rolling Jericho calls The New Day trap queens 2016

Btw for THE ROAD TO THE BIGGEST WRESTLEMANIA EVEEERRRRRR we have... one title match noone actually wants to see booked. Is there actually any other matches on the card for wm32? I guess no zayn-owens, lesnar taker ambrose aj charlotte sasha dont have opponehts. The New Day vs the League of nations maybe? That is fucking uninspired. The wyatts cant beat kane and big show, they dont deserve to be on wm.

FAAAÀAAAAAAAAST LAAAAAANE ON THE ROAD TO.... nothing really

Their TV income may be secure but I still can't see them sitting around saying that it doesn't matter if Roman Reigns gets booed or not. It won't kill their TV money, at least not for a while, but it can have a huge effect on a big event live Wrestlemania. Tens of thousands of unsold tickets + lost merch + a lower than expected boost in network subscribers can add up to tens of millions in lost income if the card is terrible. This year's Mania could be a serious wake up call.

big event *like* WM

Familys will still buy tickets and merch if the show was made less dull. Noone (who isnt a moron) is asking for it to be 97ecw, it can still be family friendly and have an exciting angle or actual characters with personalities once in a while.

Tens of thousands of unsold tickets + lost merch + a lower than expected boost in network subscribers can add up to tens of millions in lost income if the card is terrible

is that what we're talking about though? i'm pretty sure people buy Roman Reigns merchandise and i'm pretty sure that putting Reigns in the main-event isn't going to lose them tens of thousands of ticket sales. the booing thing is totally true of course, they're gonna look ridiculous if this goes the way it looks likes going and he gets the Royal Rumble treatment again to close Mania. but don't they always go on now about how the Mania brand is a stronger draw than any card they put together?

nxt and by extension the cruiserweight thing and breaking ground -- all the 'minor league' stuff -- feel more and more cynical the crappier the main product gets, like they really only do exist to retain the $9.99/mo from the 'niche' that rejects a roman/HHH main event, basically negating all main roster criticism.

yeah this is true i think, and it totally works because the alternative they're providing with NXT is really that good - totally agree that it's in a lull right now (in particular they've gotta work out how to make Finn Balor something more than a look and an entrance or he's gonna go the way of Neville) but as you say, it's about to take off in the not-too-distant future and the card they've put together for Dallas looks absolutely thrilling, a million miles more interesting than anything they'll be able to rustle up for WM.

And all this is kinda fine, I think? If you think about the times historically when the product has been at its absolute worst (in the recent-ish past I think you can make a good case that 2007-2010 things were as bad as they've ever been, entertainment-wise) there was no refuge to take! you either watched the shit stuff or you got nothing.

i understand where the accusation of cynicism is coming from and it's valid to say that having NXT gives them some breathing room to let Raw just be total turd, but it's not like if NXT wasn't around there would be some guarantee that all the smarks would stop paying for the Network and force the company to sit up and take notice. WWE's been shit loads of times while barely catering to the hardcore fans and they've always got by. I wouldn't wish NXT away in the hope that they might somehow be forced to improve the booking on the main show. Seems like a fools errand while VKM is running things.

if anyone is really dissatisfied i suppose the answer is to just stop paying? i've stopped (cashflow problems around Xmas meaning I had to cut out a few subscription services for a little while) and it's totally fine, it's not like the torrent sites don't have everything up 5 mins after the broadcast is over anyway. steal everything all the time imo

Rewatching the main event as i was half asleep when i saw it earlier.

Ambrose being caught by Lesnar for a suplex was terrific. Always love a shield call back too, the table spots were great in showing what you really need to do to stop lesnar, instead of a shit wyatt spot. Also Sable has to be pissed, why does everyone hate her husbands genitals?

All a perfectly fine match, although im a bit disappointed as i just wanted to see some more brock and the overall storytelling for reigns at wm is very underwhelming.

Also i feel like crazy ambrose just doesnt match his character. Stop pointing at the wrestlemania sign and go wild.

For what was a really fun match, boy is the crowd fucking dead or mildly booing at the end.

I just really dont see how reigns is the annointed one. Hes good, sometimes excellent but just noone cares. At all. Noone cares. He is not a compelling character. Fighting a guy who has not defended his title once and never won it off anyone really.

this was exactly why NJPW refused outright to a deal that was (reportedly) floated where WWE got to broadcast New Japan stuff on the Network (god how amazing would that have been?!), saying that they'd have to be chumps to agree to a situation where the WWE were promoting all the New Japan guys and just waiting to snaffle any talent that got over outside of Japan. of course as it turned out the WWE just shrugged their shoulders and did exactly that anyway.

Oh come on now, are wrestlers cattle? It's the same argument I heard over the Evolve partnership, 'ZOMG Hunter is poaching the indies, WWE is gonna kill the scene' etc.

I just really dont see how reigns is the annointed one. Hes good, sometimes excellent but just noone cares. At all. Noone cares. He is not a compelling character. Fighting a guy who has not defended his title once and never won it off anyone really.

They're not booking for us. I'm OK with that, I get what I want from the midcard far more often. Doesn't stop me wishing they'd built Reigns slower and steadier, though, because it was starting to work last year before WWE panicked over injuries thinning the upper-card talent pool, floored the gas and ruined it.

Their booking of Reigns follows a tried and tested pattern, they've done it countless times over and it's always worked before. So WWE is having trouble fathoming why this time would be any different, missing the blindingly obvious fact that the audience en masse doesn't buy Reigns as The Guy, because he's clearly not ready for the job.

This isn't like the Cena thing, where the fan base was far more divided, and passionate about it. This is a case of WWE letting everyone see their booking hand, and the fans actually seeing how they're being manipulated, and just being fed up with it.

Here's another metaphor. Imagine your favourite song being butchered by an ill-prepared cover band - that's Roman Reigns in this situation.

Was never saying that wwe was killing anything, nor that wrestlers didn't have a mind of their own. Simply speculating that maybe njpw will be more loathe to cross-promote with wwe or allow their contracted guys to appear on wwe programming than they were 6 months ago. Could well be totally wrong! As I say, only speculating

Was never saying that wwe was killing anything, nor that wrestlers didn't have a mind of their own. Simply speculating that maybe njpw will be more loathe to cross-promote with wwe or allow their contracted guys to appear on wwe programming than they were 6 months ago. Could well be totally wrong! As I say, only speculating

I wasn't commenting on that, but on those who would extrapolate from it that WWE is out to crush all that we hold dear. WWE is making overtures in Japan for sure with the Network launch there, and knowing they're a bigger brand than NJPW is in its home country, so only natural that New Japan would be careful.

Their booking of Reigns follows a tried and tested pattern, they've done it countless times over and it's always worked before. So WWE is having trouble fathoming why this time would be any different, missing the blindingly obvious fact that the audience en masse doesn't buy Reigns as The Guy, because he's clearly not ready for the job.

They used to pay more attention to crowd reactions, now it's more about who they want on top for whatever reason and the crowd will learn to like it. It's not that Reigns isn't ready to the top guy, Bautista didn't have more experience than Reigns when he headlined Mania, but the crowd reactions week in and week out were way beyond anything Reigns gets.

The Batista thing was different, though, because they weren't so invested in him: they were hoping for a cheap Hollywood rub, and overestimated his value with the fan base as an in-ring guy (I mean, we're all OK with him in Guardians of the Galaxy, right?). Backing out of that wasn't as big a deal. But they've booked themselves into a corner with Reigns, who - and I maintain my stance on this - isn't ready. Whatever charisma he might have inside the ring does not translate to his general demeanour, and that's a massive problem.

MacDara - I think NoTimesBeforeTime is talking about Wrestlemania 21 when Batista took on HHH and won the title for the first time.

Thanks, I missed that part. But even at that, as green as he was between the ropes, Batista had a certain something that Roman Reigns does not have, or at least doesn't show. What does 'experience' count for, anyway?

I agree. Roman has all the signifiers of "it" without seeming to actually have "it". The anti-Daniel Bryan.

They've ignored crowd sentiment and apathy before (King of the Ring 95 being the most obvious example I can think of? Maybe also remembering Jack Swagger once won mitb and the big gold belt) but they also *noticed*, better too late than never and all that. If Roman beat Kane's record and won the Rumble and won at WM30, fine, Bryan could have still beat HHH but ever since his boring match with Orton at SS and injury like a week after, no-one has cared. That was 18 months ago he lost his heat and they've done nothing but fuck up every aspect since, leading to more and more apathy.

All while they've had crowds cheer and root for Cesaro, Ambrose, Brock, Owens, Cena, Ziggler, Rollins, Rusev, New Day, hell even Neville gets a better reaction and has shown he can lead from the top better when he was nxt champ as it grew into a big deal.

I cant see how this ends, accept Reigns is the only major star or stop watching, or just dont watch his segments, I guess. But people are already doing that and they are losing thousands of people a week. And its making people frustrated about every other aspect of the show.

The Attitude era WWF beat WCW because Rocky, Austin, Foley, HHH, Angle, Taker and a few others all seemed like they could realistically be the champ and demand yr attention; while as well documented Hogan and Nash et al used their politics or backstage shit got in the way of Goldberg, DDP etc. achieving similar respect and it became a mess. While maybe not on par with the Attitude era guys, and they do have a lot of injuries now, WWE is currently fucking stacked with top talent. And yet the Wyatts lose to Kane, Big Show and Ryback... so either Reigns first feud is against a Wyatt who cant beat Big Show, or against fucking *clapclapclapclapclap PLEASE RETIRE* big show.

so a dude who has successfully spoilered shit in the past (or rather, successfully teased it when a big deal was going down on a show that week) has told R/squaredcircle

Regardless of whatever trash last night was, watch Raw from beginning to end tonight.

You just might get an early christmas present

i am a SUCKER for this shit. just when i thought i was out.....

That was 18 months ago he lost his heat and they've done nothing but fuck up every aspect since, leading to more and more apathy.

i dunno if i agree with this, i think there have been multiple occasions, notably the WM 31 main event and the beatdown on HHH at TLC, where they've got the fans onside with Roman as a top guy. They just can't sustain it, he always reverts to type as this smug dislikable asshole

Yeah, I was talking about Batista at WM 21. The main event was supposed to be Orton-HHH, but Orton choked and/or crowds liked Batista more, so he got to be the one to destroy Evolution for good and beat HHH for the belt. The WWE used to know how to deal with this kind of thing -- Orton wasn't ready and Batista was red hot, so they switched directions. They blew off the HHH-Orton feud at Royal Rumble -- Orton (!!!) got three months of megapush before they gave up and decided to rebuild him later, which is way more than almost anyone else would have gotten. The Reigns push has been going on for two years and he keeps getting less and less popular!

if this crazily rumored thing (LOL GOOD JOB KEEPING ME HERE WWE) doesn't result in SHANE O MAC i'm cancelling the network

jk 1997 raw is so good right now

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HOLY SHIT

Man it sucks im having sleeping problems and nothing else to do but check ilx and see shane o mac rumours.

SHAAAAAAAANE O MAAAAAAC.

Hes gonna wrestle too!!!

Also his children has terrible names, Rogan and Kenyan? Ew.

Lol shane o mac vs taker in hell in a cell?

This is gonna be the worst booked funnest trainwreck wrestlemania ever

It is mind blowing the difference between nxt dallas and wrestlemania star.

One is potentially on a level with No Way Out 2001, Money in the bank 2011 and spring stampede 1994.

The other might be great cos its wm but has the appeal of Great American Bash 91 or watching any Raw between McMahons millions till Hornswaggles laptop.

Ooh boy. I dont usually watch Raw, at best check out whatever is said to be a great match or moment or whatever.

Roman Reigns reaaaaally cant cut a promo. Stood around staring at yr phone? *points to heart and blandly says* its whats here that matters, i like my odds... pssssh this guy has the charisma of steve blackman on the mic.

The first thing that came to mind when Vince announced Shane vs. Undertaker in the Cell was "why would Undertaker wrestle Shane just because Vince told him to?"

Right now they seem to be proposing to have Undertaker be the heel at WrestleMania, which is an odd choice. He was actually showing some heelish traits in his last feud with Lesnar, with the fake tapout and all the low blows. But that didn't end up leading anywhere (in fact IIRC it was barely acknowledged at the time, which was also strange), and even if it had, this would still be a weird direction.

Remember when Austin would drive in an ambulance and come fuck shit up?
Ambrose, former czw guy goes a 2 miles an hour and craws along the floor. What excitement youll see at mania! A streetfight with a guy who cant take a body slam on a car when al snow and roaddogg used to be able to get back up and go another 10 minutes as hardcore jobbers.

Yeah Taker as Vinces lackey seems very strange. But then again maybe its a story 20 years in the making

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cNgxyL5zEAk

I guess taker will take it seriously cos hes got a wrestlemania legacy to uphold? If he doesnt like vince hhh steph in story, he could just have it be fingerpoke of doom?

Ha, I'd forgotten about the Corporate Ministry connection for a second there

Stephs face is about 5 shades of orange, all a lot darker than her neck. Romans texting again, and now hes facing Sheamus and doesnt seem to care much about anything. Not in a lone wolf cool guy way, like she interrupted his game of candycrush.

Rtruth and goldust have been funny in the past, why are these vignettes sooooooooooooo bad?

Bray Wyatts entrance is a snickers commercial lol, this guy once fought john cena and taker at mania i shit you not

I guess they are having the same wyatt-rybackbigshowkane match as last night? Ryback didnt injure guys enough? Wyatt guys need to look even more like chumps?

I cant see myself watching another full raw until the post-wm one.

Oh and also... the fans need Shane o mac to win. A 46 year old non wrestler needs to do what flair, michaels, hhh, orton, kane, edge, diesel etc. Couldnt do.

So... its gotta get absurd. Its gotta be the start of balor club right?

The match is so boring ryback forgot he was in it and wanders off.

"What the hell was that?" Jbl quoting krusty the clown otm

SASHA WOOOO

Sorry for liveblogging.

Sasha Banks v Becky Lynch was great in nxt right? Its next week i guess, actually they didnt say when.

This is about the tenth time theyve reshown the shane interaction

This show is fucking ridiculously long.

For black history month i guess they run out of black wrestlers and then celebrate noted non controversial figure james brown. Surprised they didnt do it to somebody call my momma.

And then lol the godfather is in the hall of fame. I guess messing up at wm8 is kinda like being a hall of fame main eventer.

Roman gets a few boos, and i guess his phone needed recharging cos he finally put it down.

For the first time in kinda long triple h will cut a long boring promo on smackdown.

Watch it! Woo! Im getting sleepy. Maybe raw *is* the cure to my sleeping problems.

Sheamus loses by countout. Fucking captivating.

Hhh wheres a leather jacket! That means something right? Oh he forgot to put a sleeveless denim jacket over it so the brawl is a bit lame cos hes not at full strength. Hopefully after shane o mac returns this week from 1999, as does the sleeveless denim jacket.

Hhh getting massivr cheers to beat up roman lol. Reigns is busted open and getting beat up by a retired suit and they cheer the old motorhead fan.

Wonder where the league of nations went

"This is the sad reality that Roman Reigns must now face."

This is so meta its ridiculous. Face and heel means nothing anymore. The guy the office obviously want to be the guy is generally loathed or gets indifferent reactions so the evil boss guy gets cheers for making him look like a chump and with either ending people are kinda ok with the evil corporation winning but actually just dont really care? Whens Cesaro expected back?

Idk if i can watch raw again anytime soon. That was hard work and hell i still enjoyed a lot of it.

I didn't see RAW yet but it sounds like one of the more entertaining trainwrecks we've seen in a while. At least they managed to deliver on the rumours that Taker's opponent would be somebody not currently on the roster (as opposed to saying that Cena is injured and thus technically not on the roster, or firing Big Show for five minutes to take him off the roster when they announce the match). Although supposedly the challenge was vague enough for Shane to announce someone (i.e. Rock or Cena) to fight on his behalf?

I wonder how the companies that won't insure Rock to wrestle would react to this ... "yeah, he's gonna need coverage for one night, it's called 'Hell in a Cell' and a seven foot tall zombie is going to ram his face repeatedly into a steel mesh. But he'll be fine ... on the set first thing Monday morning!"

It wont be the Rock. Cena is updating his twitter everyday with some super human recovery to fight a seven foot tall zombie stooge in a steel mesh cage.

Of which Taker's in his home state for possibly the last match of his career, so he cant be anything other than a face but he'll be fighting for the bad guys?

I am kinda loving how much of a clusterfuck this is all being. I wonder if Russo was secretly hired.

I fell all asleep at 10 and only got through like the first 3 segments uploaded to watchwrestling

doesn't look like I missed much

ah fuck that, get Cena to fight someone else, I want Shane-O-Mac in the HIAC match. he's only 46, he could totally still go off the top of the cell through a bunch of tables without killing himself. probably

otm

and a reminder of how fun and grotesque it could get

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3r8uo0_shane-mcmahon-vs-kurt-angle-street-fight-king-of-the-ring-2001_sport

i watched most of raw to see if they'd clarify anything about shane o'mac vs undertaker so i could stop being so confused by the idea, a mostly regrettable decision but i did enjoy seeing the huge pop for vile heel roman reigns finally getting his comeuppance

omg the 2001 KOTR is one of the PPVs I remember sneaking out of bed to watch on a school night at the tender age of 10, during that initial romance with wrestling that I'm sure all young fans must experience where whole promos, segments, matches are just burned into your brain forever after.

so strange to watch it back now with context and realise that A) there never had been and never would be a WWE match that brutal ever again (maybe excepting the Cactus Jack / HHH stuff and B) there was nothing that 2000-2001 era Kurt Angle couldn't do. Technical exhibitions? Check. Big dramatic main-event brawls? Check. Truly and timelessly hilarious backstage comedy skits? Check. Fucking 110% insanse overblown garbage death-matches against non-wrestlers? CHECK. Dude was a fucking marvel, I know everyone goes on about this all the time but he'd literally debuted 3 years earlier!! Amazing. What a guy.

Greatest theme music, also. fuck man bring back Kurt Angle you fucks, give the guy the send-off that he deserves