when did IDM become to dance what undie is to hip hop?

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Ronan no rush just kidding around a bit, really ;-)

Can I add that maybe what worries me is that, well, the thing that always got be about rock was, at its worst, bad rock criticism seems to think that any schmuck playing a guitar is automatically more real, intelligent, authentic, etc., than anybody playing anything else (ie worst folk artist better than best rapper), and I worry that IDM/indieelectronic could repeat that scenario, simply replacing the guitar for laptop... and I think a lot of this has to do with being in America, where the scene is small and vulnerable and could easily fall prey... of course, maybe I am just feeling paranoid this morning ;-)

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 14:12 (twenty years ago) link

I mean, superchunk is just a pop-rock band until the rhetoric is added...

But even Chuck Berry, or the Blackhearts, had a rhetoric, even though maybe it's faded and hard to remember now. Folk singers in the 50s and 60s had one too, among other things in their implicit rejection of the things Chuck Berry could use to make you move. But rhetoric isn't added, like you'd add milk to coffee, it might have been what made them form the band in the first place. I don't see anything wrong with having a rhetoric.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 14:30 (twenty years ago) link

what i meant about microhouse being a move away from dance music is that,while i know you can dance to it,in my experience people don't that much,it is played in the morning when there's not many people dancing,or often mixed with stuff that's towards the glitch end of things...
i think a lot of the time people listen to it not as dance music (and this is people who do like dance music)but in the same way you'd listen to glitch or idm-sitting around,with possibly a few people dancing
again a generalisation,but it certainly doesn't seem to be "used" as dance music as much as techno or house

― robin (robin), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 14:38 (twenty years ago) link

rhetoric = probbly a better word for the various things the word "influence" is usually used at

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 14:39 (twenty years ago) link

I guess "snobbery" isn't everyone's non-dairy creamer. But I've got no beef with "tribalism" "or quest for obscure knowledge" necessarily. Though actually, experimentalist microhorse is more anti-tribalist than, as Tim says, most other dance music from the past 7 years, in that it doesn't pummel its genre identifiers into the ground, set its boundaries, or work exclusively within itself. (There is a boutique aspect to a lot of these releases from BPitch and Kompakt and Italic, their album art and the intimate kinds of sounds you hear on the records speaks a kind of luxurious hand-polished language. I'm not so into that rhetoric but a lot of people get off on that.)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 14:50 (twenty years ago) link

Tracer is right in his original critique, and maybe I should rephrase... when I figure out what I meant ;-).. but I know I was thinking more of criticism and not the beliefs or intentions of the band, which really are very seperate... I mean, whatever we may think of the White Stripes' music, we can probably agree that there is a certain disconnect between the band and what they doa dn how they are received. the band, well, they put lots and lots of effort into cultivating an very specific image, and many seem to buy it as "authentic"... I think maybe this really revolves around the question of "does making a certain specific artistic choice automatically indict that or those which you did not chose?" What I mean to say is that making undanceable electronic music can either be intrinsically an anti-dance statement, or it could just be music with rhetoric added later, I guess. Does that make sense?

I mean, is art creation or filtration? Does it gain its power from what is made, or from what is left out?

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 14:52 (twenty years ago) link

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