Neyer just answered a realignment question like so:
"I thought it was just talk, until Olney wrote that it's just a matter of when (not if). Of course, nothing lasts forever. But I don't know something will change in 2012, or 2022."
Did anyone see this BO piece?
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 17:37 (thirteen years ago) link
i guess he's talking about this, but seems more speculative than anything:
There is no perfectly equitable system for realignment, unless you stick all 30 teams in one monstrous league and try to have them play one another an equal number of games -- which couldn't happen, by the way, unless you went with a 145-game or 174-game season.
So somebody is going to get ripped off, to some degree.
Somebody is going to have to play the Yankees or the Red Sox or the Phillies more than other teams. If you operate under the premise that the National League and American League are going to continue to exist, and that you'd like interleague play to be something that happens within a brief window of the season, rather than be dragged out all summer, then one league is going to have more teams than the other.
If you keep the divisions intact, somebody is going to have to try to compete head-to-head with the Yankees' payroll, and try to gamely fire BBs against the Yankees' gold-plated machine guns. We all can blog and comment and debate about how great a salary cap might be, but peace in the Middle East is probably closer to happening than overhauling a system -- a system within the union's embrace -- via massive changes that could limit player salaries.
What should be done, then?
Well, after talking with some executives, talent evaluators and players this spring, this is the plan we'd propose to the commissioner's gang of 14:
# Keep the leagues intact, but eliminate the divisions entirely.
In other words, we're going retro, or pre-1969. It worked in the building of ballparks, and it can work for the leagues, too.
The divisions have served baseball nicely, but it makes no sense that the Angels have to compete against three other teams for their division title, and the Pittsburgh Pirates and Cincinnati Reds have to compete against five teams.
Fourteen American League teams, 16 National League teams, all stacked up together in two big happy bunches.
# Give playoff spots to the top six teams in each league.
The introduction of the wild card in the '90s provided more hope for more teams -- keeping more teams in play, keeping more teams in the conversation. Most baseball fans would probably not want an NBA-style playoff bracket, which sort of mirrors what the kids went through in pre-school: Nobody is allowed to lose.
But part of the lure of the NCAA tournament is that everybody loves the Butler and George Mason stories. It would be a good thing for baseball if some second-division team stepped up and made a late-season run at the playoffs, riding a couple of hot pitchers. The team that might have been the most fun, in recent seasons, was the Milwaukee Brewers of 2008; they seemingly had to win every day, and their ballpark was packed and the atmosphere around that team was electric.
The three-game series would be pressure-packed and intense, and could make for the kind of baseball we saw in the tiebreaker play-in games that pitted the Rockies versus the Padres in 2007 and the Twins versus the Tigers in 2009.
# Throw some playoff obstacles in front of the lowest seeds.
You can't mitigate success over a 162-game season; you need to reward the summerlong success. The two teams that finished with the best records in their respective leagues would have a first-round bye, and then the No. 3 and No. 4 teams would play host to the No. 5 and No. 6 teams in the first round of the playoffs -- in a three-game series. Again, this is retro, going back to the old tiebreakers that led to Bobby Thomson's home run in 1951.
Here's the wrinkle: The No. 3 and No. 4 seeds would have home-field advantage for the entire three-game series.
So let's say, for example, that the Brewers scrambled at the end of the season, as they did in 2008, to make the postseason; let's say they were the No. 6 seed. They'd be thrilled to have survived.
But the No. 3 and No. 4 teams should get stronger footing in a short series, because of what they earned over the six months of the regular season; reward them with three home games in that first round, played on consecutive days.
As those three-game series are played out, the No. 1 and No. 2 seeds would have four days to rest and to line up their starting pitching. The top seeds would be rewarded for their body of work during the long, hot summer, without being forced to sit and wait too long for the lower seeds to complete the first round.
The regular season would end on a Sunday. The best-of-three would be played Monday through Thursday. The next round would start on a Saturday.
The second round of the postseason would pit the No. 1 and No. 2 seeds against the winners of the first round, in seven-game series -- with the usual format continuing through the League Championship Series and the World Series.
# Build the regular-season schedules off the final standings.
I've written about this idea several times before, about how MLB should take a page from the NFL and give the weakest teams more games against the other weak teams. In other words, with a system like this in place, the Pirates would have more games this season against teams like the Nationals and Reds, increasing their chances for success.
The realignment that is forthcoming -- and it's not a matter of if realignment is going to happen, it's a matter of what form it will take -- should be all about trying to create as much parity for teams that will never truly compete on a level playing field.
Right now, there is too much disparity of hope in place. The Rays, Orioles and Jays annually are eclipsed by the Red Sox and Yankees. Those clubs have much less chance for competitive success, no matter how they run their respective operations, than the Angels, because of the structure that is in place.
There were several seasons in the past decade in which the Blue Jays probably ranked among the top 10 teams in the majors, but they were elbowed out of the playoffs by the current alignment system. Maybe, if the Blue Jays had made the playoffs, Roy Halladay's success -- and that of the Jays -- would have been rewarded. Maybe he would not have felt compelled to force his way out of town, to pursue an opportunity to win.
The Reds are caught in the vise of the largest division in the majors. The Nationals and Marlins have to climb over the Phillies and Mets, two teams whose resources are much greater.
The system suggested here is imperfect, like all proposals. But it would bring a higher degree of hope; it would give teams like the Royals and Rangers and Reds -- and their fans -- a greater opportunity at experiencing baseball in October.
Lots of rain is falling where we live, and inevitably, when that happens, the Internet service gets very choppy; the ol' computer was downloading at a rate of about one page for every 15 minutes. We'll try again Tuesday morning.
And today will be better than yesterday.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 17:40 (thirteen years ago) link
actually those are all decent ideas
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 17:42 (thirteen years ago) link
ugh. Maybe compared to these:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tom_verducci/03/09/floating-realignment/index.html
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 17:47 (thirteen years ago) link
Locals want to see the Rangers move to the Central (two-hour time difference sucks for night games), but there's no one to replace them with in the West.
― FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT IN THE PARKING LOT! (milo z), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 17:53 (thirteen years ago) link
any realignment that doesn't focus on $ isn't gonna do much
― iatee, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 17:53 (thirteen years ago) link
the divisions are retarded in general. i totally support going back to a leagues-only alignment.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 18:08 (thirteen years ago) link
that floating realignment is the dumbest thing ever. the only thing that will result in is the sox and yankees winning 135 games a year at the expense of whatever team floats in there getting a bigger gate for 9 games a year. ticket sales arent even the biggest slice in the revenue pie anyway..
― mayor jingleberries, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 18:10 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah floating realignment would be a competitive disaster--i have no idea why they would consider this
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 18:12 (thirteen years ago) link
floating realignment is idiotic but the other suggestions above are all right by me, except for a 12-team play-off
― max, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 18:21 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah def not crazy about that although if you must do it i like the 3 game, better team at home series.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 18:22 (thirteen years ago) link
ugh i hate the five-game series so much i assume i would really hate the 3-game series
― max, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 18:24 (thirteen years ago) link
i am conflicted--i hate making the playoffs longer from a fan perspective but i also understand that to maintain interest to the end of the season more teams need to have something to play for.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 18:28 (thirteen years ago) link
No 162-game season should have a fucking three-game (or five game) postseason series.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 18:32 (thirteen years ago) link
ppl need to let go of the idea that the postseason proves or means anything and just enjoy it for drama/lols
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 18:36 (thirteen years ago) link
One 30-team division.
162-game season determines seeding of single-elimination tournament.
For the first round, the two teams with the highest winning pct will play against split squads of the Long Island Ducks.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 18:41 (thirteen years ago) link
There is enough "maintenance of interest" w/ the current system, MLB makes more dough every year (at least til the crash of '08). It needs better OWNERS in the case of a few teams.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 18:43 (thirteen years ago) link
they need to load up on double headers to shorten the season then stretch out the first division playoff round to win 4 / best of seven. winning three is a total dice roll.
floating realignment is wtf worthy ridiculous
― sanskrit, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 18:45 (thirteen years ago) link
162 game playoffs between the top 30 teams.
― The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 19:50 (thirteen years ago) link
u ppl act like 7 is really that much better than 3. what exactly are we determining?
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 19:52 (thirteen years ago) link
Seven is much better than three.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:00 (thirteen years ago) link
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, March 30, 2010 3:52 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
champion of the world iirc
― max, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:03 (thirteen years ago) link
especially if the seven are stretched out so you can pitch c.c. every game
xp
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:04 (thirteen years ago) link
7 games - in one day.
― The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:07 (thirteen years ago) link
someone here was lobbying for a premiereship league type structure a year or few ago...
― ✌.✰|ʘ‿ʘ|✰.✌ (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:09 (thirteen years ago) link
this is all part of the whole 2012 catastrophe that'll culminate in a cubs-royals world series
― Twink Will Ferrell (J0hn D.), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:19 (thirteen years ago) link
if the NHL and NBA have taught us one thing it's that come-one-come-all playoffs mean the regular season becomes a load of bupkis, mid-season games are entirely unwatchable (december -> february hockey is difficult, and I say that as a fan) and you eventually have some NBA shit where a sub-.500 team or two make the playoffs and sportswriters (controversial) start handwringing and praying for a return of the 15' jumper and sensible layups/white point guards. Then, there is a women's league introduced.
― Astronaut Mike Dexter (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:22 (thirteen years ago) link
except none of that would happen in baseball?
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:24 (thirteen years ago) link
well, we've already had some playoff teams perilously close to .500
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:25 (thirteen years ago) link
who'd have thought that the month of March would see Buster Olney endorse a NCAA hoops-style system.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:26 (thirteen years ago) link
xp exactly--and it's because the divisions were fucked. those races in all likelihood resulted in a good team getting shut out of the wild card.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:27 (thirteen years ago) link
how is it like ncaa?
i say we send the braves back to the nl west and be done with it
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:27 (thirteen years ago) link
sorry, I forgot that the real answer is EXPANSION to make the teams even in the divisions
― Astronaut Mike Dexter (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:29 (thirteen years ago) link
lol wat
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:30 (thirteen years ago) link
well, we've already had some playoff teams perilously close to .500― mookieproof, Tuesday, March 30, 2010 1:25 PM (3 minutes ago)
― mookieproof, Tuesday, March 30, 2010 1:25 PM (3 minutes ago)
...not to mention world series champions...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_St._Louis_Cardinals_season
― q, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:32 (thirteen years ago) link
oh yeah, that's where we determine which team is the best, right?
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:33 (thirteen years ago) link
poorly phrased: an equal # of teams in a div. xp
― Astronaut Mike Dexter (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:38 (thirteen years ago) link
Your World Series champion St. Louis Cardinals.
― jam master (jaymc), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:39 (thirteen years ago) link
oops xpost
Toronto's performance in 2008 was ranked #4 in the AL by BP - and the Jays finished 4th in the AL East. Please eliminate divisions now. kthx
― francisF, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 21:19 (thirteen years ago) link
i do like the no divisions / balanced schedule proposal but having the 6th best team in each league make the postseason after a 162 game season is kind of gross, keep it at 4 per league imo. no point in having such a long season if you're not gonna narrow it down to a real small set of teams
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 21:33 (thirteen years ago) link
also it would totally be possible to have 15 teams per league without interleague play but it would require teams having weekend off-days sometimes to properly stagger everyone's schedule
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link
it is cool how the NBA manages to keep throwing you surprises in the postseason but like Jimmy the Mod says, that comes at the expense of early and mid-season games which all just feel incredibly pointless, big-arc-wise (and the players often play that way)
the NFL keeps throwing you surprises too but of course it does, with a 16 game season surprises are guaranteed.
it's crazy how american sports are all exempt from antitrust regulations, how they're literally cartels. endless questions and politicking about balance and alignment and salary caps and revenue sharing are the inevitable result. but weirdly, it means they can actually address - with semi-straight faces - issues of "competitive balance". they can get socialistic! and they have to, to keep people interested. they have to put on a good show. it's the socialism of showbiz. but in british soccer it's sink or swim. there's no cartel. no illusions. the same four teams dominate the league every year. if some zillionaire wants to buy exeter city as a plaything and purchase the best european talent money can buy, he can go straight to the top of the charts. so you find other ways to be a fan.
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 23:02 (thirteen years ago) link
UP IS DOWN SOUTH IS NORTH
― sanskrit, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 00:40 (thirteen years ago) link
wait, MLB is the only league with an actual anti-trust exemption, right?
― a cross between lily allen and fetal alcohol syndrome (milo z), Wednesday, 31 March 2010 04:44 (thirteen years ago) link
unless Tracer has evidence to the contrary.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 31 March 2010 07:43 (thirteen years ago) link
no no you're right. i just assumed the others did too, since they're closed clubs. how do the NFL and the NBA control membership?
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 09:18 (thirteen years ago) link
I really like the idea of scrapping the divisions and just going with a seeded playoffs. I also kind of like the idea of a schedule based on previous year record.
Good God...just have the Yankees and Red Sox play each other 62 times a year. That's all they want to show anyway.
Baseball is over exposed as it is, I don't see expansion happening un-less you get into some oddball relegation premier league kind of setup where you have a bunch of the AAA teams become big league teams with some kind of screwy tiered divisions.
― earlnash, Thursday, 1 April 2010 02:11 (thirteen years ago) link
no premier league, fuck Europe.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 1 April 2010 02:14 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah i wouldnt want tiered divisions if i were a mets fan either
― max, Thursday, 1 April 2010 11:19 (thirteen years ago) link
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/5/5/gotchabitch128545103996260000.jpg
― sanskrit, Thursday, 1 April 2010 12:46 (thirteen years ago) link
BLOCKA BLOCKA
― max, Thursday, 1 April 2010 12:56 (thirteen years ago) link
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/tracerhand/its_on_now.jpg
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 1 April 2010 14:52 (thirteen years ago) link
no evidence shown for 'a building consensus' but nevertheless: EXPANSION COULD TRIGGER REALIGNMENT, LONGER POSTSEASON
― mookieproof, Monday, 16 October 2017 19:52 (six years ago) link
change is death
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 October 2017 19:59 (six years ago) link
jaffe digs deeper: https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/10/19/major-league-baseball-expansion-proposal-realignment
― mookieproof, Thursday, 19 October 2017 18:47 (six years ago) link
That alignment for the Reds would be pretty bad without 18 home games with the Cards and Cubs to help fill the place and outside the Pirates, they would not have any old rivalry clubs in their division including Cleveland, which somehow wouldn't be in the same division.
― earlnash, Thursday, 19 October 2017 21:30 (six years ago) link
this is all ridiculous and will never happen, but my version would be skip portland, go to charlotte or san antonio (which are slightly larger metro areas anyway) instead and do this:
AtlantaBaltimoreCharlotte/San AntonioHoustonMiamiTampa BayTexasWashington
BostonClevelandMontrealYankeesMetsPhiladelphiaPittsburghToronto
CubsWhite SoxCincinnatiDetroitKansas CityMilwaukeeMinnesotaSt. Louis
AnaheimArizonaColoradoLos AngelesOaklandSan DiegoSan FranciscoSeattle
god knows the pirates would get butchered in that division but at least they wouldn't be in with all the boring southeast teams
― mookieproof, Thursday, 19 October 2017 21:55 (six years ago) link
All this 4-division talk is presuming DH for everybody, isn't it? Blech.
― WilliamC, Thursday, 19 October 2017 21:59 (six years ago) link
those divisions are weird (minnesota with boston/NY rather than milwaukee/chicago? splitting philly and NY?) but i like the concept in general
― ciderpress, Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:18 (six years ago) link
mookie's divisions look a lot better
― ciderpress, Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:19 (six years ago) link
regardless of how you split it its awkward since there's 9 midwest teams, and portland would be the 9th west team
― ciderpress, Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:56 (six years ago) link
this could push me into being one of those SABR guys who doesnt watch contemporary baseball
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 October 2017 23:26 (six years ago) link
these articles are really taking manfred's talk at face value when it's much more likely he's just yawping about new cities to bluff the current ones into paying for new parks
― qualx, Friday, 20 October 2017 00:29 (six years ago) link
even if he's serious, why expand when there are teams in oakland and TB that could just as easily move?
anyway i honestly just kneejerk hate every realignment plan because they always always separate my team from NY and BOS. i know our rivalries with those teams aren't as classic as the one they have together, but they're rivalries that have been there from the beginning of the franchise, and i don't want them to be in a different division.
and while going back to 8 team divisions may sound nice there's a 0% chance of that ever happening. instead they'd go the NFL/NBA route and it'll be disgusting.
― qualx, Friday, 20 October 2017 00:33 (six years ago) link
sure manfred's posturing, but expansion team buy-in would be over $1B each; even split 30 ways that's a lot of cash
otoh, unless they get insanely rich owners who don't care about the money (e.g. steve ballmer) the new teams simply won't be able to compete with the dodgers/cubs/yankees/sox of the world. north america is running out of metro areas that can support 80-some home games and related tv revenue per year (and you can bet everyone's taking a hard look at mexico city, but that doesn't seem likely to work anytime soon)
― mookieproof, Friday, 20 October 2017 00:51 (six years ago) link
hear u cluckin about the rivalries tho -- when i was a kid the pirates' rivals were the phillies and mets
tbf it's hard to hold up one end of a rivalry when yr team sucks for a quarter-century
― mookieproof, Friday, 20 October 2017 00:55 (six years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRf-RUIVwAA1E8k.jpg
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 December 2017 15:53 (six years ago) link
Chihuahuas-SacNulls is an epic rivalry.
― WilliamC, Wednesday, 20 December 2017 16:08 (six years ago) link