should ilxors be tempbanned for taking their beefs to other social media? (twitter/fbook/myspace/etc)?

absolutely not

Oh, good. A place to finally say this:

darraghmac, say someone starts an argument in a pub, and one person chooses, instead of having a massive row in the pub and dragging everyone into it, to go home and complain about the argument in their own house, to the 2 or 3 people hanging about their kitchen.

If you then follow that person home, and hang around outside their house, eavesdropping on their conversations in the hopes that they will say to their housemate "oh god, I just had the worst argument in the pub, X is jerk" 1) do you get to complain about what you heard while eavesdropping at their kitchen window? 2) if you then run back to the pub to tell everyone "this is what Y said about me! isn't that TERRIBLE?" in order to start another huge row about it, does that make you more or less of a jerk than the person who chose to turn away and just go home?

Oh my god, it's terrible that I huffed "ugh, poster X is the worst" to 5 Cornish enthusiasts (and Four Tet) in my twitter feed! This is the seriously worst thing in the history of ILX, and this means I completely deserve the pile-ons where people discuss my mental health and compare me to a woman who created an entire false identity in order to con posters out of money.

ilxors should be banned for going to myspace.com

If it means less ugly stuff on ILX proper I'd rather they did take it elsewhere. Not sure ILX should be modding what people do on Twitter as long as it stays there.

three-week ban for farting in lifts imo

otm

i hear reddit's looking for traffic

secrete beef subreddit

gee in what ways is twitter not like your personal kitchen in your personal house

lmao

an unprotected twitter account isn't your kitchen, wcc, you can't make charges against someone there without fear of their being challenged. lol xpost

wcc otm

yes

hi velko

feel like calling mordy out by twitter handle was nagl, if youre gonna take beef outside the walls dont use names is a good rule of thumb imho

velkome

sending money to mordy right now

Talking generally here, I think it's kind of rude*. Not so much on Twitter, where things rapidly disappear, but certainly in a blog situation where the subject may not have right of reply, or be able to challenge the way they're being portrayed. Especially if that person wasn't being actively malicious in the first place. There's a lot to be said for keeping fights in one place.

Should they be banned? Probably not, unless the offboard posts are being actively threatening, libellous, contain their real world address or are creepy in some other way. The Twitter post that kicked this off wasn't exactly great form but doesn't really deserve a ban, or a clusterfuck of this magnitude.

*Obviously loads of people are kind of rude in hundreds of different ways every day on ILX.

it's ocean avenue

Just for the records, I didn't actually mention Mordy by name until *after* he started @-ing me on twitter, trying to bring the beef into my actual twitterstream, when I failed to respond to 3 days of clusterfucking on ILX.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

you could have just been the bigger man of course

could someone point me to the thread(s) that spawned this discussion so that I may be fully informed when I vote? thx

Time was someone would've teed off on "trying to bring the beef into my actual twitterstream," now it's all beefs this and social media that.

I have just looked through my tweetstream. My exact original tweet which tipped this off was complaining about "A Mansplainer". He took that and ran with it.

I took a weekend's break from ILX, came back and he was still running with it on ILX. When he brought it into my actual tweetstream, I decided I didn't have to put up with it any more.

http://toptvcops.com/09b642f0.jpg

no tweets amended or deleted?

no, but yes to the reverse

wcc, feel like u have a somewhat inflated sense of ilx clusterfucks concerning u, probably due to the sensible recourse of trying not to read them. pretty sure there were not three days of clusterfucks prior - mordy mentioned u were tweeting about him on the "button" thread and it wasn't really discussed until andrew farrell was needling him on some other thread a couple of days later iirc

so, ban mordy? i'm in

^^^boom

If I discovered that someone on ILX had taken a disagreement with me to another publicly-accessible online venue rather than a) hashing it out with me personally like a grounded adult or b) dropping it altogether (again, like a grounded adult), there's a good chance that I would be enraged beyond my ability to articulate. But that might just be me, as I'm one of the few that still values a modicum of firewalling between my varied online haunts (and the respective level of biographical info I choose to divulge on each).

Ban nobody in this fucking instance

wcc its unfair of you to call out posters on twitter by tagging them then not allow them to respond and turn it back on them. You shouldn't have done that to me or any of the others.

oh and you had also done the same thing on the poll thread.

http://www.pcrm.org/images/media/psa/sack_your_old_lunch.jpg

Just posted this on MySpace, come at me bro.

ilx beef week

of course wcc or anyone else shouldn't be banned, we're all grown-ups here. (in theory etc)

if you tag someone while talking about them its hardly eavesdropping. You were abusing people publicly and you really expect them not to be angry at you doing that??

whenever i bring negative attention on myself on ilx, i try to take a breath and remind myself that none of it would happen if i hadn't posted in a particular way, or especially if i hadn't posted at all, and that occasionally having people say mean things to/about me is the cost of doing business, especially if business is having somewhere to mouth off on a daily basis and occasionally risk hurting someone else's feelings. lotta bruised egos, very few serious wounds, it's like a playground where things can get a little rough but very rarely does anything really need to be done besides maybe sending someone home with a note.

I deleted a bunch of tweets today because some asshole decided to link directly to them, and every time someone does that, I get a dozen weirdoes trying to follow me. But my Friday afternoon "argh, they've ruined my stupid Friday afternoon thread" tweets appear to be all there in stream of consciousness glory.

It's weird reading old tweets like that, though. I guess I can kind of see how stuff which is all "argh, whoa, I just ate a sandwich, argh, this is the worst!" stream of consciousness at the time reads differently if you're reading it removed in time and place, it seems a lot angrier or more emotional if you are reading these things as permanent records, rather than transient emotional states.

It serves a very different purpose than ILX does, and taking it out of context seems disingenuous.

Over the past year or so, since - and I discussed this on the sandbox last year - the emotions generated by an ILX clusterfuck actually drove me to seek psychological help (Not proud of it, not ashamed of it, not trying to ~manipulate~ anyone by bringing it up, just stating, this was a thing that happened. Sorry for being a human being who is affected by things.) I've tried to keep to a strict policy that if someone on an ILX thread starts getting personal towards me, I leave the thread, immediately. This sometimes feels really really unfair, especially if it's a thread that I've started - but it's for my own wellbeing. So it is what it is.

Sometimes I go to my "kitchen" and have a rant about how unfair it is. But that is what it is, a rant in mine own kitchen. If you come in my kitchen, you sometimes hear me ranting. And then I have a cup of tea and listen to Four Tet remixes and things are OK again. But to take that rant and post it to ILX like "this is the representation of WCC and what she is like all the time, as an ILX poster" - that's way more of a dick move IMO than having a rant in one's kitchen.

having a rant in one's public kitchen with how many followers? In which you say 'here is a representation of x and what they are like all the time as an ilx poster'

http://www.livejournal.com/

but its not in your own kitchen when you tag that person and they and all of your followers can see you having a go at them. Cant you see why that upsets people?

I think it's probably pretty good to leave a thread if it's upsetting and have a rant about it in the kitchen or on fb or in a blog post or whatever you feel. However, Twitter is a public social media service and whether the point is to tell people and get some feedback or you just want to yell into a void that people will see, you're tweeting something people can read and can respond to. Not going to get into who is a bigger dick because honestly I don't care, but it's not the same as someone stalking you back to your home irl and listening in on your kitchen rants.

Sorry for being a human being who is affected by things.

apology accepted

AG, I did not tag Mordy until AFTER he had started going at me on my twitter. I don't mean to be "he started it" but until that point, I had not used his name.

And for the record, AG, I blocked *you* from twitter because you would not stop posting at me. Multiple times in a row, multiple times a day, to the point where my tweet stream was nothing but you going on about a poll I had already told you (several times) that I did not want to participate in.

Asking someone multiple times, after they have already said no, is not likely to make them participate. It is likely to piss them off, and not want to interact with you at all.

I don't dislike you, AG, I think most of the time you're a quite reasonable guy. But when you swamp my social media (like, look at my last.fm wall for your wall of text repeat posting, and I've cleared a lot of your comments out) to the point where it becomes unusable for me - you can't do that. This is why I don't talk to you any more. 1 or 2 messages is OK. Bombarding someone with messages until they respond is not OK.

Sorry that had to be public, but you made that public.

oh my god this thread is getting locked

if the tables were turned it would have been ON like donkey kong in a major way for exactly the same reasons; ie this would still be a clusterfuck. I see no problem in raising it as an issue, because it IS an issue, and it would be for most ilxors.

the fact that it wasn't ever hashed out in private months ago is honestly beyond my comprehension. I will lay my cards on the table and say that I do consider Mordy a good friend. and that twitter was a bridge too far. IM is a kitchen. Twitter is a town hall.

HOWEVER the fact is that this whole thing has been handled terribly for a looooong time by the two involved parties and is almost completely the result of zero useful, mature communication so I have no idea where this ends.

or ilx goes under martial law or the UN sends in their blue dudes or what idk.

Yeah I think plenty of ppl have not at all hesitated to smash a few rounds of eggs over the years tbh. For whatever aim/result it had.

I freely admit that I’m an eggshell guy

I don't know that I've ever engaged directly because I typically avoid interacting with people who seem toxic and/or exhibit a poor understanding of boundaries. So I don't have a dog in this fight or any personal animus. But while I can't think of any one poster who was instrumental in driving away any other particular poster, I can definitely name one particular poster who was instrumental in driving away several posters (and nearly doing so with others), which, whatever positives the poster in question may have contributed to the board, strikes me as a net negative and a situation that I'm glad to finally see handled.

I geniunely dont have a dog in this fight but didn't someone say uptherad it is not kosher to be going on about someone who now has no right of reply? Maybe this isnt the coolest idea.

I agree

I missed a lot of this, things move fast.
This whole thing is sad. Colonel P, my main thought is that I hope you're ok.

I know I'm in the minority in this respect but Branwell did have a knack for explaining certain things in a way that spoke to me.
I am sure I have missed like 80% of all of the stuff described, so am obviously not in a place of having the full picture - I'm really sorry loads of people have been hurt here. I've been in the position of having the boot stuck in while I was feeling particularly low and it stayed with me for a long time and affected what I post.

One thing I'm not clear on though - we on ILX are all ok with people finding our social media accounts/names and posting them publicly, even if it ends up being temporary? I know a lot of you all know each other irl but I did think there was an unofficial line there on making these public?
xp Maybe this is for another thread then?

I do actually somewhat agree that its tough to have this outpouring kinder, yes.

It is maybe a function of a lot of individual frustration and bitten tongues over a long long period tho.

But on the last point, who posts what, where, publicly first is somewhat the key to untangling what's right and fair there

I think the answer to this is no, which is why said screenshot was removed

xp

I mean like, I mention ILX on facebook from time to time, but its innocuous stuff like reposting a funny Tep joke or saying "is ILX down atm?" or whatever.

kinder - we've actually just updated the FAQ in response to this. New text here:

What is the policy on posting personal information?
This is broadly unacceptable and mods will (generally) delete on sight/report, and may warn or ban users for doing so. The definition of "personal information" has a clear core -- it's anything that can identify an individual in ways they have not already volunteered in public on the site. That includes linking or identifying accounts on other sites (whether or not those accounts are anonymous/public), using legal names (when they're not the user's display name here) or posting real-world identifying information. There may be case-by-case exemptions, but in short: don't dox.

we on ILX are all ok with people finding our social media accounts/names and posting them publicly, even if it ends up being temporary

good point -- I think this was handled ok, in that the screenshot from B's twitter (which was public at the time for several posts that obviously referred to gyac) was swiftly deleted. Those posts (if still extant) are now private, which is B's right. I think there had been another post that had been public that gyac had seen, that in between gyac seeing it, and me clicking the link, had been made private. This incident, while also on twitter, wasn't the same as the one this thread was started about.

thanks emil.y - it was something I raised as I occasionally start worrying more about my online privacy.

There were a rash of ILXors who friended me on FB who I fairly quickly either hid my posts from or unfriended because I couldnt really trust shit not to get spewed elsewhere. I'm not saying they would or did, but the impression was left regardless (think ppl like Jon Willamz)

I deliberately didn’t link to their twitter as I assumed they’d do what they did, which was lock it, which they have every right to do.

This person had been tweeting about me for some time, since last September when we clashed over their behaviour. They have referred to me & other users a number of times in ways that would get them FPed by users on here if they actually said the things they said on their public feed here.

All I can say is that I was sick yesterday, received a nudge from an ilxor friend that they were doing this again, saw a series of posts of which some seemed to refer to me and some of which definitely did, and took screenshots. As soon as I mentioned that they had been tweeting about me, they then started pretending the series of what were clearly subtweets were directed at a film they were watching.

I’m not going to post the tweets or the link to the account again, but the content was derogatory of my mental health, referred to me as a “major abuser” and kept referring to my judgement of their actions as “fantasies”. I don’t think I was wrong, given Branwell was aware that I both have OCD (as they do) and that I have experienced abuse in my childhood, to find those comments sickening, so I kept the screenshots because they are the kind of person who will delete their tracks and deny and obfuscate when called out, and I didn’t want them to have that opportunity. There is something particularly awful about those kind of comments that are seemingly targeted at pressing a person’s buttons like that, but nothing this person could do to me could touch me in that way. My being able to handle it, however, doesn’t mean it was right or that anyone else should have to.

Nobody is obliged to think I acted appropriately, but I hope the above will at least provide some clarity. People can obviously FP me & the mods can ban me if they wish, I have no beef with that, because kinder has a point about feeling uncomfortable about that aspect of the thread, and she deserves to have it heard.

It is disengenous of them to go "WHY ARE YOU CREEPING ON MY TWITTER" when they are TWEETING ABOUT YOU, yeah thats just messed up.

I remember about 10 years ago there was something about other female ilxors (of which I assumed I was included) about being "ripped to the tits on SSRIs" ... and I was like, y'know, at that point I was pretty open about my mental health, but not that long before I was super "closeted" for professional reasons, and that was just like ... I think shortly after that incident the poster in question took a break from ilx, and I too took a break, and things seemed to get better for a while in terms of my personal interactions with B.

But when I saw those posts about gyac, (like basically c/p posts from these threads about her), I was immediately transported back to the "ripped to the tits on SSRI's" incident.

tbh i've always sort of assumed that all ilxors are ripped to the tits on SSRIs. i certainly am

absolutely crammed full to the bosom with citalopram

ILX is a regular SSRI filled Bosom Manor!

young, dumb, and full of zoloft

Taking sertraline for the team.

Push-up plunge & paxil

(speaking as the person who suggested the screenshot be deleted: I think it was fair in context that gyac post it to prove herself not a demented, fabricating liar in the face of claims that she was; just that once that had been shown, the shot was better removed.

((it's also fair for someone to vent on their own twitter about something completely vague and unidentifable to their followers. but BB was disingenuous about how this can still be taken by readers at the top of this thread, and outrageous in gaslighting about it yesterday. as noted in other strands of this discussion, simply saying "I'm sorry, I was venting to myself," would have been an alternative option, as would actually realising that the words could be hurtful and that fabricating a context put them in a worse light.)))

gyac - I think seeing as the user was trying to gaslight you then it was relevant to the issue at hand, and I certainly don't blame you for showing your receipts at that time. I wouldn't worry about having a ban sprung on you for it, but yeah, it did make the mods realise we don't have an official policy in place. And the better policy is always "no doxing".

(Another hand up here for the "ripped to the tits on SSRIS" crew, of course.)

Agree with sic but yes, if someone's venting with no names no pack drill on another forum, surely thats their own business right?

I wont get into the "muh private sanctuareeee" concept because its ridic on its face re twitter. Less so FB (you can lock posts to v specific audiences).

I just want to raise one open question

Taking things from peoples social media, or their personal info in general, to ilx is now covered in the faq and absolutely rightly so. We're a long running, intertwined social community and all vulnerable to an extent.

Is there a policy in place answering the question asked in this thread title?

And look, thanks to you and the mods because i think everyone knows that this part of the job is shit

xp im specifically referencing ilxors using other public social media to stir ilx shit in public, for the purposes of clarity- not harmless or malign references off board but just to be super clear i dont think that oblique but obvious references to ilx beef on other public media is actually kosher and while ilx mods cannot control that, we can have a policy in place about whether you get to use ilx while acting that way

There is a policy on the FAQ (which is here: ilxor.com/faq) but tbh it's quite old and I kind of disagree with it.

The current statement is this:

An ILX Poster is hassling me off-board! Do something about it!
"No." is the short but unfortunate answer here. The moderators totally disapprove of people being assholes off-board but our jurisdiction is the board: there really isn't anything we can do about it.

However, there have been cases of clear and deliberate harassment on the boards based on an off-line situation, and in those cases we've tried to act by discouraging or attempting to ban the people involved.

There have also been cases which are online feuds that spill over onto the boards, or where any 'harassment' is blatantly two-way -- if there is somebody you hate on ILX then we suggest for the sake of ILX as a whole and its overall tone that you resolve this off-board if possible.

It's pretty tough to police, but I do think we should be sterner about it than this. Especially when users blatantly distort narratives and slander other ilx0rs. I mean, obviously the policy is correct that we can't do anything about off-board situations, but I think it's pretty clear that we can listen to people who've been treated badly and not let their harassers back.

ty

That wording is so old it predates me, and I think referred to requests that expected mods to do something off-board - which obviously they can’t.

I agree it badly needs an update because posters doing that shouldn’t expect to not have consequences here, no.

All of this kind of makes me love this place even more; people actually care.

I mean, a good example is burrito, who did get FPd to a temp ban, but was permanently banned when it came out that he'd been emailing and zoom-bombing other users in a harassing way. That's a pretty straightforward case of off-board shit being banworthy (and even though I now say it was straightforward, there was still a fair amount of back-and-forth about it).

Having a vent on twitter, especially when you don't actually name names, is much harder to judge, and I think having a strict policy about this would be so difficult to enforce. But I do believe there's more we can do than just throw our hands up and say that it doesn't matter because it's not here.

xp to PBKR agreed, everyone's conduct here other than the ex-poster in question has been exemplary IMO

My conduct wasn't so good tbh, I feel pretty bad about blowing up like I did, especially because I was so angry I didn't even make much sense.

emil.y it's totally OK IMO, it was a completely understandable part of that particular discourse and I for one appreciated it and understood the post was made w/frustration

also, it was in defense of another poster

I think you've been great through al of this and I actually though abt messaging you on FB to tell u that

sorry 4 typos

Oh pish, emil.y, you're the absolute best of us. xps

It made perfect sense, emil.y. It needed to be said.

have to disagree with you there emil.y, really. sleeve otm. and everyone else xpish

the FAQ could probably use a caveat at the top noting how non-updated it is

(I know this has been suggested before, just mentioning while it’s being touched. mb date new entries too?)

Fancy a FAQ?

Ha, now I'm worried it looks like I was fishing for compliments/reassurances. Thanks, guys. I think it's fine to say that it was a pretty ludicrous blowout while still understanding where it came from and why.

the FAQ could probably use a caveat at the top noting how non-updated it is

Agree with this, yeah. Stet's been good at updating bits and pieces but as a whole it's still got a way to go.

Come on, my blow up was worse. I'm the one that was begging them to go away. I'm going to admit to posting a video about seagulls attacking on my FB as a way to quietly vent, but I don't think anyone made the connection.

xp I'm the rebel with the Wellbrutin and the crew neck.

What’s plausible deniability? I don’t know, I’m just a happy-go-lucky pixie of some sort.

is this an acceptable time to point out how funny this was

mayor mccheese of pixies

Mayor McPixie Cheese Girl

omg

Not to be a killjoy but since the issue has been resolved to the board's general satisfaction, maybe we can take advantage of this moment to stop talking about it outside of sprucing up the FAQ? It feels unnecessary and a bit inflammatory regardless of the circumstances to indulge in mocking (obliquely or otherwise) anyone who's not allowed to respond.