Truth in Literature

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Is it possible for a writer to tell the truth in literature? Is it possible for a writer to lie in their literature? Can you give examples of either?

― SRH (Skrik), Monday, 12 April 2004 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

"The" truth?

― Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 12 April 2004 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Your call.

― SRH (Skrik), Monday, 12 April 2004 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

It's a good question. Don't knock it.

In truth, I think that yes, it is possible to tell truth in literature. I think lots of literary works do it. It's just a matter of expanding, refreshing and altering some definitions and notions of Truth.

The bad thing to do, then, is to become complacent about the idea -- to take it for granted that literature can tell truth - when the spirit of this question is, I think, much nearer the knuckle. The bone. The home. The truth.

― the truefox, Monday, 12 April 2004 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I could write upwards of a thousand words about my breakfast eggs - describe their smell, look, texture, the small acts and observations involved in cooking, eating, cleaning up, and so forth. I could connect these quanta to memories and feelings, bring in ethical considerations, indulge in my imaginings about the hen who laid them, or even do a song and dance on the ineffable Zen-like grace of the world with breakfast eggs as my starting point.

Done well, there might even be much truth in what I wrote. But "the" truth is beyond telling and beyond words. For words to tell "the" truth would be like a tongue that could taste itself or a child giving birth to its mother.

― Aimless (Aimless), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 03:41 (twenty-two years ago)

"or a child giving birth to its mother."

Hey, I did that -- don't knock it!

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 03:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I think 'the' may be a red herring -- just focus on the white eggs?

― the eggfox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 07:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Fiction is about fantasy, and fantasy is the truth state of our subjective experience.

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

The truth is only what you perceive. If there is 'another truth' ('the' truth), it is beyond the boundaries of reasonable thought and pointless to consider.

I don't believe in 'the' truth. I'm not so sure this is a good question. But questions, in general, are good, so it's OK.

― Ally C (Ally C), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

An alternative, possibly interesting, version of this question is "what does literature know... and how is literary knowledge different to literal knowledge?"

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Is it possible for a writer to tell the truth in literature? Is it possible for a writer to lie in their literature? Can you give examples of either?

...mmhmm ...I don’t know if the lie or the truth represents an important impediment for a good literature writer. The "truthfulness" is not "truth" as "literary lie" is not "real lie".
So, in literature, telling the lie is the same as telling the truth.
But, maybe I’m wrong ...or... maybe not.

― miK, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 12:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I want to get round to what the novel might know, later, if I can. But first, before that, I want to think a little about the kinds of knowing that James might be doing. We might want to say - we might have to say - that there are more than one. There might be more than ten, but we'll have to stop somewhere.

― the woodfox, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

My take is that this is one of the key functions of 'Art': to illuminate 'truth' or 'truths' as the author sees them. As far as examples go -- every work that you read can be taken as a little insight into the mind of the author, wherein lies his, or her, notion of truth.

― Docpacey (docpacey), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

It’s not truth that amuses us in literature, but skilfully told lies.

― George Horatio Peters, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I do believe that many books are intended to tell "the truth" about the human condition just by purely existing and trying to put into words what is inside people's heads, or in their frying pan, in the case of the above eggs.
Pinefox and Jerry have me thinking, especially of examples, and I also believe that there are books that deliberately lie, the unreliable narrator in Midnight's Children being an prime example of this, in order to tell the truth, because they play tricks on the reader to make us see that everyone has their own version of the story, and that historical truth ("literal knowledge") may not always add up to personal perception. So I guess the other question is how, do we decide that "fact" is any different than "fiction?"

― Jocelyn, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

That's true.

How about Lolita and Pale Fire? Among the most significant Unreliable Narrators of the C20; do they offer any road to truth, or just a highway to Vermont?

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

It's kinda creepy that Pale Fire is on my desk right now, waiting to be read...
Do you think that the unreliable narrator has become a bit of a cliche?
I've read several comments is this vein recently in reviews, and was wondering what people find to be other effective ways to explore deliberate truth-twisting? The film Rashomon springs to mind, but it's easier to go that route in movies, where you have three very different visual interpretations, rather than having to create seperate voices as an author.

― Jocelyn, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

O, no: I have spoiled Pale Fire for you.

He's not really unreliable, OK?

― the bluefox, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

It's okay...I figured that the man was a bit fishy after reading the prologue.
You can always buy me a (virtual) drink though, if you feel really guilty:)

― Jocelyn, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Nothing wrong with an unreliable narrator - still a good tool in the writer's kit. I think Jocelyn is on the same track as my beliefs - I think I can learn more about how computers work or quantum physics from non-fiction, but I think an awful lot of my ideas and understanding (whether they are true or not is very hard to address) about how people feel and think come from prose fiction. I value this very highly.

'What is truth?' is a hard enough question to answer, before we restrict it to the more difficult truth in fiction/literature.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

That's thrue what that man's afther sayin'.

― Rosie Redmond, Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:13 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe the truth is fiction. Witness the current trend towards memoir. Great writers should thrill and contain us and take us to the very edge of our ....and then bring us home again. And I don't give a shit which genre the writer is using. I just like to be thrilled. And I don't like rollercoasters. OK? Oh, for you Brits. It's called a gigantic roundabout.

― aimurchie (aimurchie), Friday, 16 April 2004 04:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I am confused by your last bit. Are you under the impression that 'roundabout' is British for rollercoaster?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 16 April 2004 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I was drunk. Roundabout is when the cars go all nuts in the same direction. Rollercoasters are big things that go up and down in an alarming fashion. I was Drunk and thought I was being cool. But thanks for pointing it out.

― aimurchie (aimurchie), Monday, 19 April 2004 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that literature can tell the truth. From reading about something you have never experienced you can know what it is like and recognise it when it happens. I guess the most trite example is falling in love: it's much like they say in the books. This also works the other way: when reading you can come across a paragraph or book which exactly portrays something you have experienced but never been able to articulate.

I don't think literature can lie because this is about the reader recognising something that hits the mark. If it doesn't you won't recognise it or be taken in by it. Maybe this has happened to other readers though.

― isadora (isadora), Monday, 19 April 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Literature tells the truth by lying. If you just keep on lying, in the end something true will come out of it.

― Ingolfur Gislason (kreator), Monday, 19 April 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Does this mean I can just lie around in bed? It would be my most preferred mode.

― aimurchie (aimurchie), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't believe that there can be an " absolute truth" in literature. A subject is written about only from the authors perspective, and when we read that piece of literature, we interact with it from our own perspective.
Actually I think I am confused, and possibly should go and have a lie down.

― kath (kath), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

The truth of the art is the lie

― Paola & Cristy, Tuesday, 20 April 2004 08:19 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

I feel that literature does give insight into thoughts and feelings which we may or may not have already experienced and that each piece of literature has some kernel of truth whether or not we can immediately see it.
But I have one question, does literature tell "the truth" any better than any other art form?

― Josh McColister, Sunday, 16 April 2006 17:08 (twenty years ago)

Well, if you exclude colors from "the truth". Oh, and smells, too. Sadly, words just don't do much justice to these experiences. And we can't forget music. Pretty hard to capture in words.

Heck. Let's just say that words have a beauty all their own, just as numbers do. Or stones.

― Aimless (Aimless), Sunday, 16 April 2006 18:02 (twenty years ago)

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