meh. the scenario for a juggernaut built to win many championships is available (but only in miami, and i suppose to a lesser extent chicago, tho i don't see how they get all three).
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 19:40 (fourteen years ago) link
it's not really feasible in miami for various reasons
― contl;drizer (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 May 2010 19:40 (fourteen years ago) link
i.e. you're assuming that there's a team just willing to take all of the heat's crap off their hands for next to nothing
― contl;drizer (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 May 2010 19:41 (fourteen years ago) link
i feel bad for non-magical unicorns
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Saturday, 15 May 2010 19:42 (fourteen years ago) link
well, yeah, via a sign-and-trade that includes beasley. why, aside from that, is the scenario infeasible?
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 19:42 (fourteen years ago) link
YES I ALSO FEEL BADLY FOR NON-MAGICAL UNICORNS.
ALL UNICORNS SHOULD BE MAGICAL. IT IS UNFAIR AND WRONG FOR ONE TO BE OTHERWISE.
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 19:43 (fourteen years ago) link
- both lebron and wade would want to play the rest of their primes with each other, which seems nice in theory but means that both guys are severely limiting the career numbers that they could put up, and both likely feel that they could win a championship w/o the other -- i.e. getting their cake and eating it too
- someone would need to take the heat's mid-round pick, also next for nothing, because if the heat draft someone in the first round, they have to pay him regardless
- someone would need to take james jones and his awful contract off their hands, also for next to nothing
― contl;drizer (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 May 2010 19:45 (fourteen years ago) link
it just, it doesn't make sense -- they're gonna end up with wade & bosh and that should be okay
― contl;drizer (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 May 2010 19:46 (fourteen years ago) link
i don't see those as major impediments. i mean, there are 1,000,000,000 nonsense articles speculating on james and wade's frame-of-mind and ego-issues, but it's all unsupported (or, it's supported by cherry-picking circumstantial evidence of the author's choosing). if the three of them want to form a dynasty, this is the path to accomplishing it -- i don't know if they want that, but it seems like winning championships is largely why stars play pro sports (aside from getting paid, which isn't an issue here, since we're talking about max contracts). i'm sure there are ways to give away the mid-round pick (someone will want a draft pick, if nothing is asked in return). i can't really evaluate the jones contract -- maybe that's an insurmountable impediment.
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 19:52 (fourteen years ago) link
and yes, i'd also like a magic unicorn.
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 19:53 (fourteen years ago) link
not one of the non-magic types. those are worthless.
i think most people agree that players like wade and lebron wouldn't want to play together for their careers because each wants to be "the guy" -- it's not like baseball where everyone gets up 4 times a game, or football where a star rb & star wr can coexist or even like kobe & shaq where one guy is the outside player and one guy is the inside player -- unless both lebron and wade say "i will forgive my chances to reach a ton of individual statistical plateaus and win a few championships myself for the opportunity to maybe win 4 or 5 titles" then there's really no way such a pairing could happen
i think maaaaaaaaaaybe if wade hadn't won before, there might be a slight chance that they would do this crazy dynasty agreement, but if you're wade, wouldn't you say to yourself "i don't need another me, i need another shaq" (i.e. chris bosh)
― contl;drizer (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 May 2010 19:59 (fourteen years ago) link
i think i'd say "the players on the celtics dynasty are considered amazing," i've won championships, i'm young, and i want to win a lot more. how do i best do that?
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:01 (fourteen years ago) link
daniel i love ya but you're nuts--the idea of two top-5 backcourt/wing players pairing up in their primes is essentially unheard of. nba teams need a pecking order and i can't imagine either james or wade happily deferring to the other.
if lebron really wanted to go this route chicago is still the answer because he'd have clear alpha dog status over rose. there's no choosing between wade and james--and wade is the guy with the nba championship.
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:01 (fourteen years ago) link
it's v. hard to find a comparable situation because james and wade do really, really similar things offensively
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:02 (fourteen years ago) link
now maybe there are game-dynamics that would make a pairing of the three stars (or even james/wade) unrealistic. maybe they both need the ball in their hands in most of the offensive series to be effective. but i just don't see why that's true.
btw, kareem/magic; kobe/o'neal; duncan/robinson; any number of celtics pairings. top-tier stars coexist all the time (tho maybe not star nos. 1 -- 2 in the league).
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:02 (fourteen years ago) link
kareem/magic and kobe/o'neal worked because it was a guard-center combo
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:03 (fourteen years ago) link
david robinson was not a top-tier player at the time
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:04 (fourteen years ago) link
garnett, pierce and allen had never won anything by themselves, and all were in the final 5 or so years of their careers -- wade has already won and i think lebron thinks he can win without being part of some nuclear dynasty -- i think you're overestimating the allure of winning 5+ championships
― contl;drizer (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:04 (fourteen years ago) link
drats, you may be right (for the "both do similar things offensively" notion).
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:04 (fourteen years ago) link
let's just agree that the 1980s celtic frontcourt, for example, is something that will never, ever happen again
cad otm -- wade & lebron are seriously essential the same players -- it's not even like one is carmelo anthony who pretty much just scores and would actually be the perfect second player to lebron/wade
― contl;drizer (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:05 (fourteen years ago) link
i think you're overestimating the allure of winning 5+ championships
i might be but that's shocking to me. they'll earn the most one can earn. they'll have hall-of-fame careers no matter whom they play for. i can't see why winning championships isn't occupying the top spot on their priority list, perhaps after the first two items i mentioned.
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:06 (fourteen years ago) link
wade and carmelo would destroy the league. never even thought about that.
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:06 (fourteen years ago) link
wade often functions as a de facto point guard, tho i know noting that isn't necessarily helping my case.
carmello isn't a FA this year (or even next, i don't think).
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:07 (fourteen years ago) link
probably right.
xxp yeah he does and his options are basically shoot sick 3s over someone, drive hard, or find a shooter to kick to. sounds familiar imo.
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:08 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah i know melo isn't out there just think it would be sick
― call all destroyer, Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:06 PM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark
the reason why carmelo is so good on team usa but will prob never win a title as the #1 alpha dog is cuz on team usa he can just lay back as a "second tier player" and just destroy who ever is guarding him cuz you can't divert your best guy to him
― contl;drizer (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:08 (fourteen years ago) link
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:06 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
so does wade, is the problem
― contl;drizer (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:09 (fourteen years ago) link
lebron obv
i wonder why carmelo isn't a FA now, btw? odd coincidence that 3 of the top 4 picks in that draft are all suddenly free-agents, but melo isn't. (he was in that draft, right?)
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:09 (fourteen years ago) link
but lebron is much bigger. he can do different things.
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:10 (fourteen years ago) link
melo will be a FA the year after, along with chris paul
― contl;drizer (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:10 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah i could see melo winning a title in his paul pierce years with a dynamic younger team around him where he can just do his thing and go off for 30 every once in a while
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:10 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah melo has a player option for 11/12 that he should probably not take
there are minute differences b/w wade and lebron -- wade is a better jump shooter, lebron is a better rebounder -- but they serve the same function
― contl;drizer (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:11 (fourteen years ago) link
lebron COULD do different things but he doesn't right now
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:11 (fourteen years ago) link
dude needs to really woodshed and develop his game
really what the heat's problem is that for as touted as this free agency class is, it has a bunch of the same players -- wade and lebron are both wing players, and then joe johnson and rudy gay are wing players who are slightly worse -- bosh & amare are both slightly built PFs who can score like crazy but are prob a bit suspect on the defensive end. if there was a true center in this class, or a true point guard (chris paul), then the idea of a three-player dynasty would be much more feasible
― contl;drizer (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:13 (fourteen years ago) link
i guess yao could opt out
― contl;drizer (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:14 (fourteen years ago) link
otm
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:14 (fourteen years ago) link
can't see amare going anywhere at this point (unless the suns conduct a fire-sale for reasons having nothing to do with on-the-court success or chemistry)
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:15 (fourteen years ago) link
don't want yao.
too fragile.
old news, but still:
"Before we agreed to terms, LeBron and I had a couple conversations," Wade said. "I can't recall exactly what we said, but the gist of it was we wanted to give ourselves the flexibility and the option to play together."A lot of times in this league, players usually wind up going where they can get the most money. We're both blessed within that area. We've made a lot of money. So we wanted to base our decision on two things, the organization and the ability to win a title. And that's what we'll do. When the season is over, we plan to sit down and talk about it."I'm not saying it will happen. But I'm intrigued by the idea."
"A lot of times in this league, players usually wind up going where they can get the most money. We're both blessed within that area. We've made a lot of money. So we wanted to base our decision on two things, the organization and the ability to win a title. And that's what we'll do. When the season is over, we plan to sit down and talk about it.
"I'm not saying it will happen. But I'm intrigued by the idea."
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:17 (fourteen years ago) link
i was actually looking for articles about whether their styles work together. found only the linked article atm.
very cute espn analyst jemele hill doesn't like the lebron-wade pairing, so the option is now off-the-table.
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:20 (fourteen years ago) link
finally i found the expert analysis i was looking for:
yall stupid Lebron James and D-wade are best friend and they will play together one day no one better cause they play the same but wade got a ring and james dnt
there. now please, let's put this to rest and resolve the 2012 presidential election next.
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 15 May 2010 20:28 (fourteen years ago) link