Fwiw I dont think its really fair to lump pohl in with reactionary rightwing nutjobs like heinlein and campbell. Pohl was old school, certainly from a formal and historical perspective, but he was not conservative.
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 3 January 2015 18:28 (nine years ago) link
Xps
That was exactly I was thinking. In addition to misspelling his name.
Did you read the earlier Silverberg collections?
― Can We Be Shown Worldbuilders + Mike Harrison? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 3 January 2015 18:35 (nine years ago) link
I got 3 from the library awhile ago, altho I already had a bunch of the stories in that one. Might work my way backwards if the library has them all (these are not cheap at $40 a pop, but I sprang for 4 cuz I've wanted it for a long time and I love this period of his writing)
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 3 January 2015 19:31 (nine years ago) link
Please don't tell me you like "Sailing To Byzantium."
― Can We Be Shown Worldbuilders + Mike Harrison? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 3 January 2015 19:48 (nine years ago) link
That's post-comeback so of course not. 4 only goes up to his "sabbatical"
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 3 January 2015 19:52 (nine years ago) link
I did read a bunch of those majipoor books in high school. Dont remember a thing about them, no desire to revisit
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 3 January 2015 19:53 (nine years ago) link
why are they so bad and hated?
at the end, one of the characters is (temporarily!) given god-like powers to magically fix all the problems that built up over 3000 pages
i am comfortable with a fair bit of ridiculousness in my sf, but come on
― mookieproof, Saturday, 3 January 2015 22:01 (nine years ago) link
ah ok. even tho i feel like i am inured to bullshit resolutions to long ass books and series by this point, knowing ahead of time has got to be a dealbreaker.
― Roberto Spiralli, Saturday, 3 January 2015 22:12 (nine years ago) link
How far did you guys get in Riverworld?
― Can We Be Shown Worldbuilders + Mike Harrison? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 3 January 2015 22:14 (nine years ago) link
The first four. I've been thinking about going back and rereading those.
― the magnetic pope has sparked (WilliamC), Saturday, 3 January 2015 22:36 (nine years ago) link
I never got to the end. Read the first two and part of the third. Plus the original story with Tom Mix.
― Can We Be Shown Worldbuilders + Mike Harrison? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 3 January 2015 22:39 (nine years ago) link
David Langford @ansiblemagMourning my mother Kit Langford and struggling (with brother Jon) with endless paperwork and funeral preparations. http://kit.ansible.uk/ So the Jan. issue of Ansible may take a while,but Dec. issue is especially rich, esp.toward end hee:http://news.ansible.uk/a329.html
― dow, Saturday, 3 January 2015 22:40 (nine years ago) link
Haven't read any of this yet but: http://www.infinitematrix.net/stories/swanwick/sleep_of_reason.html
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 4 January 2015 15:22 (nine years ago) link
Will probably end up getting that Silverberg Vol 4. Meanwhile working through Volume 2, which seems to have the most acknowledged and anthologized stories, such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj6gp8i_aQo
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 4 January 2015 18:36 (nine years ago) link
Hey check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfmp6DviZEI
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 4 January 2015 18:37 (nine years ago) link
Full list here: http://otrarchive.blogspot.com/2011/02/sci-fi-radio-npr.html
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 4 January 2015 18:39 (nine years ago) link
Also here: https://archive.org/details/Sci-fiRadio
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 4 January 2015 18:40 (nine years ago) link
Just listened to "Vintage Season." The character of the protagonist landlord is a little amped up, but basically faithful to the text and well done.
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 4 January 2015 19:32 (nine years ago) link
(Still annoyed at the author of that Moorcock article calling the author of "The Tunnel Under The World" and The Space Merchants a Campbell disciple)
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 4 January 2015 19:33 (nine years ago) link
I looked up the author of that article and he wrote a book about occult themes in music, looked interesting, especially that I didn't know there was much hiphop with occult themes.
I don't know a whole lot about that old school vs new wave thing other than what Moorcock has said. But it doesn't seem like a simple divide where everyone chosen sides, because so many of these authors liked each other (like Moorcock loves Poul Anderson, Ellison loved most of the big old school writers). Reminds me a little bit of the way people oversimplify all rock music before punk and that whole relationship sometimes.
Wonder how Moorcock feels about still being called post-Tolkien or anti-Tolkien, sometimes even on his books. I wouldn't want to constantly be associated with an author I didn't care for even if the association was rejection/rebellion against them.
I wonder if the Pre-Raphaelites were happy with that name?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 4 January 2015 20:52 (nine years ago) link
Elric is much more obviously an anti-Conan. I have little doubt that moorcock is still reviled byvtolkein's basic conservatism, politically speakinf.
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 4 January 2015 20:59 (nine years ago) link
Fucking phone
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 4 January 2015 21:00 (nine years ago) link
New year, new thread so will have another go at this: Basically, as editor of Astounding (later Analog) Campbell and his favorite writers Heinlein and Asimov cleaned up the and professionalized the genre, distancing it from its pulpy, Gernsbackian origins, creating well-constructed stories about problem solving engineers, written in a clear, efficient, logical if often inelegant or unadventurous style. The New Wave positioned themselves in opposition to this dominant form of sf. However this was somewhat of a simplification, since some of the suppressed elements of less straight-jawed, weird or more expressionistic or simpler better writing had already survived in the pulpier mags such as Planet Stories, or in the two main rival publications of Astounding, Horace Gold's (w/ help from Fred Pohl) Galaxy, which was way more welcoming of satirical material, a safe haven for such stuff in the Red Scare 50s, and Tony Boucher's Fantasy & Science Fiction, which placed a much higher premium on prose quality, or even through some of Campbell's other writers- "Vintage Season" first appeared in Astounding.
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 4 January 2015 21:23 (nine years ago) link
I was surprised that Unknown was another Campbell magazine, since it has a really great reputation for some of the best fantasy coming out at the time and seems to be similar to Weird Tales.
In Wizardry And Wild Romance, Moorcock mostly recommended RE Howard but taken issue with his imitators and the writers who written Conan books later on. Also that a lot of Howard's unfinished work got published and it spoiled his reputation to some extent. But I've heard some of his best work was posthumous stories that he might have polished up a bit more if he had lived.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 5 January 2015 02:12 (nine years ago) link
I dont think Moorcock had anything against Howard per se, just that Elric is a pretty obvious inversion of Conan (similar to how Jerry Cornelius is an inversion of James Bond, altho in that case I imagine Moorcock really did have serious issues w Flwming and his ridiculous sexism, racism, imperialism etc.) I only brought up the Conan comparisob cuz Tolkien was not really referenced in the Elric books, I think its a mistake to categorize them as a reaction or response to LOTR.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 5 January 2015 03:05 (nine years ago) link
They chose it themselves!
― ledge, Monday, 5 January 2015 08:41 (nine years ago) link
Browsing through the Borderlands stacks I was kinda bummed by how uninterested I am in so much of the modern sci-fi market - just tons of derivative looking steampunk and cyberpunk stuff, smart aleck-y dystopianism. I am judging by covers, blurbs, and bios here tbf. It bums me out that my favorite new guys just don't write that much, and the market appears to be otherwise dominated by interminable series' of recycled ideas. Of course if anyone's been totally blown away by some recently emerging writers I'm all ears...
― Οὖτις, Monday, 5 January 2015 16:43 (nine years ago) link
Do you read the "Year's Best" type anthologies?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 5 January 2015 17:01 (nine years ago) link
not habitually
― Οὖτις, Monday, 5 January 2015 17:14 (nine years ago) link
Seems to me that is the last thing you want to read if you don't like current stuff.
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 5 January 2015 18:25 (nine years ago) link
as well documented here, my favorite recent/newish dudes are Jon Armstrong and Charles Yu, but both seem like outliers and neither are particularly prolific. Post-90s I seem to be drawn to the types of guys who write a couple books and then disappear (see also: Matthew Derby). Steve Aylett I like but can only take in limited doses. Jeff Noon appears to have given up on publishing novels in the US (and there was a bit of a decline in quality post-Automated Alice anyway).
― Οὖτις, Monday, 5 January 2015 18:38 (nine years ago) link
this is supposed to be great!
http://www.amazon.com/Twenty-First-Century-Science-Fiction-Hartwell/dp/0765326000
― scott seward, Monday, 5 January 2015 19:38 (nine years ago) link
Still working through the Twentieth Century one!
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 5 January 2015 19:40 (nine years ago) link
the names I do recognize (Doctorow, Scalzi, Bacigalupi) don't fill me with confidence but the rest is all unfamiliar to me so will see if I can get that at the library
― Οὖτις, Monday, 5 January 2015 20:14 (nine years ago) link
I think Aliette de Bodard and E. Lily Yu are both doing interesting things in short forms, but I don't really keep up with SF all that well.
― one way street, Monday, 5 January 2015 20:26 (nine years ago) link
Did you try Ted Chiang yet?
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 5 January 2015 20:30 (nine years ago) link
not yet - so many short stories/novelettes, not sure about the easiest way to acquire a lot of them
― Οὖτις, Monday, 5 January 2015 20:54 (nine years ago) link
used to be some you could read free online.
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 5 January 2015 20:55 (nine years ago) link
library has one of his books, most of his other stuff seems to be in random anthologies...?
― Οὖτις, Monday, 5 January 2015 20:56 (nine years ago) link
Doesn't he only have one book so far?
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 5 January 2015 20:59 (nine years ago) link
I guess? I can't really tell from the wikipedia entry, which just lists titles and not formats
― Οὖτις, Monday, 5 January 2015 21:02 (nine years ago) link
Stories of Your Life and Others. Give it a try. Even if you don't like it, plenty of others have read it so you will be able to have a meaningful discussion, at least in theory.
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 5 January 2015 21:05 (nine years ago) link
library has The Lifecycle of Software Objects but looks like it would be awhile before I can get it
― Οὖτις, Monday, 5 January 2015 21:07 (nine years ago) link
That is a novella. I read it online. Believe you can too: http://subterraneanpress.com/magazine/fall_2010/fiction_the_lifecycle_of_software_objects_by_ted_chiang
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 5 January 2015 21:11 (nine years ago) link
ah cool thx
― Οὖτις, Monday, 5 January 2015 21:19 (nine years ago) link
You can also find The Merchant and the Alchemist's Gate somewhere, it is a thing of beauty.
― ledge, Monday, 5 January 2015 22:41 (nine years ago) link
Read that in one of those F&SF anthologies which had other good stuff iirc
― Dedlock Holiday (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 6 January 2015 01:50 (nine years ago) link
For a while I thought these Ramble House books were genuine but they have to be parodies a bit similar to Steve Aylett. Makes me wonder how much else of their catalogue is pastiche by new writers under a pseudonym.
http://www.ramblehouse.com/kats.htmhttp://www.ramblehouse.com/marceaucase.htmhttp://www.ramblehouse.com/owlofdarkness.htmhttp://www.ramblehouse.com/twostrangeladies.htmhttp://www.ramblehouse.com/woodenspectacles.htm
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 6 January 2015 19:12 (nine years ago) link
There's a Jacques Sternberg story called Univers Zero. I guess that's where the band got their name?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 7 January 2015 02:23 (nine years ago) link