Alan Moore!

warrior stuff really wasn't readily available in the US even through the 90's. I mean you COULD find it but it didn't even really trumpet the fact that it was moore and I did hunt it down over the years.

the fact that these comics were or weren't available in america is BESIDE THE POINT. Shakey asked: are there any runs of comics by alan moore w/out rape in them, and i offered a few examples of runs of comics by alan moore w/out rape in them. i'm sure there are others. now i think WmC raises the interesting question of why this troubling repetition of rape as theme and scene - and i agree it exists in many of the examples cited - was far less common during the early part of alan's (mostly british) career. and i'm sure there are many gd answers - the american comics were less stringently edited, over time it became an idee fixee, whatev - that don't involve the merits or o/wise of euro comic distribution in america. that's all.

i managed to acquire some v nice smokeable hemp produce earlier on today which is why i'm up too late discussing this stuff but now i shld go to bed. gnight ilcers.

I guess I'm just as dismissive of that early stuff as Alan is lol, it's a pretty small/largely insignificant part of his ouevre imho, things he did before his true rape-y interests came to the fore haha

anything i havent read is insignificant - Shakey Mo Collir.e

you forgot the all-important 'lol' or 'haha'

if you're trying to tell me that I saw them in stores when I was a kid you are sadly mistaken

lol you have gone from "this never existed" to "ok it existed but it was never available in the US" to "so it existed and was available in the US but I never saw it and therefore you're STILL WRONG and it's NO GOOD ANYWAY I bet"

DR and Quinch was reprinted in Warrior... iirc? (along with Miracleman and the OG b&W V for Vendetta)

you r very i

weren't the earlier strips aimed at a younger market? what was the average age of someone buying 2000ad? warrior?

The demographic of 2000AD at that time(early eighties) was boys aged 8 - 14, I think? I couldn't say the exact age range for Warrior, but it was definitely aimed at a much older, "mature" audience. I guess if they were hoping to appeal to readers that grew up with the original Marvelman, that would put it at mid-twenties to thirties? Maybe.

this has gone oddly like that ilm thread where someone asked for a top 100 songs about rape

lol you have gone from "this never existed" to "ok it existed but it was never available in the US" to "so it existed and was available in the US but I never saw it and therefore you're STILL WRONG and it's NO GOOD ANYWAY I bet"

I love this ILX tactic where posters misrepresent what was actually said to score points CLASSIC

Ward is OTM that the availability of this stuff is largely irrelevant, my only point in this thread derail was that Moore's non-rapey material predates his prominence - why that is is a more interesting question but who cares about that let's play collection-stack-measuring internet pedant instead

my suspicion is that this relies on something like 'the reification of traditions of popular fiction' (oy) but don't ask me to make that idea work - like, that we now arrive at a place where you can write the league of extraordinary gentlemen says essentially bad things about our culture, in ways that moore may or may not be aware to the extent he is complicit in

-

try and imagine loeg '12 with the cast of twilight, harry potter and law and order: svu

-

hey i was almost right!

anyway, it's funny that the last part of century came out the same week as 50 shades of grey became the best selling commercial object ever, because there is absolutely nothing that separates them

Ouch.

cranky mo collier

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/mary-poppins-fight-voldemort-olympic-opening-ceremony-170354031--oly.html

Can I hear you say WTFUCKINGF?

Do we get the penis ray gun too?

One can only hope.

Speaking of which, was there any literary significance behind the penis ray gun or was it just a cheaply crowbarred dick joke on the part of Moore?

Can't say I enjoyed 2009 very much at all. I couldn't even be arsed to read Minions on the Moon. Is it worthwhile? Considering how much I <3 the first two books, the rapid decline of this series has been more disappointing than I can put into words.

I'm not sure what the joke in that joke would be, but I would be surprised if there wasn't a magical sausagefest somewhere with strong views on the cock as a magic wand.

From Jess Nevins' site:

Greg Daly writes, “The 'penis as wand' gag here is something implied throughout the Harry Potter books. The Hogwarts stories can be understood as a magical rather than a sexual coming of age -- it seems that sex is wholly sublimated as magic in the books. All teachers are celibate, with one teacher's lycanthropy standing in as a surrogate homosexuality, with closed-minded parents fearing that exposure to him will somehow harm their children. More broadly, male students are expected to excell in Defence Against the Dark Arts, where the wand is the primary tool, while female ones tend to do best in Potions, reliant most heavily on the cauldron; the sexual symbolism of wands and cauldrons is fairly clear. In the final Potter book, Rowling repeatedly uses phallic language when describing the use of Potter's wand, and it's significant that for a significant part of the book he's rendered impotent when his wand is broken. In other words, this isn't just a cheap and puerile joke. It might be that too, of course...”

Greg Arnott writes, “you may find it useful to look into Crowley's symbolism of the wand to clarify the death of Alan Quatermain by Harry Potter's cock. Particularly Chapter VI of Book 4: Book 2: Magic, "The Wand". Its a tricky chapter for an aspiring magician who goes around talking about "constructing a baculum" without knowing what the word means in the non-esoteric sense. “

From the Mindless Ones:

Amy: Finally Alan has Harry put away that bloody wand and reached for the real source of all that expelliarmussing. It’s juvenile, Harry’s juvenile, but it also speaks to a character who’s disenchanted with all he’s been through, all the whomping whufflepuffing, an angry kid who’s seen through his conditioning and decided to cut through the shit and get real (Grr! Potter ain’t for kids anymore!). Pissing on Quatermain is also a disdainful act and a macho one (“My fiction’s bigger than yours!”) and I have nothing against Moore going with this. People’s weird relationship with sex and with their own private parts is something barely in evidence at all in not just comics but most fiction. I can easily imagine a character with Harry’s powers doing what he does here. Why not? Last week someone probably far less fucked up than Harry smeared their poo all over our work toilet wall…. I think some people read this sort of thing and all they see is Moore going for shock value, and he is, but he’s also touching on something very real – violent people often have violent, or at least quite odd, sexualities…. But more to the point, we all have sexualities and Moore wants to talk about that! Thinking about it now, it’s probably one of the reasons why Moore’s comics seem hung up on rape, because it’s just another facet of the extreme violence that suffuses adventure stories, only one that’s normally shied away from.

Adam: Suffuses adventure stories and reality.

Andrew: You read that as urinating? I thought he was “sacrificing a male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence”, as it were…

Masturbation seems to have been the key to magic in the view of both Spare and Crowley. Crowley talked of the highest awakening being caused by sacrificing a child — “the sacrifice of oneself spiritually. And the intelligence and innocence of that male child are the perfect understanding of the Magician, his one aim, without lust of result. And male he must be, because what he sacrifices is not the material blood, but his creative power.”

(By sacrificing a child he meant sacrificing the possibility of a child, by ejaculating somewhere other than inside the vagina of a fertile woman).

Spare, meanwhile, believed that sigils should be charged at the moment of orgasm. Is Potter here inadvertantly turning Quartermain into something more powerful when he kills him, by concentrating on him as he ejaculates? It’d explain Quartermain’s ghostly presence at the end (Aslan Quartermain…)

(On a more prosaic note, Quartermain here looks exactly like he’s been shot by a Dalek).

Amy: The electric drip as Harry shakes his dick off!

“….Fucking repulsive piece of mekrob…”

I didn’t know this, I thought mekrob was Urdu for shit or something, but actually this cuss word (which kinda does mean shit) was first popularised by one E. Cartman of South Park, Colorado and it refers to his most hated food stuff.

Anyway, all this dragon slaying is a much better outlet for Orlando’s periodic bouts of psychopathy than the indiscriminate slaughter of fellow servicemen and civilians. Just keep them adventuring…. This ties in with what Allan was saying earlier in the book about the adventuring fucking them all up. Once you’ve tasted that high, the day to day must seem pretty flat.

gotta agree this is the weakest one yet. felt really perfunctory

awesome 1985 interview/promo re: Swamp Thing w/Len Wein, Alan, and Karen Berger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJlZUpgXQJI&feature=related

(note that everybody thinks they're working on a horror comic fwiw)

http://slovobooks.wordpress.com/2014/01/09/last-alan-moore-interview/

damn, he went in

That was really hilarious, especially when he got to his gigantic Grant Morrison boner

culminating with this

As already stated, any publishers, friends, artistic collaborators or other close associates of Grant Morrison or Laura Sneddon should not approach me in future. Further to this, any periodicals or institutions which publish or have published interviews with Grant Morrison should similarly not attempt to contact me. To be brutally honest, I’d prefer it if, as with the Before Watchmen re-creators, their associates and their readers, admirers of Grant Morrison’s work would please stop reading mine, as I don’t think it fair that my respect and affection for my own readership should be compromised in any way by people that I largely believe to be shallow and undiscriminating.

He sounds like a very bitter and boring person. I guess he's earned it though.

The Moore/Morrison feud is Kaufman/Lawler-esque in its OTT-ness.

I am a terrible comics fan because I either had no idea or had completely forgotten about it (though tbh I rarely pay any attention to what comics creators say about each other)

whole thing was pretty lol but man yeah his bitterness/vitriol is very OTT

otoh I have no idea what works Morrison is supposed to have ripped off of Moore - the Invisibles? Animal Man? Batman Inc.? idgi

remember 50% of it is ripped off from Michael Moorcock

this older article gives Morrison's side of things (as told to the infamous Laura Sneddon)
http://comicsbeat.com/the-strange-case-of-grant-morrison-and-alan-moore-as-told-by-grant-morrison/

I get that Moorcock was pissed (and considered suing?) over the Gideon Stargrave thing but even that was just a minor part of the Invisibles. idk everything seems so blown out of proportion.

I wish both those guys would take this to the astral plane Ditko-Dr. Strange style and duke it out up there psychedelically rather than insisting we all listen to this bitchiness. I used to love reading Moore interviews but that may be the last one I can deal with.

rather than insisting we all listen to this bitchiness

c'mon this is hilarious though

feel like morrison has been waiting to straight up cast moore as a batman villain, surprised that hasn't happened yet

xp yeah it is so OTT it can be funny. I liked how Morrison turned it around by coming up with ways Moore could have ripped HIM off.
I guess Moore means so much to me that it's painful watching him
- insist that everything that happened in comics over past 30 years directly derives from him
- continue to be completely blind to the fact that practically everything he does is a very clever revision of some past property
- every day add to his enemies list of people he will no longer talk to (I think at this point it's down to Kev O'Neill and his wife who he'll speak with)
- ride the high high horse of him being some infinite paragon of virtue in a fallen world surrounded by thieves and liars

feel like morrison has been waiting to straight up cast moore as a batman villain, surprised that hasn't happened yet

Seven Soldiers was nine years ago man!

continue to be completely blind to the fact that practically everything he does is a very clever revision of some past property

yeah this is pretty weird. made weirder when he complains about the comics industry endlessly recycling stuff.

V for Vendetta the lone(?) exception

There was a bunch of stuff in the early days (Bojeffries, D.R. & Quinch, etc) but not much the last 25 years.

was excited to get back my issues of Dalgoda recently, cuz they had Bojeffries in the back. many lolz.

Top Shelf is reissuing the Complete Bojeffries Saga next month.

From Hell remains my favorite Moore.

This new 'interview' was worth it for the a+ burn when he says (I'm paraphrasing) that grant was four or five years younger than him "at the time" but that the age gap has mysteriously grown larger since then.

Yes lots of it comes from moorcock anyway but surely even more from Ballard!

yeah this is pretty weird. made weirder when he complains about the comics industry endlessly recycling stuff.

See? He of all people should be charitable even when he suspects that something's gone beyond 'influenced by' to 'derivative of'. And besides in comics everything IS derivative of everything else, it's how the industry survived. And to top it off in some cases the properties Moore revised were themselves copies of copies of copies.

If you get a chance read the Twilight proposal though, it's pretty prescient and I'm sure a bunch of that was remembered and used. If I was a DC editor at the time I know I would have taken a lot of it on board.

So he wants it both ways: to be seen as the man who *really* provided all the ideas for other people's current success, AND he also wants to wash his hands of the industry, and say he's grown out of it, the industry as it stands is for the mentally challenged or arrested or whatever. He could just say 'godspeed, enjoy building on my past success, I've moved on, have fun' he's determined to demand even more recognition ... from people he despises? I dunno.

Never meet yr idols, I guess!

i honestly never read 7 soldiers. should i?

if you like Morrison doing complicated and thrill-powered superheroes and having Alan Moore joeks

but not much the last 25 years.

Big Numbers, The Birth Caul, Voice Of The Fire, The Moon And Serpent Grand Egyptian Theatre Of Marvels, Act Of Faith, A Small Killing, Dodgem Logic, Top Ten, The Highbury Working, Astounding Weird Penises, Madame October, Promethea, Jimmy's End, Snakes & Ladders, Candid Chit-Chats With Cartoon Kit-Cats [ok yeah but it includes one of his own], Unearthing, This Is Information, Outbreaks Of Violets, Angel Passage, Unearthing, p much every poem I can think of except for The Mirror Of Love (which was '88, so all minor ones, but still), From Hell...

i honestly never read 7 soldiers. should i?

YES

I knew pretty much nothing about the DC continuity he was playing with and I thought the whole thing was wonderful