How Important Was Grunge As A Musical Movement?

-- Josh Love (heaveninrowboat...), August 29th, 2004.

dude, you had me until that last sentence...;-)

The Killers' Brandon Flowers has blamed Nirvana and Kurt Cobain for making rock music depressing. Despite the seminal grunge frontman dying almost 15 years ago to the day (he took his life on April 5, 1994), Flowers lambasted Cobain. "I don't mean it in a bad way but I think Kurt Cobain and grunge took the fun out of rock and roll," he said. However, Flowers says that he thinks his band is now making American music "a lot more playful and brighter" (Daily Star/NME).

sort of funny, i really have no knowledge of the original "grunge" bands -- Mudhoney, Green River, early Soundgarden, Melvins, etc. Any of it worth my time? I mean, I generally don't like Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains and their ilk.

Any of it worth my time?

Yeah: Nirvana. Nirvana >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other grunge band.

the grifters are fucking great. don't know if they really count as 'grunge' but there's certainly some similarities.

People like Melvins, too.

I dunno I'd say the Melvins are better than any of 'em, Nirvana included (I can't listen to Nirvana anymore). The first couple Mudhoney albums are fun but totally juvenile, I would recommend them if you are between the ages of 12 and 21.

sort of funny, i really have no knowledge of the original "grunge" bands -- Mudhoney, Green River, early Soundgarden, Melvins, etc. Any of it worth my time?

Yes, and none of it sounds like Pearl Jam , Alice In Chains(who were both great) or the post-grunge bands (who weren't)

The first couple Mudhoney albums are fun but totally juvenile, I would recommend them if you are between the ages of 12 and 21.

fuck that, im 36 and still listen to Mudhoney.
Funnily enough they are a band who make better cohesive albums in the last 10 years than they did back then.
Melvins last 2 albums have been awesome too.

dude you NEED Superfuzzbigmuff by Mudhoney...it doesn't really sound like "grunge" how you probably think, more like super mean rabid garage rock

heh, yeah I've heard Nirvana ... would probably like Mudhoney, I like the stuff I've heard anyway -- Stooges-y stomping stuff? dunno, I think the main problem I have with most so-called grunge is the vocals. Just a lot of bad singing going on there.

coffin break was pretty rad, but i dunno if they were totally grunge

the deluxe reissue of superfuzzbigmuff is essential.

However, Flowers says that he thinks his band is now making American music "a lot more playful and brighter"

delusions of etc

I've been googling Killers lyrics to refute Branden Flowers lies.

i honestly can't listen to nirvana with anything approaching perspective. i don't think i really like them but it's just colored by way too many other things to tell.

I like the stuff I've heard anyway -- Stooges-y stomping stuff? dunno, I think the main problem I have with most so-called grunge is the vocals. Just a lot of bad singing going on there.

I got off the bus after their major label debut but yeah Stooges are the main reference point and I've always liked Mark Arm's voice. He doesn't do the ass-clenched warbling Eddie Vedder thing.

ha yeah, the ass-clenched warbling Eddie Vedder thing -- that's the big problem. I can remember hearing Pearl Jam when I was a kid and thinking "man i just don't relate to that at all!" obviously some people did/do.

I really liked Eddie Vedders voice, but when all those other bands took the template I can see why it became annoying, but when PJ first hit the singing style was something fresh to many people.

I always hated it

I was just listening to the royal trux's pound for pound a few mins ago

every listen to it

argh I meant to type everyone listen to it

Melvins Live >>>>>>>> Melvins on record >>> Mudhoney > Nirvana >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other band that got called grunge

while we're on the grunge kick, i never, ever, ever understood why Neil Young got the "godfather of grunge" tag. Are there any grunge bands that actually sound like Neil Young? Even remotely? I know he toured with a lot of them (saw STP open for him in 1993, lol) and did the record with pearl jam but i'll be danged if i hear much Neil Young in those bands. was it just the flannel?

not just flannel, but also volume and sloppiness being used as virtues. but I think it was largely an association thing.

yeah there aren't very many clear similarities (unless we bring Dinosaur Jr into the picture, but they predate grunge "movement" by a bit)

Plus Ragged Glory came out around then and Sonic Youth opened for him and he was in vogue and got name dropped a lot.

right -- i guess there was a period pre-nirvana where grunge could mean dino jr and sonic youth. though honestly, "grunge" seems like the best term to describe Dino Jr, moreso than a lot of grunge bands.

Actually pre-Nirvana grunge just meant 7 or 8 Seattle area bands. It never meant Sonic Youth and Dinosaur unless journos were being lax.

Agree that it's easy to imagine "grunge" referring to Dinosaur though. Mascis just seems kind of grungy.

Vedder and his ilk are so fun to sing along to loudly with your friends. "eeeewaa flerrrrr, come arwahr like feeeevin flaaaaawwrrr".

Mascis' vocal whine also kinda similar to Neil

oh yeah totally -- dino jr and neil comparisons are valid!

and re: lazy journos calling non-grunge bands grunge, seems like there was maybe a lot of this in the UK?

Late 80s at WRCT, we used the adjective "grungy" a lot to describe Touch & Go type stuff, and eventually early Sub Pop. Killdozer, Drunks with Guns, Volcano Suns even. Don't remember it being pegged as a genre until after the NME thing in 1989 about Seattle.

and re: lazy journos calling non-grunge bands grunge, seems like there was maybe a lot of this in the UK?

yeah dinosaur jr, sebadoh,belly, sugar, helmet, babes in toyland even the lemonheads got called grunge.

yeah i feel like i read some old article from the UK referring to "American grunge group Galaxie 500" ...

dino jr kinda was grunge though IMO

yea i agree

i guess there was a period pre-nirvana where grunge could mean dino jr and sonic youth

SY and Dino Jr. had legitimate ties to the grunge scene...not the least of these being Nirvana themselves, who opened for Sonic Youth before they broke big...meanwhile J Masics was a serious contender to replace Chad Channing before they settled on Dave Grohl...

also SY's split 7" with Green River, and Dino Jr.'s whole Dio-meets-the-Cure (w/ special guest, you guessed it, Neil Young) aesthetic...

Don't remember it being pegged as a genre until after the NME thing in 1989 about Seattle.

WTF? Grunge was hyped in the NME???

that's the first place it was hyped! wasn't sub pop's whole marketing plan designed to sell a regional scene to the UK?

J Masics was a serious contender to replace Chad Channing before they settled on Dave Grohl...

I'm surprised that Masics -- who was a fairly big indie-star at the time, I'd guess -- would try to join Nirvana, which hadn't yet broken big (since Grohl was the drummer on Nevermind).

i'd heard that bit about mascis/nirvana too -- who knows how serious J was about that though?