Wait though - which bit of Keef + Mick depends on you having any idea who the Stones are? Definitely none of the Marx brothers does.
Moon Roach is a case where I can see the other side - I'd never heard of any of the Moon Knight stuff it was parodying, and so it comes through as obviously stylised nonsense - which is exactly the part it plays in the plot.
― Andrew Farrell, Saturday, 22 September 2012 08:52 (eleven years ago) link
Who the fuck doesn't at least vaguely know who the Rolling Stones and the Marx Brothers are?
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Saturday, 22 September 2012 10:09 (eleven years ago) link
young people today
― ┐(´ー`)┌ (sic), Saturday, 22 September 2012 12:15 (eleven years ago) link
I think those with enough cultural curiosity to try Cerebus would.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Saturday, 22 September 2012 12:35 (eleven years ago) link
chap otm
― The Jesus and Mary Lizard (WmC), Saturday, 22 September 2012 14:14 (eleven years ago) link
i think i had only a very vague idea about the marx brothers when i started reading cerebus
― human centipede hz (thomp), Saturday, 22 September 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
also dave sim writes a good groucho marx but 'mick 'n' keef' are not funny
― human centipede hz (thomp), Saturday, 22 September 2012 14:52 (eleven years ago) link
all the moon roach, wolveroach etc shit: not funny
The Roach is great, especially the DKR parody. Mick n Keef have their moments, though I often find Sim's recreations of accents just annoying. It makes the dialogue a bit of slog sometimes.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Saturday, 22 September 2012 15:07 (eleven years ago) link
I love Sims' Oscar Wilde, Mick & Keef and Marx Brothers stuff and don't think a prior knowledge is required to fully appreciate that stuff. I didn't know the details of Wilde's sodomy trial before reading "Jaka's story", was delighted to read later how well Sims had integrated those details into Oscar's exchange with the tavern owner (Pud?)
I ~get~ Moon Roach and he's just fine but he's probably the weakest character imo, with or without a knowledge of who he's satirizing
― whiter than... this? (Ówen P.), Saturday, 22 September 2012 16:49 (eleven years ago) link
nothing engages new readers like twenty five year old parodies of rock stars and eighty year old parodies of slapstick comedies, unless it's biographical fanfic about oscar wilde and ernest hemingway
― This cad needs a cordial introduction to Eugene of Oxbow. (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 22 September 2012 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno man, those jokes never really get old. My younger bros read Cerebus for the first time this summer and really dug it
― whiter than... this? (Ówen P.), Saturday, 22 September 2012 16:58 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc0ryR-1GZI
― This cad needs a cordial introduction to Eugene of Oxbow. (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 22 September 2012 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
I started reading Cerebus as a teenager over 20 years ago. At that time I knew the Marx Bros well enough but not the Stones so I didn't get all the jokes but it didn't stop me from getting into it. The comics references are definitely of their time and place though. How many people are gonna get a DKR parody today? I think this stuff is minor though and doesn't really hurt the work but I can see how it might put people off.
― fit and working again, Saturday, 22 September 2012 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
I quit reading Marvel/DC around '93 so I didn't get any of the Rabbi/Preacher stuff. But by then the book had gone well off the rails, so I didn't feel I was missing much.
― The Jesus and Mary Lizard (WmC), Saturday, 22 September 2012 19:04 (eleven years ago) link
Oh man I forgot Secret Sacred Wars Roach: that might have been my favorite Roach. The whole joke of Shooter's paragraphs of expository dialogue might lose new readers, though it kind of fits in with that sublimely inexplicable atmosphere that pervades the first 100 pages of C&S II
― did drake invent yolo (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 22 September 2012 21:09 (eleven years ago) link
Well, as a firm believer in both free will and predestination, I think [the non-narrative works Judenhass and glamourpuss] -- and CEREBUS -- were fully-formed when my grandfather was still in his mother's womb. But, in the sense that I see you as meaning: the conventional "physically incarnated" hatching out of our lives, yes, definitely they were gestating throughout my life. I wanted to be Neal Adams when I grew up. Or, at least, when I got taller :) It's hard to communicate the extent to which virtually EVERYONE in my generation of comic artist wanted to be Neal Adams when they grew up. It would be surprising if I would have done something else once CEREBUS was done.It occurred to me for the first time a while ago that in a real sense most of CEREBUS could have just been a practice tee -- a 26-year and three month practice tee, if you can believe it -- getting me ready for doing THE STRANGE DEATH OF ALEX RAYMOND. He died in 1956. I was 112 days old when he died. 56 and 56 is 112. I'm 56 this year. It seems more than a little significant to me. God grinds the axes he intends to use.
It occurred to me for the first time a while ago that in a real sense most of CEREBUS could have just been a practice tee -- a 26-year and three month practice tee, if you can believe it -- getting me ready for doing THE STRANGE DEATH OF ALEX RAYMOND. He died in 1956. I was 112 days old when he died. 56 and 56 is 112. I'm 56 this year. It seems more than a little significant to me. God grinds the axes he intends to use.
― ┐(´ー`)┌ (sic), Monday, 24 September 2012 00:59 (eleven years ago) link
And Dave grinds any axe that gets near him.
― EVERYONE COOKING SCMABLED EGGS,CHEESE WITH TOASTER!! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 24 September 2012 01:00 (eleven years ago) link
I can admire the craft, but man, I just could not get into CEREBUS.
― Matt M., Monday, 24 September 2012 04:33 (eleven years ago) link
as a firm believer in both free will and predestination
this guy
― stop swearing and start windmilling (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 24 September 2012 15:33 (eleven years ago) link
The TCJ thread where Dave & Kim and the general public have been "negotiating" has gotten out of control in a way that reminds of the old Journal message boards. Totally entertaining trainwreck, with people talking past each other and Hitler references and Gary Groth dropping a hot load on Dave's head.
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 00:41 (eleven years ago) link
Aaaagh, I just spent 90 minutes with that thread and the Hardtalk questions and I need a brain-rinse.
― Death Grits 2 (WmC), Wednesday, 3 October 2012 02:20 (eleven years ago) link
I did say it was like the old TCJ boards. Those always left me feeling wrong in the head.
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 02:30 (eleven years ago) link
makes me want to take up butt-chugging
― Death Grits 2 (WmC), Wednesday, 3 October 2012 02:49 (eleven years ago) link
upthread i wrote:
don't think sim ever forgave fanta for (rightly, imho) not including him in their list of 100 greatest cartoonists or whatevs, back in the day.
tom spurgeon wrote this today on the comics reporter site:
suspect this latest "negotiation" was entered into in somewhat bad faith by Sim, perhaps unintentionally, and as a result it quickly become a launching pad for longstanding grievances -- grievances I further suspect are more "exclusion from Top 100" oriented than "you compared me to a Nazi" oriented.
― Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 08:42 (eleven years ago) link
Dave posted in the middle of the night and is now pushing the goalpost of discussions into 2013. Batshittery shall never end.
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 12:52 (eleven years ago) link
Batshit is as batshit does.
― Matt M., Wednesday, 3 October 2012 14:30 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe we can get Neal Adams to illustrate this trainwreck and call it BATSHIT ODYSSEY. It's likely Dave Sim sits shirtless at a table narrating his adventures.
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 14:32 (eleven years ago) link
I would buy that comic.
― Matt M., Wednesday, 3 October 2012 16:23 (eleven years ago) link
this is very entertaining:
http://images.comiccollectorlive.com/covers/b0d/b0d36be2-e567-48fe-ba74-e771aa338c73.jpg
― fit and working again, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 20:10 (eleven years ago) link
Dave interviewed Neal? So maybe we can get BATSHIT ODYSSEY to happen.
I know Following Cerebus existed but I've never seen one.
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
A booklength discussion between Dave and Neal.
― fit and working again, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 21:01 (eleven years ago) link
This is a good description.
― fit and working again, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
Okay, I just got the net up at the new place and downloaded the a/v High Society #1. I'm laughing out loud at Sim's voices for the characters. This ongoing batshittery will entertain me each week for months.
And speaking of batshittery, the way he played Fantagraphics just to be a total dick? Classic Sim.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 12 October 2012 16:11 (eleven years ago) link
where is this?
― EVERYONE COOKING SCMABLED EGGS,CHEESE WITH TOASTER!! (forksclovetofu), Friday, 12 October 2012 16:18 (eleven years ago) link
First issue is free here:
http://www.cerebusdownloads.com/
I backed the kickstarter for $15 so I'll get each issue free as they're released.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 12 October 2012 16:21 (eleven years ago) link
go to http://momentofcerebus.blogspot.com/ -- the "Fantagraphics Offer" updates from Oct and Sept in the sidebar summarize the stuff from here: http://www.tcj.com/dave-sim-responds-to-the-fantagraphics-offer/
The whole thing will take a while to skim and hours and hours to read thoroughly, and life is short.
EZ OTM, Dave has the instincts of a seasoned internet troll.
― WmC, Friday, 12 October 2012 16:27 (eleven years ago) link
oh i followed the tcj thing, but the cerebus downloads is gonna be WHOA
― EVERYONE COOKING SCMABLED EGGS,CHEESE WITH TOASTER!! (forksclovetofu), Friday, 12 October 2012 17:17 (eleven years ago) link
You saw how he announced a book of Cerebus covers, and a special edition High Society Digital through IDW? And got $30,000 or something upfront? Serious douchebaggery when you consider what prompted the Fanta offer.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 12 October 2012 17:28 (eleven years ago) link
in the style of the fanta negosh, the "book of covers from IDW" had blown out to three, then four, then probably including the colour strips as well, within a day or so
― set the controls for the arse of your mum (sic), Friday, 12 October 2012 22:27 (eleven years ago) link
Disingenuousness has a new name!
― Matt M., Friday, 12 October 2012 23:05 (eleven years ago) link
DiSIMgenuousness.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 12 October 2012 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
MAKE IT SO. FROM THIS DAY FORWARD.
― Matt M., Saturday, 13 October 2012 00:03 (eleven years ago) link
For people who hadn't been keeping up, Dave has a new quarterly KS featuring 10 full size repros of pages and ancillary artwork still in his possession. Each quarter features a different phonebook/era, with the idea to keep him going to finish up Alex Raymond and to tidy up the scans of the art enough to get new phonebooks ready to publish. Assuming every quarter hits the same targets as this one, he'll achieve that goal.
― Rabona not glue (aldo), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 14:24 (nine years ago) link
the batshit part: he expects this to carry on for decades after his death
― rage against martin sheen (sic), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 14:49 (nine years ago) link
any idea how much dough was he pulling in in the mid-80s? I know he's broke/an ascetic now but back then he seemed to maintain this whole rock-star image, back cover photos of him pulling up to conventions in limos, staying in fancy hotels, bimbos hanging on him... was that all just bullshit or was he really rolling in it?
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 15:38 (nine years ago) link
dude's arc seems like a total tragedy in retrospect
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 15:39 (nine years ago) link
"bimbos"?
― Look at this joke I've recognised, do you recognise it as well? (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 15:40 (nine years ago) link
seems like the proper nomenclature for a dave sim thread
― Mordy, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 15:43 (nine years ago) link
Aside from the pleasures of that kind of lifestyle, think Sim also wanted to show other comics people the riches they could earn from self-publishing (but this was at a time when creators on high-royalty earning corporate comics were also earning small fortunes - I know of one penciller who bought a house from the royalties they earned from just one single, high profile Marvel/DC crossover comic)
― sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 18 June 2014 15:48 (nine years ago) link