Your literary prejudices

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I am prejudiced against Ayn Rand readers. Not so much because of the objectivist philosophy, which I know little about, but because of the terrible, terrible writing, which people seem to disregard because she's so deep or something.

Also, somewhat more shamefully, I realized I am prejudiced against Chuck Palahniuk (sp?) readers, despite never having read any of his books. I think it's because I'm aware of his characters' general misanthropy, and I worry that his readers identify with these attitudes a little too much. But I'm aware that this maybe a totally unfounded prejudice.

n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 17 September 2004 14:28 (twenty-one years ago)

i have those same prejudices, except the ayn rand thing comes more from the fact that i find her philosophy offensive and the palahniuk thing from the fact that i think he's a crappy writer who appeals to armchair rebels. sorry if i offend any palahniuk fans.. prejudices are supposed to be kind of irrational, right?

lauren (laurenp), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Harry bloody Potter fans (over the age of 15).

Mog, Friday, 17 September 2004 15:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I dislike palahniuk because he's a purveyor of a difft. brand of american exceptionalism than the pinefox was going on about on the greil marcus thread but one similarly difficult to articulate or pin down. he's symptomatic.

cºzen (Cozen), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

i couldn't agree more about ayn rand. her writing is crap and so is her philosophy. i have also found her writing, most notably "fountainhead" to be quite sexist and anti-woman.

Emilymv (Emilymv), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Bridget Jones-readers. Marian Keynes lovers. Palahniuk and DAve Eggers worshippers. People who maintain that Paul Auster & Douglas Coupland are the best thing since sliced bread.

Tinka, Friday, 17 September 2004 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't have anything against the Bridget Jones/Marian Keyes readers (my gf is one), because, at least in the ones that I've met, there's no pretension that it's "literature." They just treat it as something fun to read. I don't have any problems with that. But hey, each to their own prejudices.

n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

david foster wallace. reminds me of mid-late 90s glut of bloated weird pomo/rugged individualist hybrid novels and ppl who think they're really clever.

lauren (laurenp), Friday, 17 September 2004 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I have a thing about covers and book sizes : /

cºzen (Cozen), Friday, 17 September 2004 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm thoroughly shocked when someone I like turns out to be into Eggers. They're usually artists in other media who sort of try to read the occasional "I heard this was philosophical and deep!" book in order to be well-rounded, so I try to go easy on em, but there's nothing I can do about the expression of disappointment and horror that crosses my face.

Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Friday, 17 September 2004 22:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I take great offence when people start assuming I know enough about Ayn Rand and Somebody Eggers to form an opinion. I like to show how offended I am by going into cafés, putting on a shocked face, and saying, "oooh!" before rushing out again.

My prejudices extend to the readers of chic-klit, and any snob who looks down their collective conk at readers of popular literature (I don't do that, you know, even though I don't read much of that stuff)

SRH (Skrik), Saturday, 18 September 2004 11:04 (twenty-one years ago)

David Sedaris. I don't think he's all that funny or all that good. He is sort of amusing at times. I haven't read all his stuff though. What do you think is his best?

pepektheassassin (pepektheassassin), Saturday, 18 September 2004 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

naked is my favorite. barrel fever has great moments but a lot of crap, and me talk pretty one day is too cute. don't know about the newest one.

lauren (laurenp), Saturday, 18 September 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Lauren has read a lot of books.

I met an Ayn Rand fan the other day! I didn't know she was bad.

the bellefox, Saturday, 18 September 2004 15:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I liked Ayn Rand in high school cuz I thought I was a misunderstood genius. Then I:

1) Found out I wasn't a genius.

2) Found out that most people are misunderstood.

3) Grew up.

4) Got over myself.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

David Sedaris. I don't think he's all that funny or all that good. He is sort of amusing at times. I haven't read all his stuff though. What do you think is his best?

I think Sedaris' two funniest are "Santaland Diaries" and his essay "Me Talk Pretty One Day." Some of his others are kinda hit and miss but these two will make me laugh every time. "He nice, the Jesus."

SJ Lefty, Saturday, 18 September 2004 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

It's all about hearing him read it. It's very, very pleasant, and sometimes that's enough!

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 19 September 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Will I be pilloried if I go after Dan Brown fans? There was a point at the beginning of this year when people would ask me if I had read "The Da Vinci Code," speaking of it as if was the lost Gospel. I broke down, read it, and found it formulaic garbage -- and if fans of the book bothered to read something else they might realize this!

Also, reading the comments about Ayn Rand here reminds me of that "South Park" episode where the formerly illiterate Officer Barbrady is given a copy of "Atlas Shrugged." After finishing it, he announces that he's sorry he ever learned how to read. Now I can't listen to someone praise her work without thinking of that and laughing.

Mark Klobas, Sunday, 19 September 2004 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

The latest David Sedaris suffers from David getting maudlin in middle age. I think Naked is his best also. And you never read them the same way after hearing him read them. One of my literary prejudices is the perfectly predictable backlash against whomever is crowned popular, whether that be Brown, Eggers, Wallace or Sedaris. Automatically going against the crowd is just as aesthetically bankrupt as automatically going with it. Sadly, I am occasionally guilty of this.

Rabin the Cat (Rabin the Cat), Monday, 20 September 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I am also guilty of this - I perused the best seller list today and noted with disgust Dan Brown 1 & 2 yet again. I fear I also have a prejudice against young(?) trendy writers I'm thinking Zadie Smith and Irving Welsh. Surely going against the crowd has a noble heritage.

sandy mc, Monday, 20 September 2004 08:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm prejudiced against people who claim to have read all the great classics in kindergarten.
Fred: I'm reading Don Quixote!
Asshole: Huh! I read it when I was six!
Fred: Then why are you full of shit?

Fred (Fred), Monday, 20 September 2004 10:11 (twenty-one years ago)

My prejudices extend to the readers of chic-klit, and any snob who looks down their collective conk at readers of popular literature

Mmm. Nice. So you hate yourself then?

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 20 September 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, anyone my age (30) who's still prejudiced toward the womyn's lit that was all over the English departments (the one I was stuck with anyway) in my college years strikes me as, uh, extremely prejudiceworthy. I want to grab them and go "GOOD GOD, ARE YOU DETERMINED TO SPEND THE REST OF YOUR LIFE CLINGING TO THE SAME DAMN OPINIONS YOU FORMED WHEN YOU WERE EIGHTEEN??? You sad sack!"

Come to think of it, this kind of goes for anyone whose literary prejudices are the same throughout life.

Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Monday, 20 September 2004 23:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm prejudiced against books that are too thin, and Italian lit. in general.

misshajim (strand), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 06:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm prejudiced against books that are too thin

Oh yeah, I have this too, and it's a really bad prejudice. I will buy a thick book over a thin book any day, because I'm worried a thin book will be over too soon and I won't get my money's worth, but I miss a lot of good books that way and thick books, if they're boring, can just go on forever.

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I have the opposite feeling. I rarely buy thick books because it's a bigger risk if it ends up sucking. Thin books I can at least finish quickly.

I'm weirdly prejudiced against literary authors who incorporate genre themes in their work as a way of spicing it up. Irritating.

selfnoise, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

n/a: Damn, busted again.

SRH (Skrik), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 19:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm weirdly prejudiced against literary authors who incorporate genre themes in their work as a way of spicing it up. Irritating.


-- selfnoise (mgorill...), September 21st, 2004 2:59 PM.


I'm weirdly predjudiced against people who think there's some kind of meaningful disctinction between 'genre fiction' and 'literary fiction'. Besides, your average lit-wank, stream-of-conciousness 'serious' novel would be greatly spiced up by the appearence of a gangster or (better yet) a spaceship halfway through.

Wooden (Wooden), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Ok, that was poorly worded. What I meant was: I don't like snooty "literary" authors slumming in genre fiction as a way of being "ironic", or something. I do enjoy quality "genre" fiction, as well as fantastic fiction that transcends genre.

And no, it wouldn't be spiced up. It would just be obnoxious to a further degree.

selfnoise, Wednesday, 22 September 2004 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, you mean like Margaret Atwood or something. Alright, I'm with you.

Wooden (Wooden), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Is Margaret Atwood good or bad? I liked The Handmaiden's Tale, which is the only one of hers I have read. (Please don't hate me now.)

SRH (Skrik), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I've only read The Handmaid's Tale which I didn't like at all. I read a lot of sci-fi, and I thought the world in which it took place was quite poorly-concieved, and the (rather dull) story came second to the political agenda. For a much subtler science-fictional examination of gender politics, see Ursula Le Guin's 'The Left Hand of Darkness.'

I don't hate you!

Wooden (Wooden), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Margaret Atwood is really really good, if you like solipsistic, neurotic main characters. search 'Life Before Man', 'Oryx and Crake'(more sci-fi, but quite a different dystopia than Handmaid's Tale), and 'Surfacing', plus her short story collections 'Wilderness Tips' and 'Dancing Girls'. Pass over 'The Edible Woman'; it's a bit obvious today, and as a result slightly interminable.

'Wilderness Tips' is very dark; it's a remarkable collection.

derrick (derrick), Thursday, 23 September 2004 04:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I appreciated The Blind Assassin to be honest, whereas I found Lady Oracle trecherous...
Another thing I'm prejudiced about is the distinction between academic literature and fiction, so that if you're reading Vonnegut here in Italy, people will say, "oh you like reading easy contemporary stuff".
I hate that!

misshajim (strand), Thursday, 23 September 2004 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

i liked atwood's cat's eye, although it's been ages since i read it. the earlier part was my favorite - an incredibly vivid rendering of the odd, despotic, claustrophobic world of young girls.

lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 23 September 2004 15:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Cat's Eye and The Robber Bride are her best books, when she delves into the relationship of women in cliques and relationships, and stays away from the strange sci-fi stuff.

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 23 September 2004 17:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I just used the word relationship twice above, when I meant interactions in the former.

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 23 September 2004 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree 100% with Jocelyn on Margaret Atwood. I loved Cat's Eye and Robber Bride, and thought Handmaid's Tale and Oryx and Crake were, well, "mleh". Good ideas behind them, but the writing was too forced. Especially in Oryx and Crake where the female characters were only experienced through the eyes of the male characters. It fell flat.

zan, Thursday, 23 September 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm weirdly prejudiced against literary authors who incorporate genre themes in their work as a way of spicing it up. Irritating."

I'm with you on this. well, sort of, i am. When I read that philip roth's new book was about what might have happened if charles lindberg had become president, i knew i would never read it.

but then i do have a general prejudice against alternate histories and literary reimaginings of history for some reason. it's one reason why I never wanted to read Libra and Underworld even though I like delillo. And yet i don't mind it in science fiction for some reason. and there are exceptions. i enjoyed the book i read about idi amin's fictional scottish doctor. i think if it's history or a person from history that i'm not that familiar with i don't mind as much. if it's too popcult or recent (i couldn't read joyce carol oates' book on marilyn monroe for instance) it just bugs me. i did pick up a book about two fictional pianists and their fictional friendship with glenn gould recently. that one looks pretty cool, actually. so my prejudice can't run that deep!

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 23 September 2004 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

loser by thomas bernhard, right? i still haven't finished it, but not because the book is bad. the intro in my edition has some very interesting stuff about translation, and how difficult he is in that respect.

lauren (laurenp), Friday, 24 September 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, that's the one. I've never read anything by him before.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 24 September 2004 02:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Anything with a first person narrator that has a very strong and distinctive "voice" -- especially stuff written in dialect. I'm sure some books like this are good, but I just drop the book and run when I get halfway down the first page.

Hurting, Friday, 24 September 2004 04:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I also steer clear of books that "piggyback" on other literature -- using a famous title or name to sort of lend weight or wry sophistication. Examples: "The Jane Austen Book Club," "Gilligan's Wake," and one non-fiction example, an unfortunate one since the subject matter could be interesting, "Reading Lolita in Tehran"

Hurting Chief, Friday, 24 September 2004 04:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Underworld isn't really an alternate history or a reimagining, as such. The event he puts at the book's centre really happened, but rather than play fast and loose with the main actors, as in Libra, he invents his own characters to surround it, none of whom contradict the timeline et al. I liked it; it's typical Delillo, the characters all speaking in the same clipped observations, lots of pomo.

On the topic, then: agreed on Palanhiuk; it's fine to read and enjoy, whatever, do you own thing, but you can't claim it as a daring counter-culture talisman, you just can't. Doug Coupland too; I really like him, I think he's fairly clever, witty, and a fair amount of fun to read, but he's simply not the brilliant cutting-edge philosopher that people claim him as.

I'm totally ok with the supposed 'chick lit' stuff, because I've never known people that suggest it as 'capturing the zeitgeist' etc. People I've known read it because it's fun, and that's cool. I read lots of stuff because it's fun, and it's not my place to judge what you find fun. Just please don't tell me to read Pahlaniuk because "it'll really make you think".

I love a good thin book; the more succinct you can get it across, the better. There are few authors whose language is good enough to make me want to wallow in unnecessary prose(Delillo is among the few). I like short stories a lot for this reason too, I guess. That's not to say that I won't go for thick books, but that I'm more inclined to pick a thin one off a discard table.

derrick (derrick), Sunday, 26 September 2004 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree that Dan Brown is bad, but I hate that I judge people based on the fact that they like it.

I don't need to have read Ayn Rand to know that it's crap. Now that is prejudice.

Aaron Silverman, Tuesday, 5 October 2004 03:30 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...
It is very dificult for many people to get their hands around a philosophy in a book, much less the characters and story. This is much more so w Ayn Rand where many cannot comprehend a philosophy that emphasizes the individual and does not worship the state.

Re Southpark, Southpark is excellent and the show's fun w Ayn was simply that; one of the creators is a Libertarian and he admires her immensely. For as you know, libertarians believe we can stand on our own not suckle at the State, depriving one of any worth and creativity.

Franz Kafka (Franz), Thursday, 21 October 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Yo!

Fred (Fred), Friday, 22 October 2004 09:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Or maybe people don't like 50-page long speeches, about how most people are useless leeches.

Nah, couldn't be that. It must be that they just don't understand.

Ray (Ray), Friday, 22 October 2004 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Like I said, my problem with Rand isn't her philosophy (I didn't read enough of the book to feel I could honestly say I got the grasp of what this philosophy is supposed to be) but her terrible, terrible writing.

n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 22 October 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

The terrible writing and terrible philosophy are somewhat of a piece with one another. It's often noted how her philosophy was very much an exaggerated reaction against Communist thought; I wonder sometimes whether her writing style was in any way an exaggerated reaction against Russia's tradition of producing decent literature.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 22 October 2004 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha ha ouch!

n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 22 October 2004 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

4YN R4ND PWND OMGWTFLOL!

n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 22 October 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

:-p

Fred (Fred), Friday, 22 October 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)


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