i have something to say about the offseason THE 2016 NBA OFFSEASON

don't think many other coaches have won so much with so few high picks

vogel might not have the best offensive talent, but its still misused. the pacers were 24th in ortg this season

about what i would expect from a team that had to play a ton of mins w dudes like ellis and mahinmi!

anyway this apparently has legs, the pacers are nuts to let vogel go

otm

indy has zero guys who can get to he cup

Yeah I was thinking about that watching stuckey and Ellis trying to manufacture points in those last two games and just felt sorry for their guard rotation. That team really overperformed for basically a collection of whatever flotsam they could gather around pg as a transition from the hibbert-west-etc version of that team, but yeah bird really seems to believe in coach shelf life- did it to himself after all

they have a couple really good pieces in george and turner but u need a starter than can penetrate and play make to pair with them, george has decent playmaking skills but its not like hes harden where hes good enough to be the only guy on the court filling that role, which explains why he takes so many midrange shots he often beats his man but cant get past the second level, which wld be a perfect time w the defense scrambling to pass off to yr second driving guy but instead theres like george hill

Monta can get in there but he is a pretty dumb decision maker and has cut back on his drives big time.

ya prime monta wldve been good but hes p cooked

Prime monta pre-moped was so fun. Then he wasn't.

pre moped monta playing w the intelligence he did in dallas wldve been so good, also if his prime was now when the league is more in tune w his skills

Just a few variables really

love to get to the cup

gotta... get that cup

[sees girl reading Getting to the Cup]

"Ah I love that book. The way he just [clenches fist] gets to that fricken cup."

By "the cup" I presume you all are referring to the "basketball ring", correct?

thats the one, the thing everybodys trying to get to

Do the best teams at putting the ball into the basketball ring get championship finger rims?

they get all the finger rims with the glistening stones and valuable ore

Something random I've been wondering is how many great players go on to have a non-terrible post-playing career in the NBA (as GMs or coaches)? McHale, Bird, and Jerry West are the ones I can think of immediately, but then we a much longer list of mopes (led by Jordan -- also Magic's coaching stint failed miserably) (and I have to include the transcendent Chris Mullin too ;_;) who've been forgettable. Do people still rate Joe Dumars?

ya seems like most good coaches were scrappy overachievers

dumars is so hard for me to rate as a gm, clearly an amazing job early followed by disaster (and i'm not really holding darko against him). generally across sports it's been kind of understood that great players make awful coaches, that yr mediocre or average lifers become the great coaches. there are exceptions to this and it seems like there are more in basketball than baseball or football. i'm sure i'm forgetting someone but i can't think of anyone who's a pantheon great who managed a great career as a coach, frank robinson is the closest the comes to mind right now but i don't think i'd say he was ever a great manager as much as he had a long career as a manager. maybe lenny wilkens? w/ evaluating talent it seems to be an entirely different thing w/ jerry west probably second only to auerbach (maybe first idk) and elway seemingly doing a good job in denver. even there though you have yr obv cases of greats who failed eg elgin baylor.

larry legend?

bird is great both coaching and gming

lol xp

larry a freak

when will rodman get his chance at the reins

when the Nevada Burning Men get into the league

better gm than coach right? though yeah at a minimum a good coach. i was gonna add an asterisk to mchale as a great player who did well as a coach (better than as a gm at least) in that he wasn't the best player on the celtics, he wasn't the superstar the other guys had to be afraid of (and apparently him and bird didn't really get along that great right?), but bird was totally that superstar asshole, not as much as jordan but far more than magic, and that kind of 'why can't you do this? i could, this shit is easy, you're a failure' kind of attitude is supposedly why greats can't make the transistion but it didn't hamper bird. maybe his experience w/ bobby knight inoculated him.

maybe a better coach that gm, imo he was a legit great coach, like that wildly overmatched pacers team took two off of jordans last team and then did it again the next year v shaq/kobe, had jalen (who never made an allstar team!) playing like an mvp

yeah he was v good. you know who was a crap gm and is a good coach... Kerr

McHale is a HOFer! (As is Dumars, which kind of surprised me.)

maybe his experience w/ bobby knight inoculated him.

he didn't really have an experience w/knight, left iu before bball started iirc

http://i.imgur.com/sE4tBVU.jpg

hahawow

you know who was a crap gm and is a good coach... Kerr

He wasn't great, but I don't think he was that bad:

http://valleyofthesuns.com/2010/06/16/a-look-back-at-steve-kerrs-tenure-as-suns-gm/

kerr had to deal w/ owner interference iirc. mchale obv a great player just not quite that freakish level like bird/magic/jordan. it's usually those guys who aren't able to relate to anything less than greatness. like imagine kobe coaching.

i thought knight was part of why he left.

www.insidethehall.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/001306423.jpg

vogel gone

rip

wonder where hell end up houston maybe

:////

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqnfTwTg9Yo

bird fired carlisle toooo

larry legend more ruthless to vogel in these presser quotes than he was to dominique wilkins it's goddam mean

ah well, it had to happen.

bird a vicious man (not a bird as his name wld imply)

vogel would be a coaching upgrade for quite a few teams

he seems like a good coach but the pacers could theoretically hire a better coach (or a worse one!)

based on the average coach prob be worse, but on the other hand bird is good

coaching quality is pretty high right now across the board, there's only a few left that are actively hurting their teams chances

larry's quotes from this presser will be taken out of context to feed that narrative that bird is a jerk. but you gotta keep in mind how bad vogel was at offense, and i think letting him go was warranted. maybe a bit premature - and it looks bad for bird because the team has overperformed - but it was going to be necessary one day.

defensive coordinator dan burke has been with the pacers since 1998 and he's now outlasted 5 head coaches. bird suggested that he will stick around and continue to run the defense.

bird also stated that he won't hire mchale and doesn't yet have a new coach lined up.