Who will be the next American to win the Nobel Prize for Literature?

Yeah, because he was only relevant fifty years ago, he has impacted artists for a longer period of time. Yeah.

don't think an award for literature is for songwriters. don't think music is poetry or literary. it belittles both music and literature to claim otherwise.

like if we can give it to dylan why not give it to moritz von oswald

i don't expect they'll be giving music awards to halldor laxness or elias canetti anytime soon either. this is little more than encroachment of a famous figure into a less celebrated medium, and encroachment of a more popular medium into the territory of a less popular one.

If you don't think the nobel is for canonical artists idk

and i do think it is, but if you look back at the literary figures who've won it, they're not necessarily famous celebrity writers.

It's an honorary Nobel prize like giving idk Donald Sutherland a politics degree from trinity cos you liked his cameo in jfk

this is all territorial pissing

I would award Donald Sutherland a Nobel for his cameo on JFK.

"the more i read about this the more it's starting to annoy me, not least because it's caused a deluged of literary people writing about music, specifically about dylan, and they all have terrible music taste, boring hackneyed ideas, and are very happy to reduce music to being somehow the same as literature, or to amalgamate great art into some great man theory."

dude, yeah, avoid all hornby-esque writing about dylan. just pretend it doesn't exist. plus, novelists and poets are the most cringeworthy people on earth when they write about music. it's not their fault. they have other strengths.

That's is in general very true although I feel like I have come across a rare exception every once in a while.

VOTE SWIFT IN '36

scott is otm, I find it much easier to think of novelists who have been absolutely horrible writing about music (Salman Rushdie and Don DeLillo spring to mind) than the opposite

How many lyrics has Dylan actually written? 36 albums, some instrumental songs, in periods he didn't write the lyrics himself. It's not even that big of an oeuvre. And how many of them are actually good and not 'Wiggle Wiggle'?

lol are you for real

do you want a word count or something

agree this prize should go to the writer with the biggest oeuvre

How many lyrics has Dylan actually written? 36 albums, some instrumental songs, in periods he didn't write the lyrics himself. It's not even that big of an oeuvre. And how many of them are actually good and not 'Wiggle Wiggle'?

― Frederik B, Friday, October 14, 2016

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Straitjacket-rear.jpg

srsly Fredrik you sound like a Benghazi conspiracist.

Last time I checked, I liked the way Elizabeth Hand wrote about music or used musical subcultures, although I am worried one of her latest two books may change that. As far as I know no other ilx0r has read anything by her so I guess I am safe to say anything I want. I also don't mind discussion of musical matters when it appears in anything by M. John Harrison.

that reminds me that Moorcock is p good writing about music (the Hawkwind book is bad for other reasons - but he's always fun when writing about SONIC ATTACKS or whatever)

Scott or except also avoid all Dylan and also everyone is cringeworthy who writes about music

Or=otm

"Wiggle Wiggle" is obv Dylan's upping his word-count through repetition in attempt to win prolific Nobel

How many lyrics has Dylan actually written? 36 albums, some instrumental songs, in periods he didn't write the lyrics himself. It's not even that big of an oeuvre. And how many of them are actually good and not 'Wiggle Wiggle'?

- Frederik B

Pulapaka Susheela Mohan was robbed

even greil's thing on dylan in the NYT yesterday wasn't great and i have definitely heard him be great on dylan.

trying to sell me on that old roman kings song so i go listen to it and read the lyrics and oof....no thanks.

I'm completely serious, and I did not imply that the prize should go to the one with the biggest oeuvre, that's just straw man bullshit discussing. He has definitely written more than Inger Christensen, for instance, who was a frontrunner for several years, and who should have won the nobel prize for the single sonnet corona Butterfly Valley. But my problem is that so few people are actually taking his writings seriously as writings, and defending the nobel on the basis of what he has written. So I ask, how much has he written anyway? And what of that is the basis for the nobel? How big is the book of Dylan's lyrics? Because 36 albums sound like a lot, but with ca 10 lyrics per album, it's really not that much.

Citing Dylan's sillier lyrics such as 'Wiggle Wiggle' in this context is about as pointless as making fun of T.S. Eliot's Nobel prize by citing his book of light verse about cats.

"I'm completely serious"

Sadly you indeed seem to be.

How big is the book of Dylan's lyrics? Because 36 albums sound like a lot, but with ca 10 lyrics per album

lol don't worry this is exactly the insane quantitative argument we all assumed you were making

Has this been posted here? Best takedown I've read yet: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/10/nobel-prize-literature-long-last-awarded-complete-idiot/

No it's not, wins. I'm saying it's tough to get a handle on what Dylan has done, not that quantity trumps quality. The Nobel committee was vague just citing new 'poetic expressions'. What earned Dylan the nobel?

I think Dylan's total lyrical and literary output is somewhat comparable in size to that of Q. Horatius Flaccus (aka 'Horace'), who is generally considered to be a noteworthy writer.

I don't give a shit about this debate but that is not a good takedown.

What earned Dylan the nobel?

being a good writer

If you want an argument that's based on quantitative analysis, how about this one: Dylan's worldwide impact on several generations of not just songwriters, but literary artists of all types, dwarfs that most people who could have the prize yesterday.

SEVERAL generations. ALL types. Someone get the paddy wagon!!!

And there are quite a few good writers who don't have a nobel...

Are there really? I don't see any evidence for that

Good Christ, Frederik, is this your elaborate scheme to try and get us against Dylan winning this defending him anyway?

It's quite undeniable he had a major influence with his lyrics in the 60s, perhaps for a whole generation. What he has done for me lately is mostly annoying, and handing baby boomers a get out of jail card to ramble on about how today's music sucks and doesn't care because DYLAN. And *still* I will acknowledge his lyrics had a profound effect on loads of people. Kudos to him.

They just shouldn't have handed him the Nobel for lit. Not because of the size of his oeuvre, but because he's a song writer, not a book writer.

Best takedown I've read yet

The opening, which addresses the natural unity of poetry and music, is quite good, but as soon as it addresses Bob Dylan's work directly it devolves into the worst sort of challopy nonsense.

Hey Fred, Dylan also wrote a couple of books so you can add the pages of those into the total

Aimless, I agree, didn't say it's great but he touches on what vexes me about this. Shame he goes off the rails in the end.

What earned Dylan the nobel?

well I'm not the guy to explain that, I'm not really familiar with his stuff. Anyone else know what's worth checking out?

being a good writer

he isn't a writer. not of literature. it's easy to say "awards mean nothing" and this decision is obviously symptomatic of most of the traits that prompt that view, but the truth is the nobel prize for literature tends to award lesser known writers. even in its own world it doesn't pander. that's why this is so pathetic. along with the fact it justifies the opinions of a bunch of people whose view of both music and literature is pathetically narrow.

I'm pretty sure if we include his books the quality goes way down. The committee explicitly said he got it for his songwriting, so I'm asking how many song lyrics he has written.

And I dislike the influence argument, which also is quantitative. Yeah, he influenced a lot of people, so has a lot of writers. How many across the arab world find influence in Adonis? The nobel has gone to ONE black African (and four white Africans, shamefully), how many generations of influence has been neglected? Dylan inspired a lot because he wrote in English and was a key part of boomer culture. If it was always based on the breadth of influence the prize would be even more western-centric than it already is.

"and who should have won the nobel prize for the single sonnet corona Butterfly Valley"

http://img.mota.ru/upload/wallpapers/source/2013/06/18/16/00/36301/JJmKgdok0S.jpg

and what should have won the nobel prize

The collected poems of Tomas Tranströmer runs 295 pages, and though I've only read one of his collection, I'm fully supportive of his nobel, though it's probably quantitatively less than Dylan's lyrics. Qualitatively I got way more out of the collection I read than I've ever gotten out of any Dylan lyric.

https://m.popkey.co/395efa/WxRaK.gif

I remember one of my English tutors very pointedly had a book of Dylan lyrics sitting on his shelf in a prominent place
Even at the age of 18 I could tell he was trying too hard.