Pazz & Jop 1985: Critical Hindsight Two Decades On

now that I'm a bonafide middle-aged parent I can see Little Creatures is more like bohemians passing 30, but same diff.

I think Lovebug is putting it best here. At best I am savagely indifferent to Graceland, a song or two aside. And I used to own THAT as well, so my annoyance is not simply based on fans and marketing, thank you very much. (I seriously think Talking Heads are easily the most overrated band of the last thirty years. [Last fifty -- the Stones, of course.])

R&B was below most rock critics' radar creens in 1985. Thinking back, I must've chosen "Hanging On A String (Contemplating)" by Loose Ends and "Nightshift' by Commodores as top singles. Otherwise, drawing a blank. I can't check my reference books right now and determine whether 1985 was a good year overall for R&B. The fact that I need to look it up might not be a good sign.

1985 was kind of a hangover year after 1984. Look that year up.

This should help you out:

http://rockmetonight.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_rockmetonight_archive.html

Dancing In The Key Of Life Steve Arrington

was definitely on my Top Ten and my turntable in 1985

Debarge's "Rhythm of the Night" was great! And The Night I Fell In Love. And Jeffry Osborne and (sigh) Whitney Houston. Guess it was a pretty good year, coming off a halfdecade of great ones.

I loved Meat is Murder (still my favorite Smiths album, my only favorite Smiths album really). I remember seeing some favorable reviews of the Smiths at around this time, but it was mostly a word of mouth/heard them played in clubs type of thing for me.

Kinda makes me wonder about Christgau's annual cries of the institutional racisim in Pazz & Jop.

Can someone give me a bit of perspective here: in the alt-y circles I ran in around this time, people listened to New Order and the Cure but the Smiths didn't seem to break until Louder Than Bombs. (And we're talking provincial US). Is this how it really was, or is this just a weird local idiosyncracy?

-- mitya doesn't need no stinkin' password (mity...), January 18th, 2006 12:02 AM.

From the East Coast perspective, Meat Is Murder was The Smiths' breakthrough, courtesy of "How Soon Is Now."

Christgau put Sonic Youth's "I Killed Christgau With My Big Fucking Dick" on his singles list, but that was likely more revenge-motivated than content-motivated seeing as how he appended the parenthetical "And Now It Don't Work No More."

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/deans85.php

The Rate Your Music poll is much more on-point than the Pazz & Jop, both from a hindsight perspective and from an at-the-time perspective.

# of P&J top 10 albums I purchased in 1985: 3
# of RYM top 10 albums I purchased in 1985: 6

The RYM top 40 is a lot more eclectic than the P&J, which is indicative of critics' groupthink tendencies, especially when it comes to end of year lists. I'd much rather get stuck on a desert island with the RYM list than P&J's, if only to get the goodies by Foetus, Einsturzende, The Fall, and Butthole Surfers.

Other juicy '85 obscurities:
Killing Joke - Night Time
Black Flag - In My Head
Live Skull - Bringing Home The Bait
Slovenly - After the Original Style
Big Black - Racer X ('84?)
Swans - Raping A Slave ('84?)
Drunks With Guns first 7"
Schooly D - PSK What Does It Mean? 12"
9353 - We Are Absolutely Sure There Is No God

I remember liking the title and then finding the actual album very blah.

their first show in new york was THE show to see. i'm still mad that i couldn't go. my friends went :(

Psychocandy: I remember liking the title and then finding the actual album very blah.

some things change, some stay the same...

I know what you mean Scott, I was in college from '79 to 83 and got into all kinds of exciting stuff. I think I first contributed to P & J in 83 or 84. Yea, after I sent the Voice a copy of my zine Thrillseeker and complained in the letters to the editor one year about the lack of votes for the Fall's 'Hex Enduction Hour' (I think?) I got added.

8. Husker Du - New Day Rising
6. Husker Du - Flip Your Wig
40. The Minutemen - 3-Way Tie (for Last)
36. Professor Longhair - Rock 'n' Roll Gumbo
23. Meat Puppets - Up on the Sun
12. The Velvet Underground - VU
25. The Jesus and Mary Chain - Psychocandy
1. Talking Heads - Little Creatures
16. Bob Dylan - Biograph

Ones that meant a lot to me as the '80s went on:

37. LL Cool J - Radio [my first CD]
2. The Replacements - Tim
32. Run-D.M.C. - King of Rock
11. Sam Cooke - Live at the Harlem Square Club, 1963

"I Wonder If I Take You Home" Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam
"Set it Off" Strafe

1985 was also the year of ROXANNE: UTFO's "Roxanne, Roxanne" and its answer records including Ms Shante's immortal "Roxanne's Revenge"

Damn, I seem to be losing control of my grammar this week.

making lists and keeping track of dates etc was always my least favorite part of the critics game. wouldn't want to see my orignal ballots now cause I'd always do em at the last minute and include some current enthusiasms that looked ridiculous a few months later.

it'd be intersting to see veterans like frank & xhuxk rate the last 25 years in order of musical preference. I subscribe to the "great year" theory, believing that certain years are pivotal in terms of quality and influence, esp in regard to chart pop, like say 1984 and 1988 and 1992...somewhere around 1998 I stopped giving a shit tho.

Ah, thanks. Of course, this was back in the good old days of the American underground, where an album could be released and you might not hear/see it for 1-2 years. Nowadays Lady Sovereign passes gas and it's up on a thousand blogs in a forthnight...

But 1999 was absolutely one of the best ever! How could a fan of "Roxanne's Revenge" not like "Nann Nigga"?

I voted Metallica's "Whiskey in the Jar" number one and proceeded to get into complex arguments with Andrew Palmer, who considered it far inferior to the Thin Lizzy version. If I were to vote all over, "...Baby One More Time" would be my number one (I somehow managed not to vote for it at all, even though I loved it; further proof it was such an amazing year). I also somehow didn't include "Back That Azz Up," maybe because I didn't yet own it, though I'd heard it on the radio enough. Anyway, tremendous year: Mannie Fresh turning into Schubert, Swizz Beatz simultaneously at his most popular and most extreme ("What Ya Want," "Down Bottom"), Max Martin delirious and gorgeous, Christina and Beyoncé and Pink spreading their wings (and Blaque better than any of them), Trina opening her trap, Natacha Atlas finally putting together a consistently good album, Arling & Cameron cracking me up, Europop novelties charting in the U.S. and cracking me up ("Mambo No. 5"), my relationship with my girlfriend cracking up (er, that wasn't so good)... well, anyway, the crests of a whole bunch of waves.

Uh, really easily?

[Taterhead]
I'm saying though
What you got a playa back there just trying to say what's up

[Trina talking]
Hell no
I don't wanna holla at him
That's alright

[Trick Daddy talking]
Hold up bitch
Hold up bitch
Hold up hoe
Check it out

[Trick Daddy]
Hoe you don't know nann nigga uh-uh
That'll represent like me
Who'll say some shit like me
One who'll lay the dick like me
Bitch you don't know nann nigga uh-uh
Who do the shit that I do
Run through yo whole lil' crew
Pay for it if I got to
Hoe you don't know nann nigga uh-uh
That'll run off in yo house
Put the gun off in yo mouth
Blow yo motherfucking brains out
Bitch you don't know nann nigga uh-uh
Who'll fall off in the club
Free drinks for the show some love
Take the bar home for the thugs
Bitch you don't know nann nigga uh-uh
Who know mo' niggas than me
Who do mo' killings than me
And weigh mo' dope dealings than me
Bitch you don't know nann nigga uh-uh
Bitch you don't know nann nigga uh-uh
You don't know nann nigga
That dress fresher than me
And you don't know nann nigga that wear mo' Polo shit than me
Bitch you don't know nann nigga uh-uh
Who do mo' freaky stuff
Eat the coochie wit the legs up
Then I blow it all in yo butt
And I don't know nann hoe uh-uh
Who liked the dick like you
Who'll bite the dick like you
On a dikey bitch like you
And I don't like a bitch like you
I'll fight a bitch like you
Ol' trifling bitch like you
Ain't no telling what you might do
Bitch you don't know nann nigga uh-uh
Hoe you don't know nann nigga uh-uh

[Trina talkin]
Uh-Uh-Uh
Hold up who the fuck this nigga think he is
I ain't ashamed of nothing I do
Hold up check this shit out

[Trina]
You don't know nann hoe uh-uh
Don' been the places I been
Who can spend the grands that I spend
Fuck bout 5 or 6 best friends
And you don't know nann hoe uh-uh
That's off the chain like me
That'll floss the thang like me
On a awful thang like me
You don't know nann hoe uh-uh
That sell more ass than me
You know nann hoe
That'll make you cum like me
Nigga you don't know nann hoe uh-uh
That don' tried all types of shit
Who quick to deep throat the dick
And let another bitch straight lick the clit
Now you don't know nann hoe uh-uh
That'll keep it wet like me
Make it come back to back like me
Lick a nigga nut sack like me
Now you don't know nann hoe uh-uh
That'll ride the dick on the dime
Who love to fuck all the time
One who's pussy fatter than mine
Bitch you don't know nann hoe

[Trick Daddy]
Hold up baby hold up
What you said you'll do bitch
[Trina]
Nigga you heard what I motherfucking said
[Trick Daddy]
Well baby if you gon' be doin' all this
You need to be on my team
Cuz I'm the realest nigga you motherfucking know
[Trina]
Well if you want me you know how to find me
Taterhead got the number
[Trick Daddy]
Tater boy bet they help Tater boy
Ha ha ha hah

[Trick Daddy]
Bitch you know nann nigga
That keep it knocked like me
That keep it hot like me
One who'll chop the chops like me
Bitch you know nann nigga
Wit connections wit the mob
Money millions for stars
And the Lexus flexin hard
Bitch you know nanna nigga
Who representin they grill
In Miami is where I live
And this is how I pay my bills
I love livin here
It be straight thuggin livin here
And all my thug niggas here
We be ballin'up in here
Bitch you know nann nigga
Bitch you know nann nigga
No no bitch you know nann nigga
Oh you know nann nigga
Bitch you know nann nigga
Bitch you know nann nigga
No no bitch you know nann nigga

thought about listening to current hits yesterday but rain makes me think jazz so I played Donald Byrd, Freddie Hubbard, Eddie Harris.

If anyone owns a copy of Unsophisticated Time by Marti Jones and would be willing to burn me a copy (it is comepletly out of print), I would be greatful, plus I won a lot of oop stuff myself, so I would happily trade.

The results don't impress, eh?

The singles are better.