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welcome to the cultural revolution (aka what the FUCK is wrong with the florida legislature?)

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Here's a quote that a good number of equally legitimate fellow citizens would hold:


"Christianity is not a series of truths in the plural, but rather truth spelled with a capital 'T.' Truth about total reality, not just about religious things. Biblical Christianity is Truth concerning total reality - and the intellectual holding of the total Truth and then living in the light of that Truth" Francis Schaeffer's Address at University of Notre Dame, April 1981

― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 24 March 2005 23:59 (nineteen years ago) link

well, again, if you have access to the TRUTH, why do you need an education?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

(this has dick to do w.much o'consequence but whatever bandwagon t.eagleton is currently hoppin on shd be regarded w.grave suspicion: he has a genius nose for the "next big thing" but the only thing he gives a fuck abt is t.eagleton's grading in the foodchain)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:01 (nineteen years ago) link

I mean, already knowing everything pre-empts any need for engaging in academia.

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:02 (nineteen years ago) link

to learn about that Truth you have access to

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:02 (nineteen years ago) link

in other words - to reinforce what you already know. That is not the purpose of education, in fact that is the ANTITHESIS education.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:04 (nineteen years ago) link

"of education" sorry.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Nobody already knows it

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:05 (nineteen years ago) link

you're talking in circles. are you familiar with the term "tautology"?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:05 (nineteen years ago) link

you were repeating what I wasn't saying.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:07 (nineteen years ago) link

You aren't saying much of anything.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:08 (nineteen years ago) link

So it is hard to talk about truth with a capital 'T.' Therefore professors naturally slide into the position of talking about other truth, so maybe the government could do something about it, but it's hard for them to do anything about it.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:10 (nineteen years ago) link

A. Nairn you're asking for an education that presupposes an established "truth" and proceeds to reveal nuances and details within that truth while never contradicting or deviating from it. (correct me if I'm wrong - please use actual words and syntax, thanks) In other words, an education that provides no basis for dealing with external or contradictory evidence. now who's being the totalitarian dictator?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:11 (nineteen years ago) link

isn't a.nairn saying "once we discover everything that's true, the sum total of this knowledge will turn out to be the true xtianity"?

(maybe not but i think this is standard thomist catholicism) (if so it's not anti-science or anti-rationalism or anti-education, and it IS kinda circular but not in a way that's difft from the programme of education as we already understand it)

("you attacked reason," said father brown. "it's bad theology.")

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:11 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, that's what I believe

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:13 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't get why anything a professor could or would say would challenge that belief though?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:14 (nineteen years ago) link

And also that man can never discover everything. It's just my perspective towards learning that's different than the standard.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:14 (nineteen years ago) link

they challenge that perspective not the results from it.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:15 (nineteen years ago) link

what's wrong with that?

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:16 (nineteen years ago) link

what "results"?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:16 (nineteen years ago) link

not challenge, but some professors persecute.

The results of seeking Truth.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:18 (nineteen years ago) link

you speak in nonsensical aphorisms. no wonder your professors hate you.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:19 (nineteen years ago) link

my bad professors had me, my good ones like me.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Hahaha how do they persecute? By pointing out that there is no logical, scientific basis for your beliefs?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Had you?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:20 (nineteen years ago) link

had = hate

(I'm typing quickly because this is a fast moving thread)

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:20 (nineteen years ago) link

define 'persecute' plz

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:20 (nineteen years ago) link

and then plz explain why this (assuming persecute = challenge, which a dime sez it does) is bad

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:21 (nineteen years ago) link

what the article at top talks about.

saying: ‘Evolution is a fact. I don’t want to hear about Intelligent Design (a creationist theory), and if you don’t like it, there’s the door,’”

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:22 (nineteen years ago) link

I think we established at the beginning of this thread that "persecution" = presentation of contradictory evidence.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:22 (nineteen years ago) link

nobody says evolution is a FACT - it's a THEORY - ie, its a model which explains the evidence.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Apparently pointing out that CREATIONISM has little place in an EVOLUTION class (the same way ISLAM might have little place in a class on CHRISTIANITY) apparently = persecution in A Nairn's world.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:23 (nineteen years ago) link

no challenging one's beliefs is the best thing at moving towards Truth.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:23 (nineteen years ago) link

plz stop persecuting me and answer my questions plz nairn

― j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:23 (nineteen years ago) link

crap:

no, challenging one's beliefs is the best thing at moving towards Truth.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Hahaha but your BELIEF precludes CHALLENGE. It's the TRUTH remember!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:25 (nineteen years ago) link

and really, there is no logical argument that disproves the existence of evolution as a method of development. It is readily apparent all over the world in bazillion different environments in circumstances -both digital and biological (viruses, insects, the fossil record, etc.) National Geographic recently argued this very cogently.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:25 (nineteen years ago) link

BELIEF precludes CHALLENGE. It's the TRUTH remember!

yes, but I am human and don't know the Truth.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Only God knows the Truth and only he can reveal it to a human.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:27 (nineteen years ago) link

that is the Christian point of view

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:27 (nineteen years ago) link

then again - WHY ARE YOU GETTING AN EDUCATION? just wait around for GOD to tell you everything.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:28 (nineteen years ago) link

gravity is also just a "theory." if you see whether the fact that it is "just a theory" has consequences, go to the top of the empire state building and take a flying leap!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:28 (nineteen years ago) link

well you could argue that the local professional deformations inevitable in any discipline - eg where a professor has got his job by declaring he agrees w.the orthodoxy (when this is actually wrong but no one knows it yet) - dclashes w.the thomist view

but it's a VERY abstract analysis, bcz it insists on the existence of a "true knowledge" which possibly only god is aware of, which current human knowledge has deviated from: by "being christians", believers in the abstract align themselves with the true knowledge (bcz xtianity is defined BY DEFN as "true knowledge") though actually in reality none of them are necessarily AWARE of how current human knowledge is deivating in any particular, just a formal concept of how it PEROBABLY MIGHT BE (cz humans are usually wrong, unlike god)

the zizek-eagleton "concrete universal" isn't very difft from this idea (unsurprisingly, as both of em are catholics i think) (eagleton is: zizek i'm not so sure abt)

(i think it's a completely unnecessary add-on, as regards thinking abt thinking, but i don't consider "relativism" a problem: wrestling fact from the power politics of life is as hard now as it wz yesterday, 100 yearsd ago, or a thousand yearws ago)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:28 (nineteen years ago) link

"WANT to see," i meant

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:29 (nineteen years ago) link

God can bring someone closer to Truth through an education.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:29 (nineteen years ago) link

that is the Christian point of view

That is a Christian point of view. There is a long Xtian tradition of science deduced from observing God's creation.

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Well I am sure God knows in his heart of hearts that Intelligent Design is bullshit, otherwise he might have actually put some evidence for it in the Bible. Something like "And then God decided to create monkeys and have them slowly evolve into man. And then God invented the BLT." But he didn't so you are fucked.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:29 (nineteen years ago) link

God can bring someone closer to Truth through an education.

then why are so many bible-bangers such uneducated ignoramuses?!?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:30 (nineteen years ago) link

"God can bring someone closer to Truth through an education."

Not in Alabama. Believe me.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 25 March 2005 00:31 (nineteen years ago) link

"There is a long Xtian tradition of science deduced from observing God's creation"

something I have infinitely more respect for than A Nairn's nonsensically circular bullshit.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 25 March 2005 00:32 (nineteen years ago) link

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