Jaws

given that the orthodoxy is that this era was not that great after all (ie the death-knell of the 70s freedom = star wars), this is an interesting crux-point: is it true anyway (i mean, "he grew up on movies only = he was imbibing movies which had a HIDDEN proscenium arch imposed"? vs "loss of proscenium arch = death of cientmatic possibility"?)

The head in the boat bit still scares me even though when I watch it, I keep saying to myself "OK, the head's going to pop out any minute now. It's OK, you know what's going to happen. Any minute now, here it...HOLY FUCK!!!"

The day-for-night photography in Jaws is outrageous.

apropos of nothing, the Jaws Kitten:

http://blogs.citypages.com/food/sea%20kitten.jpg

http://gawker.com/5462300/david-brown-producer

A 35th anniversry defense:

http://philnugentexperience.blogspot.com/2010/07/tanks-for-memories.html

Pretty much agree with that: "in its way, Jaws was a political movie, maybe of the best kind--one that, without making speeches about it, embodies an attitude towards life and certain ever-present species of insanity in such an entertaining way that its message quietly seeps into the [consciousness]."

Also truly captured the beach in the same way The Bad News Bears captured ballparks and arcades, so was a summer movie in a literal sense. The naturalism of the sound before horror strikes is a thing of beauty. The score and camera techniques always serve the horror.

Also was a movie about a giant shark that eats people.

Jaws is the best. True story.

"Also was a movie about a giant shark that eats people."

the best reading of jaws.

Jaws is a perfectly realized movie and doesn't need defending. Anyone who lazily uses it to blame for the decline of movies should just jump off a cliff or something.

Yeah, Jaws is probably my favourite film.

haha, last post negates the one above!

It's about Spielberg's 6th- or 7th-best film.

Seriously? What's better?

Jaws always surprises people I make watch it for the first time by how great it is.

I'd rank them:

E.T.
Munich
Indiana Jones & The Temple of Doom
Jaws
Schindler's List

those 3 + Empire of the Sun, Close Encounters, perhaps War of the Worlds or Amistad

Amistad?

Amistad? Made for TV stuff.

Munich too, maybe.

No way are any of those, bar maybe Indiana Jones, better than Jaws.

I've always thought of Jaws as his best because I wouldn't change a thing, but the highs of E.T. are higher despite its more obvious flaws, at least before his crappy retouch. I wouldn't put anything else he's done in that class.

This film is rock solid. Opening few shark attacks are still so frightening.

I would rank CE3K as his best, largely for personal/sentimental reasons, but Morbius is pretty close to OTM here. Except "Duel" should really be on that list, and I don't care that it was literally made for TV.

I got no beef with made-for-tv stuff, duel kicks ass.

Jaws and Duel are pretty good thrillers, and much less interesting than the later prime stuff bcz he hadn't really grown up, and it shows.

anyway, I'm sure somebody in academia must've suggested by now that the failure of Capt Quint's machismo to save the day heralded the ascent of Jimmy Carter.

Much more interesting, because at that stage he was still making movies for adults. The bonding/scar scene in Jaws is as good as Spielberg ever got at 'grown up' men.

no.

You're right, I'm forgetting.....?

xp I like Jaws, but it would work better if it was about 20 minutes shorter. Most of my cuts would reduce Dreyfuss' screen time.

BTW I live with the Jaws Kitten shown upthread and he is far more frightening than this movie.

The Dreyfuss character is an important Spielberg surrogate/triumph of the nerds figure! In the book isn't he a stud who sleeps w/ the sheriff's wife?

"Scar" drinking scene is essentially extended-adolescent dick-measuring which is lampooned by the RD character.

You're right, I'm forgetting.....?

Tony Kushner's treatment of adult agony over the duties to family/nation?

In the book isn't he a stud who sleeps w/ the sheriff's wife?

Yeah, Dreyfuss's college boy is much better for the movie treatment.

Scar" drinking scene is essentially extended-adolescent dick-measuring

heeey, i did put 'grown up' in scare quotation marks, be fair.

spielberg has never made a better film than jaws ffs

you can read stephen heath's classic essay abt jaws here, kinda a high watermark of cambridge semiotic theory:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=22ab7E9K1TYC&pg=PA509&lpg=PA509&dq=stephen+heath+jaws&source=bl&ots=af5n1RZ-vY&sig=OqoAw3f3bogix6v70i27Arl0kYk&hl=en&ei=cws2TJ_KDJHu0gSblMHxAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=stephen%20heath%20jaws&f=false

Jeez... way to make it sound boring. WTG, Heath.

I was at a screening of Jaws last week--couldn't even count how many times I've seen it. The print wasn't great, but it still gets my vote as Spielberg's best. Flawless up till the three of them head out on the boat; some great moments the rest of the way (the bonding/scar scene, of course), although I did find it lagged a little in the last half-hour. I'm surprised no one mentions The Sugarland Express anymore, which for me is his second best. Couldn't disagree more with the contention that Spielberg "hadn't really grown up" when he made Jaws. To me, that's like saying the Beatles hadn't really grown up when they made "Eight Days a Week" and "Ticket to Ride." Or: I agree, and if Munich and Saving Private Ryan (or Abbey Road and Let It Be) are what happens when you grow up, then I'll take the adolescent.

The Bealtles made great adolescent music in that period, sort of the way the Jackson 5 made great children's music in '69-72.

E.T. and Empire of the Sun both more grown up than Jaws.

Whenever these threads descend into a rehash of the director's career we've had 500 times, WRITERS never get mentioned. ie, the writers he worked with/adapted in the later films were better than Carl Gottlieb etc.

I would totally stan for Empire of the Sun if John Williams hadn't ruined it

Good point about writers; I think it was Richard Corliss who wanted to completely reevaluate the same ground covered by Sarris's American Cinema in terms of writers. I'd be lying if I claimed to know anything about Spielberg's writers, other than that Peter Benchley wrote Jaws. But I did find Munich deadly dull, especially considering what an amazing subject it had to work with. I think the Spielberg of Jaws had far greater film instincts than the guy who made Munich (and would draw an almost exact parallel with the Scorsese of Mean Streets vs. the guy who made The Departed).

You really consider "I Want You Back" and "I'll Be There" children's music? I mean, I know it was a kid who sang those songs, but there sure were a lot of adults--then and now--who connected in a big way.

"children's music" does not preclude that.

Spielberg hasn't made a movie that successfully meets its intentions since the eighties, but there's no question his movies have been far more unusual, interesting, and challenging than they ever were. It's unbelievable that he created Catch Me If You Can, The Terminal, War of the Worlds, and Munich in a three-year span.

Did I wake up in some weird universe where Abbey Road is not almost universally considered one of the top 3, if not the best, Beatles album?

Catch Me If You Can, The Terminal, War of the Worlds, and Munich in a three-year span.

the only one I haven't seen of these is Munich and the rest are terrible!

The Terminal isn't very good, CMIYC is fine if overlong, and WOTW is three-quarters of a knockout.

Bizarre thing that crossed my mind last night (won't make sense unless you've seen the film and are also a big baseball fan): Hooper is a sabermetrician, Quint is a curmudgeonly old-school scout.

"What have you got here?"

"A laptop."

"A laptop? You enter data into the laptop? Data tells you whether the player’s good or not? You don’t have to actually see the player play? Our player? Farewell and adieu to you, fair Spanish ladies..."

Seen "Jaws" a hell of a lot, but we watched it as a family again last night. Imagine being Steven Spielberg and always knowing, somewhere in the back of your mind, that you were the one who made "Jaws." How cool is that.

Anyway, every time I've seen it I've noticed something else. This time I not only focused on how perfect every shot is as a storytelling device (the way each shot is framed to deliver vital information, and so on) but for the first time ever recognized that the reason Quint rides the engine into the red going back to the shore is not simply hubris and carelessness but because for the first time this tough guy is actually *scared*. The scene is preceded by him and Hooper (both shaken, now more or less peers of a sort) commenting ominously about how this shark is behaving differently from any shark they've ever seen. You can see Quint do the math, and that's when he floors it, muttering about luring the shark closer to shore, but you can tell he's desperate, almost as an excuse to get back himself. Of course they don't make it, and that's when Quint, formerly all macho bluster, turns to Hooper, as chastened as he'll ever be, and asks, just curious, that fancy poison you brought, do you maaaaybe think *that* will do the trick?

Still not entirely sure why Quint destroys the radio earlier. Macho, sure, or maybe out of frustration. Perhaps that's just his last chance to catch the shark on his own terms, because after that the tide (so to speak) really starts to turn against them.

We'd all seen the movie except my 12-year old, who thought it was OK though astutely recognized on her own that it's not *quite* a horror movie, because it's too much fun (adventure). Both kids kept commenting on how old everybody looked. Scheider was 43 and Lorraine Gray was I think around *38* but they both could have passed for (or been cast as!) much older parents if not grandparents today. And of course a lot of the other parents look really old too. The actress who played the mother of the boy who is eaten, Lee Fierro, was 46, about my age, but she looks like one of my mom's friends. I dunno, just another example of people looking old in the '70s, I guess.

Oh, another thing: never occurred to me that this is one of the rare movies that kills a kid *and* a dog, in the same scene!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/world/europe/coronavirus-britain-boris-johnson.html

LONDON — Prime Minister Boris Johnson of Britain once said his political hero was the mayor in the film “Jaws,” praising him for defying mass hysteria to keep the beaches open after a constituent is eaten by a shark.

Spielberg’s probably the best suspense director this side of Hitchcock, with how he takes time to build tension not just within individual scenes but throughout the whole film. Just by withholding and hinting. I think the whole “the shark looked terrible so they had to compensate” aspect is probably only a bit true in terms of the film’s effectiveness; the creativity he shows throughout is astonishing. His ability there is also what raises something like Raiders of the Lost Ark to something beyond what its storyline might suggest.

The mayor is someone who seems like a caricature but he’s not an asshole, just a denialist. Unlike other authority figures who are roadblocks he makes sense: he likes Brody but he’s also not native to the island so he thinks he knows better. He’s got one of my favorite lines in this too: “we caught and killed a large predator that supposedly injured some bathers.”

I always like how the mayor drives his entourage onto the ferry just to nag Brody, then when they reach the other side, he tells the ferry guy "OK, you can go back now," and you can see the ferry guy just shake his head in annoyance.

Re: withholding and hinting, it's quite striking how quickly everything starts happening. First shark attack happens literally 4 minutes in. But the second one, with the kid, is around minute 17. That one is one of the most frightening shots of the shark, just this blur coming into focus below the water that pulls him under. And then, from a distance, you just see this mass of splashing, thrashing and indistinct fins.

There's also the horrifying moment when they bring Hooper back to see the body, and they basically bring out a small drawer.

I've probably said this before, but I saw or read something once about the famous dolly/zoom shot of Brady during the second attack that pointed out how Hitchcock required x amount of days and x amount of dollars for a similar shot (more than one I think) in Vertigo, and Spielberg just tosses it out there nonchalantly. (Yes, I realize Hitchcock got there first, and that Spielberg's got a 17-year technological advantage.)

http://nofilmschool.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_wide/public/jaws-jaws-jaws.jpg?itok=eYNM5jBw

At the same time, this by today's standards modest movie took significantly longer to shoot than, say, Black Panther, which shows how many problems they had.

See, that shot is a great example of what we were talking about. Scheider there is a movie star, professionally lit and made up. He's two years younger than I am now, but he looks at least 10 years older than me and my friends.

You should read this--thought I posted about it in this thread, but I guess not.

http://i.harperapps.com/covers/9780062229281/x300.jpg

That looks awesome!

Weird to think vertigo was only 17 years old when jaws was released

I feel like there's a Woody Allen joke there somewhere.

That book was pretty good, thanks for the recommendation. Interesting that they even released a contemporaneous account. Usually these sorts of books only appear after a movie flops, a la The Devil's Candy or Final Cut.

Watched this with the family tonight — my wife and kids had never seen it and I hadn’t in years — and everybody was super tense the whole time. This Spielberg kid has potential.

never lets me down, i will never not love this movie

I think Jaws is a stealthy Holocaust movie but I can’t really explain, y/n?

n

n

Nah I’m right sorry

Stevie Spiels wishing for east coast WASPs to have a holocaust of their own, to spread empathic understanding without polemic?

idk

reloadTime=1666569600035

now you're doing that shit when the url doesn't even show in the thread?

Watched this again last night. They truly don't make em like they used to. I swear Quint's demise goes on longer and grislier every time; the edit from the shark crunching down and him spitting up blood is proper filmmaking.

Scheider is vv good here, funny, smartly ahead of the game, flawed in his being pressured into second guessing, but heroic despite his deep fear, and a great example of a lead character who is also an audience surrogate.

Really like how the Williams score will periodically turn thrilling and glorious when they're chasing down the shark, echoing the overconfidence of the hunting party.

I find it p funny (not a detriment to the film btw) that the Mayor gets shook enough to hire Quint after that fella in the rowboat gets feasted on off in the side pond, but the kid turning into a blood fountain in full view of hundreds of beachgoers has him all, "now let's not be hasty here."

There's a screening at a rep theatre here in a few weeks, Friday night @ 9:30; hope it's as jam-packed as can be.

Hold up, apparently there is an imminent Broadway production about the making of the movie, called "The Shark is Broken"? Starring Robert Shaw's son as Chief Brody?

I think that's played London before

For maximum insanity, a musical I can only hope.

Couldn't make a Friday night screening--about 100 people I was told--but saw this at a rep tonight. The promise of "35mm print" is losing its allure: this one wasn't great.

Besides all the stuff it's actually famous for, I'd rank this as one of funniest films of the '70s. There are at least a half-dozen moments I'd point to to support that.

Not sure if I knew this or not, but I noticed Michael Chapman served as camera operator, a year before he shot Taxi Driver. (Reading up, he did the same on The Godfather.

Zen poetry:

A cloud
in the shape
of a killer shark

[1]I find it p funny (not a detriment to the film btw) that the Mayor gets shook enough to hire Quint after that fella in the rowboat gets feasted on off in the side pond, but the kid turning into a blood fountain in full view of hundreds of beachgoers has him all, "now let's not be hasty here."[/1]

Wasn't it because his own son was in the side pool? Or something like that.

king of the formatting

It's partly that, but the big difference is that after the kid, they think they they've caught the shark; the guy in the rowboat confirms Hooper's contention that they've caught a shark, not the shark.

I wonder if Spielberg had to fight the studio to kill the kid (and presumably remain faithful to the novel)? A lot of blood for a kid dying on screen.

I think when I sort of meant to say was clearly the mayor is deeply shaken and guilt-ridden after the boater is killed, but doesn't seem too guilt-ridden about pushing to keep the beaches open earlier, which leads to the kid being killed. I don't think it's a story flaw or anything, I was going to say that Brody taking all of the blame willingly when the kid's mom confronts him feels a bit off, but in thinking about it he definitely took that blame because he certainly didn't push back hard enough on the mayor, and later he certainly gives the mayor the disrespectful, shoving him around treatment he deserves when making him sign the contract with quint.

This movie has more blood than John Wick 4.

Was curious if either Brody kid had ever gone on to do anything--Jaws is literally the only screen credit for both of them. (They really young kid is so great when he mimics Scheider at the dinner table.) Also, the TV guy who delivers the "A cloud in the shape of a killer shark" line is Peter Benchley!

"The," not "They"

One more: in the IMDB full cast credits, Spielberg is listed as "Amity Point Lifestation Worker (voice)." Will have to listen carefully for that next time. (If there is one...I think I've reached my limit.)

the older Brody kid passed away pretty young, a heart attack. late thirties iirc.

My mother took me on my 10th birthday to see this film during its first run. It still holds up extremely well, thanks mostly to the script and the acting--and the shark's not working for most of the shots.