Deletion Request

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

In light of the Excelsior Book thread and the reactions of the moderators on such thread vis a vis this part of the ILX policy:

Do I have copyright over things I post on ILx?
Yes.

I am requesting the deletion of the following threads:

How many people have you, well, YOU know...?

Necrophilia: Classic or Dud?

Either admit we DON'T have copyright over our posts or delete the only two threads I have ever asked anyone to delete in my entire time on this board. If I have copyright over them, then I have control over who gets to see them.

I want them deleted.

Thanks in advance.

― Allyzay, Saturday, 26 June 2004 04:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Can threads be deleted? What is locking a thread?
Threads can be deleted but we don't like to do it often and will not delete a thread apart from in exceptional circumstances.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 26 June 2004 10:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know about deleting either thread (even though one of them is pretty ass) but the posts I think ally is referring to certainly could be referred to as "exceptional circumstances", if you know what I mean, and I think under these circumstances, she has a perfectly good right to ask for deletion of those posts.

I will say that I consider one of the posts in question at least to be one of the most exceptional, brave and thought-provoking things I've ever read on this forum, I thought that at the time, and I still think it now, but because of the nature of what was posted, I believe that the original poster's request to have these posts removed should be honoured. I don't know about deleting the entire threads.

I realise and understand that my opinion on this may be close to worthless, but there it is, for what it is worth.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 26 June 2004 11:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe that Ally is correct. I have deleted both threads.

I am perfectly willing to not be a moderator anymore if people have a problem with this.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 26 June 2004 13:00 (twenty-one years ago)

But what about everyone else's posts on those threads? I totally agree that Ally has a point, and I don't blame her for not wanting that stuff out there (and of course the complicating factor is that it still *is* out there) but the implication of this is that ILX is totally fucked, policy and format wise. The reality is that we can't be as open as we've been and still pretend we can take things back or control them once they're posted. There are no safeguards beyond immediate moderation. Argh.. yes, I know there's no solution that isn't of a fundamental nature, so perhaps it's best if we pretend that none of this happened. Unless someone has a better idea?

― Kim (Kim), Saturday, 26 June 2004 14:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Well the solution in that case vis a vis everyone else's posts is to go thru and delete my posts only. I thought that was kind of way too time consuming.

Thank you, Dan. And thank you, Pashmina.

Now my exit from the forum.

― Allyzay, Saturday, 26 June 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Tho before that, to help Dan cos I know he's working on the new FAQ. There is a totally legal way for Mr. Noodles's post to be completely valid (as it is, it technically is a pretty slippery slope--you can't give users copyright and then say "but we control whatever way we feel it should be allowed out"): DO I HAVE COPYRIGHT OVER WHAT I POST TO ILX?

NO. ILX OWNS THE COPYRIGHT TO ALL POSTS.

Easy as that. No, people won't like it. But if you want to not honor people's deletion/modification requests (which I could understand if you don't) then you cannot give everyone copyright to their own posts.

Or you could just code in a fucking "delete/edit" function though I know the reasoning behind not doing such is that "threads won't make sense if people can change their posts after the fact" yadda yadda.

― Allyzay, Saturday, 26 June 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmm, I don't think I'd have deleted the entire threads (but I'm not having a go at Dan). Ally is perfectly entitled to ask for her own posts to be deleted, but not everyone else's on the threads. If removing her posts makes the rest nonsensical or pointless, it becomes a judgement call - can a brief substituted explanation still make it all make sense, without giving away the nature of what was removed, I guess is the key question. If not, is there enough in the thread to justify leaving it even with that drawback? Without reading these threads, I can't comment in this case, so this is not meant as a criticism of Dan - it may well be that I'd have completely agreed with him.

This copyright versus deletion is going to have to be sorted, or it could lead to chaos. Our guidelines are that we only delete in exceptional circumstances, and I think it would be a bad thing to move too far away from that. Owning the copyright on your work doesn't entitle you to ask a publisher to chop your pages out of an anthology, and I think we should modify any FAQ on ownership to say that posting it here means you have given the single specific right away, that of having those words appear on ILX, and that any subsequent request for removal will be treated sympathetically, but the decision is at the moderators' discretion. Does that sound a sensible balance? Otherwise, what is to stop someone who has made thousands of posts maliciously insisting that we remove all of them, possibly making nonsense of hundreds of threads and costing us vast amounts of work?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 26 June 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

That's a better idea. =)

― Kim (Kim), Saturday, 26 June 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

A good point to the "ilx owning copyright" idea is that it wouldn't even include any of the photos of ourselves we might post here - they are merely linked FROM here, and hosted elsewhere. Any writings etc, that a person does not wish to "contribute" to ilx as a whole, could be similarly linked and if quoted could be attributed to the source or have it policy that permission be asked. It's a good start anyway.

― Kim (Kim), Saturday, 26 June 2004 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

ILX owning copyright would be a can of worms to say the least.

1) Theoretically, they could then make all the books they like. And market them and sell many. This would be a bad thing.
2) Responsibility for the content would therefore reside with ILX. This would be an exceptionally bad thing and dangerous to boot.
3) The number of anecdotes I have added over the year I have been on, would in theory not be mine anymore. Booo.

Of these points, number two is the most pressing. Regards.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 28 June 2004 07:45 (twenty-one years ago)

the thing here is (and this is just my 2cents) if "i own copyright"="i have the right to ask for an entire thread to be deleted" it can also be interpreted as "i own copyright"="don't delete threads with my writing on them w/o my permission." i understand this is sort of a special situation tho (i don't know the details but i trust you guys).
..

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 28 June 2004 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

One thread in particular included Marcello in full-on narcissistic twat mode and deeply intimate details about other posters' lives in an effort to get him to shut the fuck up.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 June 2004 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Owning the copyright on your work doesn't entitle you to ask a publisher to chop your pages out of an anthology

This is, actually, not true at all: Owning copyright on your work does entitle you to ask a publisher to chop your pages out of an anthology (at least in the U.S.; this has in fact happened). IANAL and all that, but I am a publisher and this has come up.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 09:10 (twenty-one years ago)

If somone makes a legal claim that "ILX" as an entity/board owns copyright to all posts then I may very well stop posting here. I did the same on orkut because it had the same legal rule.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Did Dan just delete entire threads without just cause? Uh-oh...

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 1 July 2004 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Chris, that surely means the publisher hasn't got decent contracts!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 1 July 2004 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)

HOW WILL I KNOW IF NECROPHILIA IS CLASSIC OR DUD?!!!!!?

― oops (Oops), Friday, 2 July 2004 06:48 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread has been locked by an administrator

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.