22 (nineteen years ago)

It's funny that in this day and era, 3B coaches probably still communicate via smoke signals.

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:24 (nineteen years ago)

forget reyes, wtf is trevor hoffman doing in the top ten?

San Diego sportswriters get to vote too!

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:24 (nineteen years ago)

also, look at the damage soriano did in the nl last year playing 1/2 his games at a pretty severe pitcher's park. not entirely sure of what the splits were, but i saw him hit some absolute moonshots at rfk.

Two words, brother:
Adrian. Beltre.

― milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:54 (nineteen years ago)

beltre had never had a similar season to '04, it was a fluke. soriano's been pretty consistent over the past four seasons.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 02:06 (nineteen years ago)

wtf mets decline glavine's option. they are losing me as a fan with the off-season moves, so far.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 02:42 (nineteen years ago)

soriano's been pretty consistent over the past four seasons.
?!?!?!

This is the first time he's had an OBP over .350 and a fairly flukey slugging year, while entering the end of his 'prime.' Assuming he can even continue performing at last year's level (and isn't a disaster in center) - how long can that hold up?

He's probably a good player to have, but he's not the sixth most valuable player in major-league history.

― milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:56 (nineteen years ago)

he's not the sixth most valuable player in major-league history.

Right, but his contract has nothing to do with his value in major league history. Is he worth $17 mil per year in this market? Arguably. Maybe a little overpaid. Will he continue to perform? Not to the same level, but he probably will be worth, say, $13mil per year. Does the market figure to stay somewhat the same for a while? Yeah, I would say so. Revenue is up across the board in every respect.

He's especially valuable if the Cubs have the balls to play him at 2b, but instead they will throw money at Mark Derosa for no particular reason. Let Felix Pie have a run at CF and play Derosa as a superutility guy. Murton and Jones are solid (if unspectacular) at the corners.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:47 (nineteen years ago)

Two words, brother:
Adrian. Beltre.

Beltre was actually not that bad last year. He wasn't worth his contract, but he had a good season. Arguably a better season than Eric Chavez, who has a similar contract but little criticism to go with it.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:48 (nineteen years ago)

it's not like the cubs are running out of cash though, so who cares.

― get yr coat luv uve jes bin pulld (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:50 (nineteen years ago)

There are like 6 yankees that make more than Soriano right now.

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:56 (nineteen years ago)

Not to the same level, but he probably will be worth, say, $13mil per year.
On what do you base this? Where are you getting any of your numbers? An older, lesser player than Carlos Beltran with one season where he might arguable have been worth something in the teens.

It's an absurd contract. The Cubs are tilting after a bad season and overpaid for a guy who will never perform as well as he did last year, and will probably never even approach it for half of his contract.

Carlos Lee - league-average corner outfielder, hit almost as well last season (.300 EQA vs. .304), with a much better track record (hitting and fielding), and he's the same age as Soriano. You think he's a $140mn player?

― milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:42 (nineteen years ago)

i think the consensus seems to be that carlos lee is gonna break down a lot sooner than soriano, he's got serious "old player skills", walks only slightly more than soriano, is the same age, and is likely gonna be forced into a DH role before long. and when i said soriano was 'consistent', look at what he's done. his slugging year wasn't "flukey", considering he's hit 39, 38, 28, and 36 HR in the previous four seasons (plus a boatload of doubles). I'd rather have soriano than carlos lee, most definitely. especially since soriano can play a middle infield position if needed, as was mentioned above. overpaid? yeah of course, but who isn't? but i'm not an accountant so i'm not gonna worry that much about the salary.

of course, he's not the best player the cubs could have landed, they would have been better served grabbing beltran a couple years back. but like i said, i'd sooner have the overspending hendry now than the "let's cut loose maddux for jose guzman" larry himes of yesteryear.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:49 (nineteen years ago)

the cubs are always going to overpay. that's why they're the cubs.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 07:54 (nineteen years ago)

wtf mets decline glavine's option. they are losing me as a fan with the off-season moves, so far.

I'm pretty sure this was always part of the plan (i.e., Glavine knew they wouldn't pick it up), and that they negotiate from here.

Pierre to Dodgers, 5yrs/$45mil: "He's another guy with great qualities as a human being, like Nomar [Garciaparra]," Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti told the Associated Press.

― g00blar (gooblar), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:06 (nineteen years ago)

On what do you base this?

If ancient Frank Thomas is worth $10mil per on this market, Soriano is definitely worth at least $13mil.

You think he's a $140mn player?

If he somewhat adequately could be trusted to play CF or 2B, absolutely. Solely as a corner outfielder, probably not.

An older, lesser player than Carlos Beltran

Beltran would almost definitely make 20mil per in this market.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:13 (nineteen years ago)

the pierre move could only happen in george bush's america.

overpaid mediocrity? all he needs is a change of scenery and a raise!

― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 12:47 (nineteen years ago)

stenc, Glavine's option was for $14 mil, wasn't it? no fuckin' way you pay that.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:18 (nineteen years ago)

Morb OTM. If you're going to pay $14M for a pitcher, it might behoove you to snag one that's on the right side of 40 (or maybe even 30).

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:27 (nineteen years ago)

If ancient Frank Thomas is worth $10mil per on this market, Soriano is definitely worth at least $13mil.
Uh, you understand Frank didn't sign for eight years and Soriano didn't sign for $13, right?

If he somewhat adequately could be trusted to play CF or 2B, absolutely. Solely as a corner outfielder, probably not.
Key issue: Soriano has never played CF and can't be trusted to play 2B.

― milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:44 (nineteen years ago)

Uh, you understand Frank didn't sign for eight years and Soriano didn't sign for $13, right?

Yeah, but that was the number you took issue with. If 13/14 is a reasonable figure (in my opinion, it is), then 17 means he's overpaid by a few mil per. The Cubs can afford it. 8 years is the bigger issue, I agree with you on that point. But at some point you just trade the guy to the Yankees and the problem is solved!

Key issue: Soriano has never played CF and can't be trusted to play 2B.

I agree with you on CF but Hendry doesn't. I think he's a perfectly adequate below-average 2B guy, along the lines of a Jeff Kent. You'd prefer to have someone better there, but if you have to choose between Soriano in CF and Soriano in 2B, you have to want him to play 2B, right?

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:15 (nineteen years ago)

Mussina gets 2yrs/$23M

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:02 (nineteen years ago)

Neyer in chat:

The Cubs' NUMBER ONE priority this winter should have been improving the team OBP . . . and Hendry spends the money on a guy with a .325 career mark that's nine points *lower* than the league average?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:13 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but that was the number you took issue with.
I took issue with the contract, the number and the years. At some point those long-term, backloaded contracts come back to haunt a franchise, where they can't compete in four years because their payroll is tied up in a schmuck. (I know, I live 2 miles from one of these.)

think he's a perfectly adequate below-average 2B guy, along the lines of a Jeff Kent.
But, uh, Kent has consistently been an above-average (bordering on very good) second basemen - Soriano was a statue his last two years in the infield.

― milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:20 (nineteen years ago)

how old is mussina?

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:34 (nineteen years ago)

Moose will be 38 next month, but the Yankees always pay more.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:06 (nineteen years ago)

The battle of overpaid center fielders will take place in Los Angeles (of Anaheim). Rumors of a Gary Matthews to Angles for 5/50 popping up.

― Stuh-du-du-du-du-du-du-denka (jingleberries), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:20 (nineteen years ago)

twat?

― If you fuck with Jimmy Mod, you call down the thunder (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:40 (nineteen years ago)

Who'd a thunk - one good season at the right time would net you so much dough!

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

Adrian Beltre better coach him on how to handle the inevitable post-signing letdown.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

That might be the worst signing of the offseason thus far.

Shit, I'm starting to feel really good about four more years of BJ Ryan at 10M per.

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:00 (nineteen years ago)

It was awesome when the Padres had Matthews for the veteran minimum and still got rid of him.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

On that same note, Jaret Wright.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

Im really waiting to see how retarded the pitching deals get. Weaver and Suppan stand to make a shitload of money in this market.

― Stuh-du-du-du-du-du-du-denka (jingleberries), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:05 (nineteen years ago)

(xxpost)Yeah last years deals look positively brilliant.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:10 (nineteen years ago)

I know this is apples to oranges - but how can Catalanotto sign at 13.5 mil for 3 years while Jr gets this absurd contract?! They're at about the same level talent-wise, imho.

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:14 (nineteen years ago)

Matthews plays CF and people are idiots about centerfielders this offseason.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:15 (nineteen years ago)

"That might be the worst signing of the offseason thus far."

Ahem JUAN PIERRE ahem!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

Although PECOTA likes Pierre more than Matthews so maybe even that's a better deal.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:19 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, PECOTA, so fickle.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:23 (nineteen years ago)

Matthews has only two seasons as an everyday player under his belt! He's not even All-Star caliber! He excels at nothing! He's 32 -- what are the chances he's worth 10 million at age 37?

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:24 (nineteen years ago)

Haha but what does Juan Pierre have going for himself? Spunk! Juan Pierre is a less talented David Eckstein who steals more and gets caught more!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:31 (nineteen years ago)

Is there a new PECOTA? YSI!?!?!?!?!

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:40 (nineteen years ago)

No it's just last years.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:41 (nineteen years ago)

He's not even All-Star caliber!

He was an all-star this year, though.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

both Kahrl and Sheehan at Prospectus think Mets shoulda re-optioned Glavine; I guess we'll know if they blew it if he winds up in Atl.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 November 2006 17:03 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah it's moot if they resign him, but $14m for one year of Tom Glavine seems like a good deal in this market right now.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 23 November 2006 17:04 (nineteen years ago)

seems like a very good deal!

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 November 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

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