scenesterism...

It's always disappointing when people who 'should know better' come out with rubbish.

hey that's not my *good* name, it's not even my 2nd-best name.

I have met allot of cleversquirts who dress the part and take the apothecary and dance about like tiny voodoo explosions but when it came down to it THEY DONT EVEN CARE ABOUT MUSIC. NOt that I care. Just an observation. It takes all kinds.

Scenes make for shit music. Bands "supporting each other" = big circle jerk, mutual admiration society.

I've already spoken enough on this subject to fill several hard drives by this point, but will continue to try to explain my POV.

Most people who are absolutely negatively *against* scenes and scenesterism turn out to be those who have some negative experience with "a scene" and they end up blaming that Scene and the Scenesters for their lack of social and musical acceptance, and their greater problems with music, aesthetics, the world, blah blah blah, etc.

Yes, I could probably be included in that number. ;-) (this is probably why I found it most bizarre, bewildering, and ultimately very funny that I should be termed a "Scenester" by some persons on this board, when I've spent most of my life being excluded by "Scenes".)

Those who are actually part of the "Scenes" we desipse are generally so concerned with their own social status, or loss thereof, that they would never dare to criticise the organisation. So there you go.

I don't think Scenes, or by extension any community or large social group, is good or evil in and of itself.

I've brought it up before, how and why scenes can be a good thing- if a community supports and encourages its members (not neccessarily the aforementioned self congratulatory circle jerk- honest criticism from one's peers is probably one of the most valuable things an artist can have) and is welcoming and *inclusionary* to newcomers, then it is a good thing.

However, as many have noted, large numbers of people often give way to crowd mentality, groupthink, and the abdication of personal responsibility and free will. If a community becomes that "circle jerk", suppresses free expression, and uses its "scenehood" to *exclude* newcomers, and in fact, starts defining itself in negative terms about what it is not- then clearly it's not fit for man nor beast, and especially not artists.

In one of those weird contradictions, community works best when it is run by those who are strong enough to hold their own opinions and have a sense of self worth by themselves.

But this is getting to be less and less about music, and more about sociology, so I'll back off.

no negative experience...just boring that's all. .. . dilutes the rock and roll for me.

from watching various threads which have been developing over the past few days, an observation...

ty, you don't like discussion of music. you don't like intellectualisation of music. you don't like scenes or scenesters. you apparently don't even like communities.

considering that this is a community of people discussing and intellectualising music, may i ask what it is that you are doing here?

...because I don't like it. Lapsed catholic maschoist, I am...

Occassionally someone starts an interesting conversation and I like to follow it. It depends, when there is true dissent, or even a devil's advocate in a conversation its' more interesting and people are more passionate.

I guess....

*shrugs shoulders*

Would it help if I said that I thought the Hives were a punk rock explosion?

I love music!