I do think suggest bans should be temporary btw

Well yeah, that's why I think the whole suggest ban function should be deleted.

the function isn't the problem, was the point tuomas.

fix people or adjust/disable function. one of these is easier than the other.

but in the long term, it doesn't solve the problem, maaaahn.

did we have a banning problem before the new era? do the mods find the suggest ban stats useful? (serious questions)

I wouldn't have nothing against the "suggest ban" function the way I remember it was originally introduced... I thought the idea of the function merely was to help notify the mods when someone is doing stuff that's against ILX guidelines. But then later on it was revealed that enough suggest bans leads to an automatic and permanent banning, whether or not the banning is based on some real bannable offense or merely people not liking some poster or his opinions, and this I think is quite problematic. If the problem is that fine tuning "suggest ban" would require extra coding that admins haven't got the time to do (which is perfectly understandable), then I'd suggest the whole function should be removed, at least until there is time to fine tune it. I'm not very knowledgeable with coding, but I assume that removing things from the code (as opposed to adding new things to it) shouldn't take much extra work.

suggest ban stats need to be public including the identities of the suggesters - if the system cant be useful it can at least be even more entertaining

I wouldn't have nothing against the "Tuomas" function the way I remember it was originally introduced... I thought the idea of the function merely was to help notify the mods when someone is doing crazy Finnish stuff that's against ILX guidelines. But then later on it was revealed that enough Finnish stuff leads to automatic and permanent confusion, whether or not the Finn is based on some real person or someone merely posting from a phone booth while sitting in a shopping cart. And this I think is quite problematic. If the problem is that fine tuning "Tumoas" would require extra coding that admins haven't got the time to do (which is perfectly understandable), then I'd suggest the whole function should be removed, at least until there is time to fine tune it. I'm not very knowledgeable with coding, but I assume that removing things from the code (as opposed to adding new things to it) shouldn't take much extra work.

Why are you suggest banning Geir anyway? The guy is always polite and never brings any personal beef to the board. Is it because he has "wrong" opinions on music? I don't think the idea of suggest bans was to get people like that banned. Or at least I hope so.

― Tuomas, Monday, January 19, 2009 3:42 AM Bookmark

Because I have no love for trolls, especially ones as persistent as him.

What's your definition of troll then? Someone who has odd opinions about music?

I hate the title of this thread, so I opened it, and your opinions/advice suck donkey dickles :)))

What's your definition of troll then? Someone who has odd opinions about music?

― Tuomas, Monday, January 19, 2009 11:47 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

A troll is a fearsome member of a race of creatures from Norse mythology. Originally more or less the Nordic equivalents of giants, although often smaller in size, the different depictions have come to range from the fiendish giants – similar to the ogres of England (also called Trolls at times, see Troller's Gill) – to a devious, more human-like folk of the wilderness, living underground in hills, caves or mounds. In the Faroe islands, Orkney and Shetland tales, trolls are called trows, adopted from the Norse language when these islands were settled by Vikings.

Nordic literature, art and music from the romantic era and onwards has adapted trolls in various manners – often in the form of an aboriginal race, endowed with oversized ears and noses. From here, as well as from Scandinavian fairy tales such as Three Billy Goats Gruff, trolls have achieved international recognition, and in modern fantasy literature and role-playing games, trolls are featured to the extent of being stock characters.

Norse Blorbius

ilx has a longstanding policy of no trolls. giants and orcs yes. it may seem a little harsh but the I Love Trolls board died of neglect back in the greenspun days.

btw I don't think geir is a troll and I think it's kinda bullshit to sb him, but on the other hand, he is responsible for so many poll threads that surely some cruel and arbitrary punishment would be looked on with approval by Almighty God

I do think suggest bans should be temporary btw

I think Geir can be irritating but he's ultimately harmless, and I don't think he really fits the profile of a troll. I do hope people aren't actively suggest banning posters with "wrong" (but harmless) opinions, because in the end there'd be just people with "right" opinions left, and that would be boring.

Tuomas I'm pretty sure that every time you restate that opinion somebody SB's you

i don't SB people for having 'wrong' opinions, but because they express them in an irritating way

have never SB'd geir btw, but i don't really pay any attention to him

People would be more careful about sugbanning if they suffered something negative each time they did one.

It's the ol' "this is going to hurt you a lot more than it hurts me" principle.

i don't SB people for having 'wrong' opinions, but because they express them in an irritating way

And you really expressing opinions in an irritating way is something that should lead to banning?

it seems to me that if someone is in some way impacting your ability to enjoy ilx then i believe you are at complete liberty to suggest ban to your hearts content. if nobody else agrees then you're merely an ineffective voice in the wilderness. so your little personal beef will probably get nowhere. if someone gets to 50 sb's, they've done a bit more than disagree with people.

why don't you, tuomas, enlighten us all as to reasons you think someone should use the suggest ban button.

Well, preferably it shouldn't be used at all. We used to have guidelines on what sort of behaviour leads to yellow carding or banning. I thought those guidelines were pretty good, they included stuff like personal harassment, flooding the board, hate speech, and so on. They did not include "expressing ones opinions in an irritating way". If posters should be banned for being irritating or for "impacting your ability to enjoy ILX", then I think 90% of ILX would've been banned at some point. Even if in in practice few people have gotten enought suggest bans to get actually banned, in principle, everytime you suggest ban someone, what you're saying is, "This person should be permanently banned for doing this". And I do hope most of ILX is tolerant enough not to think that saying something irritating is a big enough reason for permanent banning. Because if we got rid of all those posters who may irritate some other posters, this board would be boring as hell.

And I do hope most of ILX is tolerant enough not to think that saying something irritating is a big enough reason for permanent banning.

not everyone uses SB for the same reason as me tuomas and i wouldn't expect them to - don't quote me as if they do

Not everyone, yeah, but I've read enough comments in other threads to gather that some people are using SB for minor reasons that would've never lead to banning in old ILX.

so basically, you don't think suggest bans should be used on posters who, for example, state the exact same opinion over and over and over and over again with no variation and no attempt to engage in a conversation?

What do you mean "no attempt to engage in a conversation"? All of my posts in this thread have been responses to other posts. Or, when you say "engaging in a conversation" do you actually mean "changing ones opinion"? But you are right that I have probably repeated my opinion on this too many times, so I'll stop that now.

http://thearroyoseco.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/fireworks.jpg

Geir is worse than any troll. Ban ban ban.

dunno what tuomas is worried about.

Geir is not a troll. I do not want Geir to be permabanned.

ILX is not yr "no girls allowed" clubhouse

not to disrupt this most recent storm in a teacup, but just for the sake of realism, id like to mention that a grand total of two people have been actually SB'ed since this went into effect, and one of them has been given a second chance. what people seem to be missing is that A) the only people who are managing to get SB'ed are people that are incapable (or more likely, unwilling) to recognize that they are, in fact, trolling. B) everyone that is high up on the SB list is fully aware that they infuriate other ILX posters on a regular basis, and has been given ample warning about the fact that they are getting SB'ed. truth is, they just dont care enough to try to make concessions to make other people not irate.

as tom noted above, he and i were both vocally opposed to SB's in the beginning (there was other dissent and worry within the mods as well, btw). the truth is that as far as i can see, nothing negative has actually occurred due to the SB system.

Really, the only negative I see so far is that some people seem to be making their suggest-banning a self-fulfilling prophecy by endlessly worrying about suggest banning.

this is pretty much beyond talking about at this point but as much as i find the suggest ban function a hilarious and welcome addition to ILX's code, its a completely backwards answer to something that a lot of ppl still think is an issue.

iirc it came out of the discussion here: moderation request: democratic bans

so thanks for adding it Keith but unfortunately as we saw on Friday some mods still like to play cowboy and go on banning sprees on ppl who NO ONE WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT AT ALL AND WEREN'T DOING ANYTHING

also I do think suggest bans should be temporary btw

A lot of folks on this thread said that Louis (or anynone) shouldn't be permabanned due to SBs though. And the suggest ban function has been in work only a few months. The way the system seems to work now means that other posters will almost inevitably get banned in time. Should we wait until some people who are considered less irritating than Louis and Deeznuts get banned before some changes are made into the code?

(x-post)

Should we wait until some people who are considered less irritating than Louis and Deeznuts get banned something worth complaining about actually happens before some changes are made into the code?

hey just thought id help you out by clarifying a little there for you

but you know hey it has been a whole couple of days since we had a many hundred post thread complaining about some terrible ilx crisis that hasnt really happened so good on you and keep it up.

Well, the way I see it is like this: should ILX have some guidelines to avoid certain unwanted things from happening? Or should those guidelines be made up only after the thing has already happened?

Also, if you read the thread I linked to in the post above, "something worth complaining" already happened. LJ got banned due to SBs and many folks complained it shouldn't have happened. 13 people (against 12) voted to say that they find SBs useless.

(x-post)

tumoas your perseverance is both annoying and admirable but mostly annoying-- guess what i just sb'd you

tuomas shld choose hope over fear

13 people (against 12) voted to say that they find SBs useless

all 25 people on ilx have spoken, and a very slim majority are against suggest bans

love this thread

and yet double that number voted to permaban louis and deeznuts

ILX is not yr "no girls allowed" clubhouse

tbh in this era of invite-only sub-boards it's hard to know what is right

13 people (against 12) voted to say that they find SBs useless

all 25 people on ilx have spoken, and a very slim majority are against suggest bans

I think a bigger majority might be for temporary permabans instead of permanent ones, but apparently polling this is forbidden.

so hard x-post

tbh in this era of invite-only sub-boards it's hard to know what is right

― Bondzilla vs Mechaholmes (blueski), Tuesday, January 20, 2009 6:28 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^ we don't have these any more

http://www.idiomsbykids.com/taylor/mrtaylor/class20022003/idioms/idioms2003/Make%20A%20Mountain%20Out%20Of%20A%20Male%20Hill.jpg

What is a temporary permaban?

it's better than my equivalent attempt at finnish would be, so i'm not going to call it.

ILX is not yr "no girls allowed" clubhouse

tbh in this era of invite-only sub-boards it's hard to know what is right

― Bondzilla vs Mechaholmes (blueski), Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:28 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

everyone is invited~

i think in certain circumstances there are firm grounds for making them permanent

please elaborate.

wtf?

you couldnt have started a new thread?

Working on some code

10 Print "SBd You for That"
20 Goto 10

even ur code is old & tired man

Just offering to help.

time was you'd have come back fighting from that. time was.

^