i have an overdue rented dvd of tarkovsky's the mirror at the moment am i doomed
― my Sonicare toothbrush (difficult listening hour), Sunday, 28 August 2011 18:33 (twelve years ago) link
in the UK it'd be ___________ mr bongo dvd
http://www.moviemail-online.co.uk/scripts/specials.pl?offer=2459
― HEROIN IS LIKE JAZZ TO ME (history mayne), Sunday, 28 August 2011 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
xposts
Eggers = PavementFranzen = ShinsBen Marcus = BattlesSam Lipsyte = LCD SoundsystemZadie Smith = EchobellyLydia Davis = Joanna NewsomJonathan Lethem = REMDon DeLillo = Radiohead
― Stevie T, Sunday, 28 August 2011 18:35 (twelve years ago) link
well that has successfully made me feel defensive about the equation of bands i like to authors i dont and authors i like to bands i dont and in some cases even authors i like to bands i like so i would say over all that is a pretty successful characterisation
― thomp, Sunday, 28 August 2011 18:37 (twelve years ago) link
where does Jonathan Safran Foer fit into this band scheme
― corey, Sunday, 28 August 2011 18:38 (twelve years ago) link
JSF = Beiruit
― Stevie T, Sunday, 28 August 2011 18:39 (twelve years ago) link
sp.
bulgakov isnt a . author hes a 'cool nerd' author which is p different
zamyatin is probably closer to being a . author
i think this is totally backwards
really? idk i feel like ppl itt arent making a distinction btw like kinda 'alt' av club reading 'pop cult omnivores' who care a lot abt top ten lists and 'quality' and who ime wld be the main consumers of like eggers and bulgakov and 'say anything' and like actual 'hipsters' who are in part defining themselves against those ppl
― Lamp, Sunday, 28 August 2011 18:40 (twelve years ago) link
Stevie, your list reminds me that you told me that CHRONIC CITY was full of references to the CHRONIC TOWN ep, and when I read it I couldn't find a single one.
Maybe I was reading the REM-free edition?
― the pinefox, Sunday, 28 August 2011 18:47 (twelve years ago) link
hipsters should read rebel inc. and city lights and new directions and payback press and nyrb pub imo
― zvookster, Sunday, 28 August 2011 18:49 (twelve years ago) link
confederacy of dunces is like the Pabst Blue Ribbon of books
― brrr-icane aye-rene (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, August 28, 2011 6:10 PM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark
irl loling ty
― *steens furiHOOSly* (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 28 August 2011 18:52 (twelve years ago) link
zvookster otm tho
like if we are discussing the hipster subcategory 'literary hipster' rather than just 'what books does a hispters have'
right - one of the big aspects 'hipster' (at least the ilx use of the term, which isn't necessarily universal) is 'into obscure stuff'. if you took 100 'hipsters', looked at their book/record/whatever collection and made a list of the things they had in common, your end result would be the least 'hipster' list possible. no matter what's on the list, it's 'things people agree on' and (our use of the word) hipster is someone reactionary towards things people agree on.
― iatee, Sunday, 28 August 2011 18:53 (twelve years ago) link
idk i feel like ppl itt arent making a distinction btw like kinda 'alt' av club reading 'pop cult omnivores' who care a lot abt top ten lists and 'quality' and who ime wld be the main consumers of like eggers and bulgakov and 'say anything' and like actual 'hipsters' who are in part defining themselves against those ppl― Lamp, Sunday, August 28, 2011 7:40 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark
― Lamp, Sunday, August 28, 2011 7:40 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark
i think the cultural phenomenon 'HIPSTERS' only exists bc of this confusion. without the mass of footsoldiers no-one would have heard of hipsters. im sure tru hipsters define themselves against the others but that's always the way with these things. except that by now og hipsters are too old to be worrying abt this shit, or so youd think?
― HEROIN IS LIKE JAZZ TO ME (history mayne), Sunday, 28 August 2011 18:55 (twelve years ago) link
what's the difference between a "hipster" and an "alt"?
― sarahel, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:05 (twelve years ago) link
don't think there really is a concept of og hipsters cause
a. by definition nobody can self-identify as a hipster
b. more than that I think nobody really 'is one' in the same way that you could have been a hippie or punk rocker or whatever - it makes more sense as an adjective than a noun.
c. the whole thing is sorta a slow shift starting w/ 80s/90s era attitudes and trends and you can't really draw a line as to when this started. I guess you could arguably use the term to describe someone who was acting like a hipster back before the concept existed.
― iatee, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:10 (twelve years ago) link
lol how did this turn into this again
― *steens furiHOOSly* (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:11 (twelve years ago) link
btw, since like 2006 "hipster" has been a vague catch-all that now includes even neckbearded Muppet-shirt-wearing AV/Club commenter saddos, thus making the convo even harder to have
― brrr-icane aye-rene (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:14 (twelve years ago) link
yeah pinefox is sitting back rubbing his hands together i imagine
by definition nobody can self-identify as a hipster
because no one would or because if you claim to be then really you ain't one?
― thomp, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:16 (twelve years ago) link
xpost. whiney i don't know, i feel like the conversation can happen but it just involves establishing a taxonomy of 'hipster' first and then allotting books to each entry in the taxonomy. which is what we're doing, i mean, it's not curing cancer or anything
both xp
― iatee, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:17 (twelve years ago) link
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWa0dZMHYeE
― zvookster, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:17 (twelve years ago) link
establishing a taxonomy of 'hipster' first and then allotting books to each entry in the taxonomy.
http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1172219146l/150790.jpg
(read this in the store at 14, which probably explains a lot)
― *steens furiHOOSly* (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:18 (twelve years ago) link
― *steens furiHOOSly* (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, August 28, 2011 12:11 PM (6 minutes ago)
truth
― come back to the five and dime remy bean, (remy bean), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:19 (twelve years ago) link
genuine attempt to define hipster?
http://nplusonemag.com/pamphlet-3/
― the pinefox, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:20 (twelve years ago) link
hipster book
or at least
hipster pamphlet
― the pinefox, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:21 (twelve years ago) link
the whole 'define a hipster' game is kind of a moot issue b/c, let's face it, we all generally know one when we see one, but any theory anybody puts up is gonna be poked full of holes by one of the next five posters or whiney, whoever comes first.
― come back to the five and dime remy bean, (remy bean), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:21 (twelve years ago) link
― brrr-icane aye-rene (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, August 28, 2011 12:14 PM (5 minutes ago)
yeah, isn't the concept of the "hipster spectrum" or the "hipster continuum" what spawned hipster puppies?
― sarahel, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:21 (twelve years ago) link
otm
― brrr-icane aye-rene (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:22 (twelve years ago) link
its something you literally can't define on something like a message board because it always means something different based on your own place in the world and the ways you self-identify
― brrr-icane aye-rene (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:23 (twelve years ago) link
I read the n+1 thing and it's like 20% awesome insight hidden inside 80% twaddle
― brrr-icane aye-rene (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:24 (twelve years ago) link
like i can propose some tiered system like:
1. people who are more concerned with and knowledgeable about what is cool than i am = hipsters2. me3. people who are less concerned with and less knowledgeable about what is cool than i am = maybe hipsters? 4. people who are even less concerned and less knowledgeable about what is cool than the category above = normals5. my mom
but it's totally subjective
― sarahel, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:28 (twelve years ago) link
post something abt books or self-ban imo
― zvookster, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:29 (twelve years ago) link
the fact that you can't get one universal definition doesn't mean that it's useless to talk about the various uses of the word! it's an interesting chameleon word and its existence says something* about our time and place in the world.
*not so positive
― iatee, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:31 (twelve years ago) link
anyway, confederacy of dunces. i think we solved this one.
― brrr-icane aye-rene (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:32 (twelve years ago) link
Sarahel, your top 3 categories all appear to be hipsters.
― the pinefox, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:33 (twelve years ago) link
so i like a lot of these books and like comparing to don delillo to radiohead is fucked up
― plax (ico), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:34 (twelve years ago) link
there should be a law
It is quite interesting to think that the original take on this thread was 2003, which seems or is ages ago, and in the n+1 discussion apparently belongs to an earlier era.
So the people posting in 2003 might by default be considered to have some kind of intuitive knowledge that we in 2011 don't.
― the pinefox, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:34 (twelve years ago) link
I like DeLillo like everyone does, but he and Radiohead both 'became more experimental and abstract as we entered the anxious 2000s'?
― the pinefox, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:35 (twelve years ago) link
all right, have at this one:
hipster is a tendency of (mostly) white kids with (mostly) college educations in their (mostly) 20s who identify (mostly) with a few narrow social trends including (but neither exclusively nor limited to) 'indie' and faux-indie and experimental/electronic music, DIY-craftiness and pastiche art, 'dirtbag style' and retro pop-cultural aesthetics and artistic reappropriation, the whole local-organic-sustainable food matrix, have a high degree of internet, videogame, and telephone savvy, and stay up late to go dancing, see live music, or sing karaoke. there are ideas-germs-'memes'-fads that support/challenge/coincide with this lifestyle, and many of them are represented in a particular band of literature: this literature is not intended to span the spectrum of hipster-dom (which, by the way, is a dumb idea), but represent the 'average' taste of an 'average' hipster –– and represent no actual person.
― come back to the five and dime remy bean, (remy bean), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:36 (twelve years ago) link
defining hipsters is like playing that dinner party game where you see if any person is different from the host in more than three categories out of 'religion' 'level of education' 'racial/ethnic identity' 'income bracket'
― come back to the five and dime remy bean, (remy bean), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:37 (twelve years ago) link
oh i forgot 'sexuality' and 'political party'
― come back to the five and dime remy bean, (remy bean), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:38 (twelve years ago) link
So, Vonnegut, Pynchon and DFW.
― brrr-icane aye-rene (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:38 (twelve years ago) link
sounds like a swell party!
don't disagree with your definition.
― the pinefox, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:39 (twelve years ago) link
Nah, comparing Pynchon and Vonnegut to bands that have only been around less than a decade isn't really apt
― sarahel, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:40 (twelve years ago) link
― brrr-icane aye-rene (Whiney G. Weingarten),
I'd argue against Pynchon on the ground that a lot fewer people read him than own him, but maybe I'm being defensive b/c he's the only one on the list I really like? As I said upthread I'd add 'Confederacy of Dunces/Master and Margherita/Perks of Being a Wallflower to the list, but Vonnegut and DFW would be good inclusions too.
― come back to the five and dime remy bean, (remy bean), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:42 (twelve years ago) link
Vonnegut = Merle HaggardPynchon = Zappa
Nah, comparing Pynchon and Vonnegut to bands that have only been around less than a decade isn't really apt― sarahel, Sunday, August 28, 2011 3:40 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― sarahel, Sunday, August 28, 2011 3:40 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Fine, they're like Gang Of Four and R Stevie Moore.
― brrr-icane aye-rene (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:43 (twelve years ago) link
I'd argue against Pynchon on the ground that a lot fewer people read him than own him
this is about "hipsters" right? Does actually reading the book matter so much as owning it?
― sarahel, Sunday, 28 August 2011 19:43 (twelve years ago) link