Also has anyone read U and I by Nick Baker?
― 57 7th (calstars), Saturday, 13 November 2004 14:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 13 November 2004 17:01 (nineteen years ago) link
"Rabbit, Run" is the book i have made most aborted attempts to read (beautiful sentences, yes) and the only other book of Updike's i have read is the beautiful "Self Consciousness" which is a (sort of) autobiography.
― jed_ (jed), Saturday, 13 November 2004 19:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― jed_ (jed), Saturday, 13 November 2004 19:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― David Elinsky (David Elinsky), Sunday, 14 November 2004 05:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― Remy (x Jeremy), Sunday, 14 November 2004 07:39 (nineteen years ago) link
What do people think of his actually writing the books 10 years apart for 40 years? What kind of confidence does it take to start a project this when you're, what was he, 25 years old? I'd like to know more about that actually, how much he had planned or envisioned what was to come for Rabbit.
Of the three Updike short stories I can immediately recall, I hated the one that appeared in the Atlantic about religion & 9/11, thought Should Wizard Hit Mommy? was mediocre, and really like The Walk With Elizanne. Probably because I was a band dork.
― W i l l (common_person), Monday, 15 November 2004 17:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― MikeyG (MikeyG), Monday, 15 November 2004 17:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― jed_ (jed), Monday, 15 November 2004 18:28 (nineteen years ago) link
I think it's a marvellously entertaining little book.
Updike was reputedly on The Simpsons the other night.
― the bellefox, Tuesday, 16 November 2004 18:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― 57 7th (calstars), Thursday, 18 November 2004 14:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― W i l l (common_person), Thursday, 18 November 2004 21:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― j c (j c), Friday, 19 November 2004 00:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― John (jdahlem), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― 57 7th (calstars), Thursday, 30 December 2004 19:19 (nineteen years ago) link
A few highlights come to mind: the last paragraph of Rabbit Redux has something along the lines of "In the air above them, all sorts of winged presences were making themselves felt." Magnificent.
There is a shortish short story called "The Brown Chest," I think it is in the collection called The Afterlife, that goes "the sweetish deep cedary smell, undiminished, cedar and camphor and paper and cloth, the smell of family, family without end."
My grudging affection for Updike resides more in these little bits of crystal-perfect language than in anything to do with the themes and plots and ideas.
That said, Roger's Version and The Centaur are undeniably good novels. Museums and Women is my favorite of his story collections, mostly because of the piece "Under the Microscope" which envisions a cocktail party attended by single-celled organisms.
His light verse is also quite delightful if you like that sort of thing. Here's one:
LAMENT, FOR COCOA
The scum has come.My cocoa's cold.The cup is numb,And I grow old.
It seems an ageSince from the potIt bubbled, beigeAnd boiling hot.
To hot to beToo quickly quaffedAccordingly,I found a draft
And in it placedThe boiling brewAnd took a tasteOf toast or two.
Alas, time flies,As oft time willMy cocoa liesDull brown and still
How wearisome! In likelihoodThe scum, once come,is come for good.
― The Mad Puffin (The Mad Puffin), Thursday, 13 January 2005 16:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 13 January 2005 16:50 (nineteen years ago) link
It's no surprise that I like him most when a gimmick takes him out of that milieu (like finding God with a computer in Roger's Version, having mythological characters run a high school in The Centaur, partying with amoebas in "Under the Microscope.")
Like I said, he can be quite infuriating and overblown but every once in a while he comes up with something so heartbreakingly beautiful that I forgive him (temporarily).
― The Mad Puffin (The Mad Puffin), Thursday, 13 January 2005 17:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 13 January 2005 17:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 13 January 2005 17:43 (nineteen years ago) link
Nasty!
― the bellefox, Thursday, 13 January 2005 17:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― David Elinsky (David Elinsky), Thursday, 13 January 2005 19:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― Steven Groth (fitch12), Friday, 14 January 2005 16:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Saturday, 15 January 2005 11:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― j c (j c), Sunday, 16 January 2005 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― W i l l (common_person), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 19:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 20:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― 57 7th (calstars), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 18:48 (nineteen years ago) link
― W i l l (common_person), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 22:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 22:42 (nineteen years ago) link
In general = in Updike, in literature, or in general general (i.e. a joke -- I have not spent much time with children while not a child myself so maybe I expect consistency where there shouldn't be) ?
although I'll have to consult my notes
A joke, then? Or you're a better reader than I.
― W i l l (common_person), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 23:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 23:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― the bellefox, Thursday, 20 January 2005 17:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 21 January 2005 15:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― W i l l (common_person), Saturday, 22 January 2005 00:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― 57 7th (calstars), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 00:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― 57 7th (calstars), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 00:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― 57 7th (calstars), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― W i l l (common_person), Friday, 28 January 2005 17:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― 57 7th (calstars), Monday, 4 April 2005 12:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― frankiemachine, Monday, 4 April 2005 15:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― frankiemachine, Monday, 4 April 2005 15:14 (nineteen years ago) link
But at the same time, Bech is not much of a character--more a conduit for Updike to express certain things about the writing life that would have been problematic for him to say with his own mouth.
By which I don't mean that Bech = Updike; rather that Updike used Bech both as a surrogate and as a point of contrast. He's Updike's mouthpiece when he needs him to be, but different enough (Jewish, hornier, less modest) to allow Updike a sort of playground.
― The Mad Puffin (The Mad Puffin), Monday, 4 April 2005 16:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― On the bass, 57 7th, he wrote this (calstars), Monday, 16 May 2005 12:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― David N (David N.), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 23:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― Luis Gonzalez, Thursday, 15 December 2005 22:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― Collardio Gelatinous (collardio), Tuesday, 20 December 2005 05:12 (eighteen years ago) link
From a French 12 years girl just arrived in a US school >>.thanks
― Margaux, Wednesday, 25 January 2006 22:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jaq (Jaq), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 22:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― tom west (thomp), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 23:42 (eighteen years ago) link
that was a fantastic piece, yeah. especially loved this: "he grows up, in short, but not into a real adult, just into a country club member."
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 5 October 2019 06:24 (four years ago) link
It’s almost as if she absorbed his novelistic style and used it against him and absorbed his critical style as well and used it to restore the balance, to give some semblance of fairness.
― Three Borads and the HOOS (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 5 October 2019 15:06 (four years ago) link
Which is awesome
I myself used could never pull off such a feat, I used way too many “ands” in that sentence, just to name one thing.
― Three Borads and the HOOS (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 5 October 2019 15:12 (four years ago) link
“If you were worried that somewhere in this sweeping tetralogy Rabbit wasn’t going to ejaculate all over a teenager and then compare the results to a napalmed child, you can rest easy.”
― calstars, Saturday, 5 October 2019 16:47 (four years ago) link
john downdog
― lag∞n, Saturday, 5 October 2019 16:49 (four years ago) link
Yeah nearly bought the Berlin book yesterday but ended up getting a Pavese reader
― plax (ico), Saturday, 5 October 2019 17:11 (four years ago) link
i've only read the first of the rabbit books -- tbh the descriptions and quotes from the later ones in that article sound horrific
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 5 October 2019 21:50 (four years ago) link
Redux is pretty terrible, a mess, but is Rich is his best book, I'd say.
― fetter, Monday, 7 October 2019 11:36 (four years ago) link
Probably the best in this genre of "young woman reviews old white man" that you see a lot of editors in various publications throwing up. Its both a waste of her energies and yet one of her best essays, possibly one of the best things Lockwood will ever write. Which could be depressing.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 21:04 (four years ago) link
I suspect editors don't really know what to do with her, she's clearly a very talented writer but does not really fit into post huffpo content genres very easily and sits awkwardly between cerebral and literal on one hand and "refreshing" and unpretentious on the other. Some of her poetry is terrible and her interests are so much about style and genre to the extent that when she turns to "real world issues" she can seem very half formed.
― plax (ico), Tuesday, 8 October 2019 21:33 (four years ago) link
Is priestdafdy a real memoir or part fiction ?
― calstars, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 23:05 (four years ago) link
piece is prob the best i've ever read on updike-- always liked the DFW one but it's v slight (+ the line lockwood quotes as its takeaway is iirc a footnote in the voice of a "female acquaintance"); the real previous champ was the vidal essay quoted towards the end, a long and largely biographical piece of character assassination i love to reread
Although Updike seems never to have had any major psychic or physical wound, he has endured all sorts of minor afflictions. In the chapter "At war with my skin," he tells us in great detail of the skin condition that sun and later medicine would clear up; for a long time, however, he was martyr to it as well as a slave to his mirror, all the while fretting about what "normal" people would make of him. As it proved, they don't seem to have paid much attention to an affliction that, finally, "had to do with self love, with finding myself acceptable ... the price high but not impossibly so; I must pay for being me." The price for preserving me certainly proved to be well worth it when, in 1955, he was rejected for military conscription, even though the empire was still bogged down in Korea and our forces were increased that year from 800,000 to three million--less Updike, who, although "it pains me to write these pages," confesses that he was "far from keen to devote two years to the national defense." He was later to experience considerable anguish when, almost alone among serious writers, he would support the Vietnam War on the ground that who am I "to second-guess a president?" One suspects that he envies the clear-skinned lads who so reluctantly fought for the land he so deeply loves.
he also says that in the beauty of the lilies would better be titled the evening dews and damps
anyway, a great long-running lil genre
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 23:53 (four years ago) link
I like the Gilbert Sorrentino takedown of him, but coterie writer of little distinction so not many have read it
― Beware of Mr. Blecch, er...what? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 9 October 2019 00:06 (four years ago) link
I assume Priestdaddy features some fictionalized elements but I also assume that some of the most ridiculous parts are true.
― JoeStork, Wednesday, 9 October 2019 00:08 (four years ago) link
sorrentino is a better and more important writer than updike
― the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Wednesday, 9 October 2019 01:33 (four years ago) link
idst
More discussion here: updike novels poll
― Beware of Mr. Blecch, er...what? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 9 October 2019 01:42 (four years ago) link
In the end Wallace loved the sinner, as Updike wanted us to love Rabbit Angstrom. And part of the problem with our 360-degree view of modern authors is knowing where to put any of it. Wallace’s vivisection of Updike’s misogyny seems calm and cool and virtuous, and then you remember that to the best of anyone’s knowledge Updike never tried to push a woman out of a moving car.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 9 October 2019 05:50 (four years ago) link
― plax (ico), Tuesday, 8 October 2019 bookmarkflaglink
I've yet to read anything beyond what she's written for the LRB (apart from her tweets) but I think it's working out well. iirc it began as writing on women -- her piece on Cusk was almost necessary because there's a lot of people that can't deal with her -- and the Updike is something else yet you can see the trajectory.
It's the LRB at 40 issue, and a good way to match to Empson on Skakey all the way back.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 9 October 2019 08:48 (four years ago) link
I think I'd still take Of the Farm, the first 3 Rabbit books and a few stories with me (wherever that may be). There's something about his rendering of moment-to-moment perception that I like (albeit he's no Nabokov, and Alfred's point about the 'complacency' of his descriptions is naggingly correct). Ach, maybe Lockwood is right and it was just sheer propulsion that dragged me along.
Will look up her memoir, for sure.
― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Saturday, 12 October 2019 15:30 (four years ago) link
Jesus - I'd pretty much expunged Skeeter from my mind. OK, I'll drop Redux.
― Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Saturday, 12 October 2019 15:35 (four years ago) link
I went to a used bookstore today and they had two of old rabbit hardcovers , some short story collections , and bech hardcover. Might go back and buy them out tomorrow
― calstars, Tuesday, 25 October 2022 14:35 (one year ago) link
The Rabbits diminish in quality over time IMO. There is some pretty fresh writing in the first 1.5, but by the end it gets dreary. And some VERY problematic race/sex shit appears.
Bech is a time capsule. If you're interested in literary life of that time period, the Bech stuff is illuminating. There are flashes of what JHU himself might have been feeling and experiencing, like signing flyleaf pages that will later be tipped in.* Bech's Jewishness is a red herring to throw you off the scent. Updike knew a lot about some things; I don't think Jewishness was one of those things.
Snag them if you want, but they are probably in a public library somewhere. I have read all of those books exactly once. Yes I probably own the hardcovers (currently in storage), but these days I mostly only buy books that I want to refer to or re-read.
― blissfully unawarewolf (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 15:10 (one year ago) link
* yes, I own a "signed first edition" Updike. Witches of Eastwick.
But it's not organic or rare or valuable - it was explicitly created as a "signed first edition," and marketed as such.
― blissfully unawarewolf (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 15:13 (one year ago) link
Sorry to be so ornery, because I do admire him as a stylist. On the short story collections: some of them are extremely good! Highly recommended: Museums and Women, Problems, and whichever one has "The Brown Chest" in it.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1992/05/the-brown-chest/667775/
― blissfully unawarewolf (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 15:18 (one year ago) link
Yeah they had the hardcover of museums…tempting. A time capsule for sure
― calstars, Tuesday, 25 October 2022 16:28 (one year ago) link
I was curious a few weeks back whether Updike (passing in 2009) had done any podcast interviews, and then enjoyed this two-part one from 2006 on Michael Silverblatt’s Bookworm.
― The self-titled drags (Eazy), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 16:37 (one year ago) link
Okay despite all the usual critiques of Updike, Museums and Women is fucking amazing. There's a hilarious and expertly crafted story about amoebae going to a cocktail party. One about Japanese Jesus. One about prehistoric animals. One about advances in farming technology.
In all his vast catalog there are only a few books that manage to escape his main subject matter (drab New England WASP adultery and its dreary complications). Museums and Women is by far the best of them. Grab it.
― blissfully unawarewolf (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 16:51 (one year ago) link
None of those premises sound appealing to me lol
― calstars, Tuesday, 25 October 2022 16:54 (one year ago) link
You’re saying the book is not about museums and women?
It's about women as museums.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 16:55 (one year ago) link
If you think a middle-aged suburban white guy wondering whether or not to cheat on his wife is an interesting premise, but a euglena going a cocktail party isn't, I just don't know what to tell you.
― blissfully unawarewolf (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 17:03 (one year ago) link
ftr I admire Updike's criticism: thanks to him, I discovered Henry Green and Muriel spark, among others. And he was generous toward Cheever. But I could never finish his fiction, not once. The facility, the complacency of the descriptions -- it had a lulling effect. He and Cheever get bound together, but Cheever was fuckin' weird.― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, October 3, 2019
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, October 3, 2019
― dow, Tuesday, 25 October 2022 17:44 (one year ago) link
"The Brown Chest" (lovely; thanks for the rec!) isn't The Afterlife.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 17:46 (one year ago) link
Lord Alfred: The last paragraph of "The Brown Chest" kills me every time. For all my crankitude about JHU, that "Family, family without end" passage is crystalline and pretty much perfect.
Bastard.
― blissfully unawarewolf (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 17:52 (one year ago) link
Is IN The Afterlife, a later story collection.
I liked that conclusion too.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 17:57 (one year ago) link
Yes! I am casting my memory back to The Afterlife, and another interesting story in that collection is "Aperto, Chiuso." It's a pretty thorny bit of misogyny that is paradoxically revealing.
The woman is being portrayed as irrational and hysterical. The guy is presenting himself as decent and well-intentioned and perplexed by her irrationality. But then on second thought, he's the viewpoint character so he's obviously sculpting the narrative; if you read it through 21st-century eyes you can see that he's actually being kind of a dick. Not sure if that's how Updike saw it but that's my current reading.
― blissfully unawarewolf (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 18:07 (one year ago) link
That's good that the story lets you do that: a strong. always pertinent POV, suitable for different interpretations.xp first gondolier first gondola, I meant! Proustian Slip, but also I was trying to suppress reference to Updike as my thoughtful gondolier on this maiden voyage through his review, because too corny even for me.
― dow, Tuesday, 25 October 2022 18:12 (one year ago) link
But even or especially with Pinter's crisp, startling reduction, there's a sense of gliding conveyed by Updike's impressions of his reading and thinking experience.
― dow, Tuesday, 25 October 2022 18:17 (one year ago) link
Carefully guided, responsive gliding.
― dow, Tuesday, 25 October 2022 18:18 (one year ago) link
Glide, Rabbit, Glide
― blissfully unawarewolf (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 18:19 (one year ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxkjvKBPQjo
― 2-4-6-8 Motor Away (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 18:25 (one year ago) link
I read RABBIT, RUN, and greatly admired its style, and was surprised and maybe even disturbed by its drama.
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 25 October 2022 21:01 (one year ago) link
I have a Henry Green book signed by John Updike. The man must have put his signature in everything.
― Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Friday, 28 October 2022 01:14 (one year ago) link
Reminds me of the time David Markson's library ended up at The Strand.
― Capital Radio Sweetheart (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 28 October 2022 01:26 (one year ago) link
A friend of mine brought a copy of Nicholson Baker’s U and I to a reading for Updike to sign.
― The self-titled drags (Eazy), Friday, 28 October 2022 04:04 (one year ago) link
I saw a film trailer today for something called Living which I was sure was a Henry Green adaptation. I want to believe.
― Capital Radio Sweetheart (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 28 October 2022 04:24 (one year ago) link
Apparently it's an Englishing of a Kurosawa movie.
― Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Friday, 28 October 2022 06:38 (one year ago) link
Oh right.
― Capital Radio Sweetheart (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 28 October 2022 06:38 (one year ago) link