the anti-elitist: because latinx is primarily used in online social-justice-social-media and academia the majority of people using it are bougie gringx
I know plenty of people who use latinx who are of the group to which it refers. Yes, they are "SJWs" or "SJW adjacent" ... it makes me wince a bit that you seem to be denying marginalized POC the ability to be both "authentically" POC and active in areas historically dominated by white ppl.
I feel like latinx is functional as a shorthand for "latino/latina" even if you take the issue of gender binary out of the equation. And it feels a bit more inclusive than Hispanic -- in the way that Alfred mentions re Brazilians.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:13 (four years ago) link
i am latino
― ت (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:13 (four years ago) link
Thanks!
― sarahell, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:14 (four years ago) link
ladx
― deems of internment (darraghmac), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:22 (four years ago) link
laxs(xx)
― ت (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:23 (four years ago) link
sarahell you may be in an unusual group at least acc to that op article the number of latinx ppl who would refer to themselves with that name are marginal
― Mordy, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:24 (four years ago) link
i have latinx coworkers and friends that self identify as latinx; they are entirely under the age of 35.
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:25 (four years ago) link
xp Mordy -- I live in the SF Bay Area -- totally not representative of national norms, I will cop to that no problem
revealed belief: there is something inherently dorky about podcasts
― sarahell, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:26 (four years ago) link
xp at least one latinx friend is trans, so does that make calling them "latinx" more or less objectionable to you?
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:32 (four years ago) link
(nb: i am not going to take my social cues regarding race from ross fucking douthat)
I realize I'm posting anecdotal evidence, but none of the 20 to 30 students I work with closely -- 90 percent of whom are of Latin or South American origin -- identify as Latinx. And we have several gender-nonconforming students in this group.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:34 (four years ago) link
i misread the name as douchehat
― sarahell, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:34 (four years ago) link
No you read correctly
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:35 (four years ago) link
are you asking me? if that's what they want to be called it seems ok to me i only question the wisdom of using these terms in political stump speeches when the number of ppl in the group who like the term are so marginal. obviously there's a difference between calling someone acc to their personal preference and what you say when talking about / addressing a much larger group. xxp
― Mordy, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:35 (four years ago) link
Warren also "said their names" re trans POC women killed this year, iirc? ... It seems like a strategic, considerate move to connect with progressive ppl who view issues of "identity politics" to be significant, whereas the social media filtered Sanders' messaging doesn't acknowledge these issues as much as some people would find appealing/reassuring? ... Not to bring this thread back to Bernie Bros ... I mean, if I want to talk about Warren vs. Sanders, I could spend even more time on FB
― sarahell, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:40 (four years ago) link
my feeling is that there's a SJ culture and then there are SJ issues and the two aren't synonymous and the former involves stuff like battling over terminology/idiom but is deeply unappealing to many ppl including ppl it supposedly covers and that there are issues that might be more widely popular if divorced from this sorta cultural discursive milieu - my preference is entirely the latter (substantive issues) and not the former (rhetorical maneuvers) at all primarily on pragmatic grounds but also personally i find the whole thing kinda tedious but that's subjective obv
― Mordy, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:44 (four years ago) link
You're not wrong about the sense in which it feels like imposition, but part of the "people it supposedly covers" are LGBT people.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:49 (four years ago) link
i like latinx because it looks cool. But I also get confused about it so try to state the country instead (colombians, guatemalans) mostly to pause the americans who assume all spanish speakers are mexicans or puerto ricans.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:52 (four years ago) link
there's a SJ culture and then there are SJ issues and the two aren't synonymous
true, but there is overlap, and the "culture" often is, fuck it, "avant-garde" when it comes to issues or ways in which the issues end up being discussed and framed years/decades later. It's like that "goofy song title" thread -- practices from these esoteric realms often work their way into more popular arenas and then people end up asking, "so where did this come from"?
― sarahell, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:56 (four years ago) link
Does anyone have a link to the progressive pollster poll Douthat is writing about?
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 22:21 (four years ago) link
https://medium.com/@ThinkNowTweets/progressive-latino-pollster-trust-me-latinos-do-not-identify-with-latinx-63229adebcea
― Mordy, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 22:23 (four years ago) link
But I also get confused about it so try to state the country instead (colombians, guatemalans) mostly to pause the americans who assume all spanish speakers are mexicans or puerto ricans.
― Yerac, Wednesday, November 6, 2019 4:52 PM (forty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Obviously this is the ideal solution, and I do find it somewhat frustrating that pushing for this isn't the "SJ" project. Coming up with a more gender-inclusive way to keep using old racial categories sucks, even if I recognize the pragmatics at work (and that latinx might want to find a term to build alliances across national borders).
More appropriate for this thread: having lived through a lot of terminological innovation, I feel like I'm basically waiting for 'latinx' to be replaced with a less tricky term.
― rob, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 22:43 (four years ago) link
lateen-ex
― ت (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, November 6, 2019 2:11 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
fwiw this is what i meant by "latin-x" vs, say, "la-tinx" which was the weird pronunciation i had in my head
― gbx, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 22:48 (four years ago) link
Thanks Mordy!
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 22:51 (four years ago) link
xp, you mean like "lah-tinks?"
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 23:12 (four years ago) link
"revealed belief: there is something inherently dorky about podcasts."reveal your deeply true beliefs here
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 23:19 (four years ago) link
You can also vote for Celtic Dick
― sarahell, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 23:25 (four years ago) link
Only Built for Cuban L(at)inx
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 23:40 (four years ago) link
― sarahell, Wednesday, November 6, 2019 6:25 PM bookmarkflaglink
Procreation of the Wicked makes more sense that way
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 23:41 (four years ago) link
posts vmic, but i teach at a HS that is 98% latinx. the kids in my lgbt group are more likely to use/self-identify with it, tho not 100%. most of my students in general self-id as mexican. unless there from central america which there are a few. i tend to use latino in class (i teach government) when we're talking politics.
― i'm not a government man; i'm a government, man. (m bison), Thursday, 7 November 2019 00:43 (four years ago) link
imo it should be pronounced "latinequis" in an extra beto voice
― esempio (crüt), Thursday, 7 November 2019 00:56 (four years ago) link
http://www.varsity.co.uk/images/derived/article-objects/md5-f2cb327808a3561c490399774805e5b9/11032.jpeg
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 7 November 2019 01:12 (four years ago) link
cupcakke, the other week:
In the video she claims that she’s ashamed of the music she’s released, much of which is extremely sexual: “I feel as though I’m corrupting the youth… I want to go to heaven after this, and I don’t want to go to hell. Just seeing all-age kids at the shows, seeing them sing along to ‘hump me’ and ‘fuck me’ and all this shit, it has torn me apart. I’m just not happy. I don’t want to be around no one right now… It’s wrong. And even if it’s OK for y’all, it’s not OK with me… I want to be normal again.” She thanks fans and apologizes for letting them down.
ilx, the other day:
This is so weird. I kept seeing this thread. Didn’t realize [Doja Cat] is the artist my 12 yo is obsessing over.― nathom, Saturday, November 16, 2019 9:27 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglinkyour child has good taste― J0rdan S., Sunday, November 17, 2019 7:43 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
― nathom, Saturday, November 16, 2019 9:27 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink
your child has good taste
― J0rdan S., Sunday, November 17, 2019 7:43 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
idk something just doesn't sit right. idk. someone help work this out. what's good what's bad. is it sexist to be mad about this and not eminem? what if i'm mad about eminem too? what if eminem was 20 years ago? should kids be shielded from this kind of self-expression or is it somehow healthy? etc
― imago, Monday, 18 November 2019 11:59 (four years ago) link
or is it even racist to complain about these artists? are there white equivalents? self-sexualising pop stars who infantilise their content to some degree? i'm not the person to be speaking about this lol, someone please step in
― imago, Monday, 18 November 2019 12:03 (four years ago) link
what are you on about lad
― gyac, Monday, 18 November 2019 12:10 (four years ago) link
thanks i was gonna ask
two points
a) sexuality in popular music is a shocking new developmentb) you kind of have this compulsive urge to contextualize stuff in a way which works for you which is fine if it helps but *shrug* nobody has to engage with everything
― The Man Who Was Thirsty (Noodle Vague), Monday, 18 November 2019 12:14 (four years ago) link
pop artists who self-objectify to an extremely explicit degree and sometimes (or often in doja cat's case - cupcakke doesn't really seem to do it) infantilise this with a wAcKy rANdOm aEStHeTiC that seems purpose-built to get young people interested xp
you're quite right though, i needn't care. but i do, think of the kids etc etc there's a reason i posted it here :/
― imago, Monday, 18 November 2019 12:16 (four years ago) link
like i said, it's a moral panic that's older than popular music itself, you just attune differently as you get older. one of a parent's jobs might be to negotiate the interface between their kids and culture but i don't think it's culture's job to do that.
also consider why this particular "bad messaging" might worry you amongst all the many, many messages that people get from cultural artefacts that we might consider to be even more negative than sexy sexy sex
― The Man Who Was Thirsty (Noodle Vague), Monday, 18 November 2019 12:24 (four years ago) link
also even the youngest person is not just a passive recipient of cultural mind control, hypodermic needle theory is cobblers
― The Man Who Was Thirsty (Noodle Vague), Monday, 18 November 2019 12:26 (four years ago) link
it's more aesthetic distaste than moral panic i think, which i agree makes me a large part of the problem
― imago, Monday, 18 November 2019 12:26 (four years ago) link
sorry this isn't really meant to be the thread to argue with people's uncool conservative beliefs
no no i welcome it
that said i also kind of think kids should have their internet access restricted, and not just for the obvious reasons
― imago, Monday, 18 November 2019 12:27 (four years ago) link
well yeah i don't know if i'd say restricted but people ought to engage with what kids are experiencing and thinking and offer different perspectives and challenge ideas they think are bad, all this with the proviso that hey children will become adults and sooner or later they will do what they want, i'd rather be in dialogue as much as possible
i'm pretty sure that of all the messages i picked up from the culture we swim in since birth "sex is fun" was not the most negative
― The Man Who Was Thirsty (Noodle Vague), Monday, 18 November 2019 12:31 (four years ago) link
I think yeah there is a bit of sexism in here in your response, but as someone who was aware of adult men’s attention since she was 11, it’s not the first thing I’d be worrying about.
― gyac, Monday, 18 November 2019 12:36 (four years ago) link
of course it is necessary to engage with what children are experiencing! but the internet is a place where boundaries and defences can be destroyed very quickly and perhaps not in the most psychologically healthy way. gyac is right to point out that this is by no means limited to the internet. but as i was saying before, children becoming hooked to their phones (and the attendant methods of communication) is perhaps damaging in more subtle, holistic ways regardless
― imago, Monday, 18 November 2019 12:43 (four years ago) link
and fwiw i would kick pewdiepie and his ilk the fuck off youtube if i had the power
― imago, Monday, 18 November 2019 12:44 (four years ago) link
he, the paul brothers &c are a far, far more malign source of cultural evil than doja cat obv, but i was just surprised to see ilxors making a defence of her aesthetic esp in relation to a preteen audience
― imago, Monday, 18 November 2019 12:46 (four years ago) link
sexiness is fine. "moo" is not fine b/c it is irritating af
― 💠 (crüt), Monday, 18 November 2019 12:59 (four years ago) link
maybe that is what it boils down to & i'm conflating aesthetics and morals as i feared
― imago, Monday, 18 November 2019 13:00 (four years ago) link
Moo was a fun joke, her actual songs are much better.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 18 November 2019 13:01 (four years ago) link