Tom Cruise has got plenty of time on his hands at the moment.
― second dullest ILXor since 1929 (snoball), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 18:46 (twelve years ago) link
Couldn't you argue that the men and women who make Battlefield and Modern Combat and Call of Duty are making the world a demonstrably worse place? I think you could. Sometimes I wonder how they sleep at night. Sometimes, when I can't sleep at night, I play Call of Duty.
Tom Bissell piece on shooters & Spec Ops: The Line, worth reading...http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8157257/line-explores-reasons-why-play-shooter-games
― JCL, Thursday, 12 July 2012 16:39 (twelve years ago) link
g1
― Nhex, Friday, 13 July 2012 03:18 (twelve years ago) link
castlevania bloodlinesbutthole brothers: the openinga boy and his abortiongurglefest 9: browngurglesimple beans: fancy kitten hugsChocoholic breastmilkFloor club for menEpic FlowerThe Cavalcades of Sir Rudelman HorcrotchJust Some DudeFeather Tickle: Tickle the PickleUpside-Down Hedgehog VengeanceKlondike Explorer: Return of NumbnessPatriarch of Tushybutt KingdomCollect Stamp: The Stamp Collection Game for Collectors of Stamps and Stamp-like Collector's itemsFrantic ReadingLeisure Suit Larry 14: Sit at Home and Read a BookPorthole: The PortholeningPractice Makes PerfetcSponge: The Official Game of the MovieThirsty: The Search for WaterGalileo's TuxedoAmputee BattleBurning Sensation 12Progress Bar 3: 75%Slather (From the makers of Butter Lips)Sondlifect: The Word that Means NothingInternet Cat UploadMagic is Real: The Parent Convincing GameHeadband: The GameGo Outside And DIEDashboard SmashSmashBoardExcessively Hungry HippopotamiCalifornia TexasThe Blair Science ProjectCords vs. WiresCarrot Top's Fitness ProgramPhlegm Produce 2Babysitter BlastoffTrachea 800A Gentleman and a BentlemanDong SludgeWatermelon PregnancyNostrilfist 2: Nostrilfist's RevengeVarious Indian CuisinesSuper Mario BrothelsPaper Cut: DecapitationHailstorm: The Basement's AdventureSusan Goes to LiverpoolBoner JavelinHappy: The Shitty DwarfLoose Power CordHands Aren't FeetThe Man Who Killed Larry The Cable Guy (and his Subsequent Rise to Fame)Tooth in the Wrong PlaceWatching Mr. Belvedere: An Enthusiast's JourneyFlashing PicturesSalad Bowl SlipperooniFetus MouthMarvel vs. A Wooden LegGeneral Custard: A Pudding's StoryThe Pair of PlegicsDivorce BrigadeBridge Over MeatR.T.D.: Random Turtle DivisionFrench Fry and PotatoBen and the Last Name Debacle!The Last BojangleC.S.I. BedrockVapidiot 3: PalinSadman ForlorniaUpchuckleA Flair for the UniformSimple: A Game for BabiesCart B. 4: The HorseSnakewhipThe Lonely EyeballTriscuit FlambeCavalier WimbledonLarry King's JacksLarry King's Cup and BallLarry King's Wheel MakeI Want EarlMy First Tramp StampThe Computer Turn-Off Turn-OnAnnoying FriendPapier Machet Giraffe NeckOpaque WindowKitten DisembowelFreedom 3: AbortionTree 2: The Deciduous ProjectPalindrome 2: Emord NilapBeyond PuddingPages of FuryThe BlabberfestSweat SpotPuddle of DOOMCalamari: The Squiddening
― bamcquern, Friday, 13 July 2012 03:22 (twelve years ago) link
idgi but lol
― du. duplass. duplass mich. (goole), Friday, 13 July 2012 04:45 (twelve years ago) link
Tom Bissell lives in Portland now, I think, and I have issues with the part of his Extra Lives book where he goes on and on about how much he loved GTA4, a love that just so happened to coincide with his intake of mounds of blow, which could JUUUUUUUUST color his impressions a little.
― Steam Sale Jonesin' (kingfish), Friday, 13 July 2012 07:36 (twelve years ago) link
it's kinda amazing to me that after doing all that coke he was cool with sitting down for marathon GTA sessions in his livingroom
― Mordy, Friday, 13 July 2012 12:49 (twelve years ago) link
Kinda strikes me as undeniable proof that dude is hella boring
― This clam, stranded on someone’s floor, is trying to dig itself (forksclovetofu), Friday, 13 July 2012 14:13 (twelve years ago) link
but how can a drug abuser be boring yo???
― Nhex, Friday, 13 July 2012 14:31 (twelve years ago) link
ughhhh that bissell piece on spec ops the line is awful. his smarty pants hardman bullshit is fucking infuriating especially when there's a little picture of his stupid bearded lambchop-album-buying face down by the byline. fuck you bissell you are not elevating the discourse the right way and you make us all look bad.
― adam, Monday, 16 July 2012 15:56 (twelve years ago) link
smarty pants is not actually an insult.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 16 July 2012 15:57 (twelve years ago) link
Maybe, in the end, "blowing off steam" is the only kind of experience a shooter needs to enable. The shooter is merely a vent. OK. I suppose I can accept that. But I just went and looked into the vent of my apartment's air conditioner. You know what? It was filthy.
yeah it is
― adam, Monday, 16 July 2012 16:23 (twelve years ago) link
No, no it fucking isn't. What he is doing there is making a) a joke and b) a point at the same time. Either of these are largely out of the reach of most games journalists, it's nice that there's someone who can do both.
Also the article told me about things I didn't know about, and connected them to other things in a smart way - again that's just journalism, but it stands out.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 16 July 2012 16:33 (twelve years ago) link
The gentleman declines to answer, so Sam sticks his knife into the gentleman's clavicle. The gamer is then given an onscreen prompt to twirl around his controller's joystick, which in turn twirls around Sam's knife in the gentleman's wound. The screaming gentleman gives Sam the info he needs — and, suddenly, it's "moral choice" time, for Sam has to choose whether to kill or knock out his freshly tortured victim. Let's review: a moral choice — after an interactive torture sequence.
this is seriously fucked up.
― du. duplass. duplass mich. (goole), Monday, 16 July 2012 16:42 (twelve years ago) link
goole otm, what the hell
― PITILESS LIVE SHOW (DJP), Monday, 16 July 2012 16:47 (twelve years ago) link
i didn't think the article quite pushed all the way into the places i wanted it to go but like is the objection here that his metaphors are pretentious or that he called shooters filthy or what, because i thought that metaphor was serviceable and shooters are obviously filthy
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Monday, 16 July 2012 16:51 (twelve years ago) link
what is the joke? what is the point? a physical vent is dirty so maybe his psychological vent is too? great.
i acknowledge that games journalism is terrible but sticking some dumbass klosterman/simmons/blog narcissism into it isn't going to fix anything.
― adam, Monday, 16 July 2012 16:51 (twelve years ago) link
it's unfair to compare anyone to dfw, but i couldn't help but think of the lobster festival profile where he discusses some of the moral issues involved w/ eating lobster. one thing about the shooter article is that he makes ethical decisions but doesn't seem to implicate himself in them. whereas for dfw the ethics were always personal and collective, bissel kinda posits himself as a moral hero fighting for truth + justice. this is a guy btw who think GTA is the epitome of video gaming (and if you look at his list of *good* shooters, if you've played many of them you may notice that they don't really handle violence in a particularly sensitive way - they are just better designed aesthetically and ludically. which i guess makes it easier to enjoy them w/out feeling bad about yourself).
― Mordy, Monday, 16 July 2012 16:55 (twelve years ago) link
like if his answer for why ppl like video game violence is that it taps into reptilian brain consciousness and helps blow off steam - seems like a huge missed opportunity to get at some deeper things about american culture, gaming culture, etc. of course u could try to write a big piece that addresses those things and lack just as much substance. i didn't hate the article fwiw, i found it enjoyable in that superficial Bissel way where he clearly cares about these things but maybe isn't so ambitious about how he approaches writing about them.
― Mordy, Monday, 16 July 2012 16:57 (twelve years ago) link
bissel kinda posits himself as a moral hero fighting for truth + justice
Not really.
― JCL, Monday, 16 July 2012 16:59 (twelve years ago) link
The paragraph that JCL's quote above came from seems to implicate himself fairly well - not in a sense that he is railing against and/or trying to extricate himself, but I guess he doesn't do that so much?
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 16 July 2012 17:00 (twelve years ago) link
one thing about the shooter article is that he makes ethical decisions but doesn't seem to implicate himself in them.
the impression I had was that he spent the entire article asking "exactly how sick am I that I love these games?"
― PITILESS LIVE SHOW (DJP), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:01 (twelve years ago) link
yeah when i said "the places i wanted it to go" i meant that i want articles about this kind of thing to really be rigorous about extracting+describing the evil worm in the writer's soul. this kinda talked about it: my favorite line in the whole thing was "for me shooters aren't about blowing off steam; they're about taking in steam." i don't actually think that metaphor quite works but i get the idea. most of the article shies away from that. prolly cuz it's the single most unpleasant subject a human can address. then there's questions like "why do we want our puzzles to bleed and scream?" which he asks and immediately drops.
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:02 (twelve years ago) link
Videogame violence needs to be discussed in the correct context. They exist in world where (most non-vg playing) people watch the evening news, stories about the murders and rapes and crisis of REAL PEOPLE. Where TV and movies glorify violence using not shaded polygons but REAL PEOPLE. They exist in a world where we outspend every other nation on war and national defense. Blowing up REAL PEOPLE overseas.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:02 (twelve years ago) link
in the second half it just turns into a straight review of the game -- Terrifying Knife Guy and stuff -- which is fine, especially since even halfway decent game reviewing is so rare, but i think he sort of skips over the surface of all the dangerous stuff he brings up.
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:03 (twelve years ago) link
Blowing up REAL PEOPLE overseas.
with joysticks, from airconditioned basements
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:04 (twelve years ago) link
. then there's questions like "why do we want our puzzles to bleed and scream?" which he asks and immediately drops.
I don't think this is a question that can be answered outside of a psychology study
― PITILESS LIVE SHOW (DJP), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:04 (twelve years ago) link
sure, it is modest and probably smart of him to not try to be a psychologist. but i mean he's a writer. maybe i just want a little more hubris.
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:06 (twelve years ago) link
i don't know how much we really need to tease out the appeal of shooters--like, at what point in human history were games not about violence (some games, that is. maybe most)? we just have the tech to do it better now.
really i feel like the dominant mode of "smart" game criticism draws too much from pop psychology (like my point immediately above) (but we don't have a critical vocabulary with which to properly tackle these topics) (yet). like bissell is not far removed from gladwell in terms of intellectual rigor. that's my main objection. also his face.
― adam, Monday, 16 July 2012 17:06 (twelve years ago) link
lol adam
― PITILESS LIVE SHOW (DJP), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:07 (twelve years ago) link
xp Sure, but there is still a line between "I am aware of this and may support other people doing it" and "turn right thumbstick to make suspect scream"
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 16 July 2012 17:08 (twelve years ago) link
(that basically serves as a response to adam as well - The immense increase of popularity and profile of manshoots is definitely a new thing in the last decade or so)
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 16 July 2012 17:11 (twelve years ago) link
(and the realism is the actual connection between the two posts)
can we not use the term "manshoots", this is not ILTMI
― PITILESS LIVE SHOW (DJP), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:12 (twelve years ago) link
Throwing Bowser into a giant lake of fire is pretty fucked up
― polyphonic, Monday, 16 July 2012 17:14 (twelve years ago) link
not really, he's got a carapace
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:15 (twelve years ago) link
this is from 98 but has some interesting info if you have access to sciencedirect or some other journal database:
Dill KE, Dill JC. Video game violence: a review of the empirical literature. Aggression Violent Behavior.1998;3:407-428.
i'm looking for literature about violence in childhood play throughout history, no luck yet.
― adam, Monday, 16 July 2012 17:18 (twelve years ago) link
"Although youngsters would be denied admittance to the latest Steven Segal movie without parental supervision, they are able to enter any department or toy store in America and purchase graphically violent games like Mortal Kombat or Killer Instinct without censure."
― adam, Monday, 16 July 2012 17:21 (twelve years ago) link
thinking of non-violent videogames now, of which I guess the historical standard is Tetris? maybe Pong?
― PITILESS LIVE SHOW (DJP), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:22 (twelve years ago) link
It gets easier to find them as you go back to before they were big bu$ine$$.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:24 (twelve years ago) link
i remember Nickelodeon had a show called 5W or something (reference to Who What Where When Why questions of journalism) where kids did 'investigative reporting' and one of the episodes was about violence in video games and showed footage from Doom
― Mordy, Monday, 16 July 2012 17:25 (twelve years ago) link
doom seems so quaint now, like, these are demons from hell! fucking shoot them!
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:29 (twelve years ago) link
my parents pretty much let me play whatever but once i was playing wolf3D and my dad stood behind me and watched me shoot nazis for a while and then launched into this impromptu dramatic scene where he played both the dead nazi's wife and the dead nazi's son, who was waiting up that night for his father to come home because he'd made him some kind of present but his father was late coming home and it was way past his bedtime and his mother was saying just go to bed dear you'll see him in the morning etc
parenting
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:30 (twelve years ago) link
nazis tho! i mean if you can't shoot nazis whom can you shoot
i guess that's the point
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:31 (twelve years ago) link
it's also hard to extricate violence from conflict in terms of games. in pong you are in direct conflict with your opponent (or simulated opponent if you are playing agains the fiendish AI) and while you are not committing acts of violence upon his or her avatar in-game i am willing to bet that a lot of the neurochemical reactions are the same ones that go down when you pop some motherfucker with a sick headshot in call of duty.
so then i guess one could ask why pong 2012 (virtua tennis?) isn't selling 40 billion copies.
― adam, Monday, 16 July 2012 17:32 (twelve years ago) link
hah awesome.
Yeah im trying to think of a non-violent videogame and it's just not coming to my head. The Monkey Island series is pretty non-violent.
Maybe that's what we get with a medium invented on military equipment developed for World War II.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:34 (twelve years ago) link
Tiny wings. Orbital. Trainyard (omg train crashes though!). Does Fez have baddies in? Violent ones?
― ledge, Monday, 16 July 2012 17:39 (twelve years ago) link
most adventure games are mostly nonviolent, especially the myst strain; there are lots of complaints to make about dumb ol myst (tho not about riven which is that genre's one stone masterpiece) but i always thought a lot of the vitriol directed its way by Real Gamers was connected to its lack of violence
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:40 (twelve years ago) link
a few years back i wrote up a short scene set around the kitchen table of a generic enemy from the first level of Castlevania III. he gathers his immediate family, along with his best friend who works in the second level of Donkey Kong Country, to deliver the bad news - Trevor is approaching Dracula's castle, and he is rumored to be very good at Castlevania III. death is a certainty. they then go on to have a frank and rewarding discussion about the inevitability of death and the meaning of service.
― your friend, (Z S), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:40 (twelve years ago) link
hahahahahaha
― a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Monday, 16 July 2012 17:43 (twelve years ago) link