A new list to rip to shreds: Maxim's 30 Worst Albums of all Time.

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~~headache~~ smile

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:35 (twenty years ago) link

(not directed at you Matos my flower)

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:35 (twenty years ago) link

yes matos and certainly as a critic you can testify it is talked about enough currently and interestingly given its status as the most popular music on earth, and especially not overshadowed by the same twenty or so music crit touchstone classic rock albums

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:37 (twenty years ago) link

I'm glad amateurist is here to define 'real' good taste against insouciant punks like chuck eddy and trife who listen to hip-hop and pop just to give 'honest' (look it up in your dictionary amateurist) people headaches.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:38 (twenty years ago) link

trife - but noone listens to hip-hop (or ace of base) unless they're trying to give amateurist a headache!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:39 (twenty years ago) link

or at least they don't actually think it's good

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:39 (twenty years ago) link

and here we were thinking geir had left us

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:39 (twenty years ago) link

Whew! The dicks are swinging in here today!

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:40 (twenty years ago) link

Someone buy Blount a a Boeing and send Darni3ll3 the bill!

― Cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:42 (twenty years ago) link

i feel like i've occupied a suite in the tower of babel. i've never said anything about disliking hip hop or pop, nor have i ever impugned sterling's or chuck eddy's sincerity in liking this music.

my headaches come precisely from this confusion, from trife's fondness for the red herring, and for blount's eagerness in scarfing said herring up.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:42 (twenty years ago) link

trife, give us a break on this "no one talks about it at ALL" shit, it is talked about a lot, however stupidly (which means a lot of it is) but for Christ's sake you're getting all wound up about a FUCKING JOKE LIST PUBLISHED THREE YEARS AGO IN MAXIM!!!!

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:43 (twenty years ago) link

who's invoking the caps lock matos?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:43 (twenty years ago) link

look amateurist i dont like you either but i dont piss and moan about you posting in every thread you post to, id be glad to ignore you for real!! just stop pulling out the bitchy 'oh its TRIFE again' groans anytime i say anything, and stop telling people theyre only pretending to like music too ok!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:43 (twenty years ago) link

and trife, I'm hardly defending Amateurist, I'm making fun of YOU for riding the SAME FUCKING HOBBYHORSE over and over again. it's just as tiresome as Amst's.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:44 (twenty years ago) link

amateurist - you've never impugned sterling or chuck eddy's sincerity in liking this music?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:44 (twenty years ago) link

(quietly to matos: what is my hobbyhorse? i'm not even sure what i'm being accused of on this thread.)

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:45 (twenty years ago) link

can you show me three posts you written directed at chuck where you don't impugn the sincerity of his taste?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:45 (twenty years ago) link

Dub-Metal vs. Olde Timey Bicycles

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:46 (twenty years ago) link

i never said no one talks about hiphop but considering how much i would want to read difft perspectives and stuff about it i think its underrepresented which is especially a shame on ilm since it has such a high concentration of writers i like a lot (matos youre one of them!!!) maxim has very little to do with it though i was really offended by the biggie thing since thats one of my fav records and usually maxim likes biggie!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:46 (twenty years ago) link

blount: no. not at all. it's the manner in which they celebrate it that irks me!

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:46 (twenty years ago) link

I heard ya: you're hobbyhorse is thinking those who don't line up precisely with the norm (as defined by you) are doing it as a fit of insouciant bucking, boyish puckishness, fronting fronting fronting (look that one up too)(maybe not in the OED though)

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:47 (twenty years ago) link

what - specific word choice? show me three posts where you criticise their word choice and not the "stance" itself

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:48 (twenty years ago) link

What's with the snipe-fest? (a) Alex always does that, he's practically an "I'm rubber you're glue" type, and he knows it's funny and sometimes it actually is. (b) Jockiness now has pretensions to sophistication and irony, it's impossible to ignore. (c) Hip-hop is internationally powerful in a huge way but it's a mighty stretch to call it "the most popular music on Earth," at least if you actually count the bits of the Earth where all the people live. (d) Am I the only one who read what Amateurist actually said about Eddy? I don't know enough about Eddy to agree or disagree with it, and I think he might just come across the way Amateurist thinks he does on ILM more so than in his work, but in any case I'm not sure he said what some people are saying he said.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:48 (twenty years ago) link

cuz, no offense, but if you're still saying you've never impugned the sincerity of their tastes then you're more full of shit than you accuse them of being.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:49 (twenty years ago) link

crazy x-posts. i can't prove a negative blount!

i like most of the music sterling and eddy are talking about. well, much of it. i can see 1,000 reasons why they might like it. it's just that it *seems* (perhaps simply to my own paranoid eyes) that they sometimes fail to extricate their like for the music from their desire to make a statement about the value of disposable/etc. Pop Music also that their critiques need to adopt a jocular quality. It strikes me as unduly defensive. but i totally buy that they like the music!

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:49 (twenty years ago) link

amateurist ive asked you this a couple times already but can you really not see the fun in playing with what people think critics will normally say, if you like something that happens to fall outside the crit consensus (and most people do) using your power as a music critic to hoist it against that consensus is a really interesting and joyous way to write about it!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:50 (twenty years ago) link

like, what 'approved' reasons do you have for liking music that are more worthy than chuck or sterlings??

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:51 (twenty years ago) link

I'm not asking you to prove a negative - I'm asking you to show me three posts you've written directed at chuck eddy where you don't impugn the sincerity of his taste.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:52 (twenty years ago) link

if they do what you say they do, which i think is hardly the case usually though i havent read chuck

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:52 (twenty years ago) link

aaahhh! xpost mania 2003!

trife, i hear you, but i still think you're jumping way ahead of things here. talking about how hip-hop is getting fucked over by the usual-suspects classic-rock records seems backwards considering the source of this thread.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:52 (twenty years ago) link

trife: except that railing against a perceived consensus can be a distraction... one can become the shadow of what one is opposing.

and i think chuck denies anyhow that he's doing any railing really so i'm not sure you and him are on the same page. and he may be right, i may be judging his body of work on the evidence of a small and uncharacteristic sample thereof.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:53 (twenty years ago) link

You know all this is stored here fr eternity, right?

― Cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:54 (twenty years ago) link

I mean, I can show you three posts I written directed at you where I don't ask you to show me three posts you've written directed at chuck eddy where you don't impugn the sincerity of his taste, so I don't see why it's so difficult, especially if you've never done it. If you've never done it just show me three posts you written directed at chuck eddy. how bout this - show me three where you don't use the word 'schtick'.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:54 (twenty years ago) link

ilm too in compulsive listmaking and the idea that there is 'bad' music,

i seem to remember someone telling me I listen to 'shitty' hip hop. Hmmm, who was that?

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:55 (twenty years ago) link

james as i do not feel that i have ever questioned the sincerity of mr eddy's opinions you can look at any random two posts from me. also i'm confident there are several posts above in which i do not use the word "shtick."

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:56 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, that idea doesn't wash at all--of course there's bad music, what that bad music happens to be depends on who's doing the defining

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:56 (twenty years ago) link

matos if you mean maxim their top choice was picked because it performs sacrilegious covers on the 'perfect' beatles catalogue!! maxim jocks the rolling stones --> clash --> nu garage stance as much as mojo or whatever!! maybe its good because it keeps hiphop from being boring mojo style 'history', nothings worse than 'classic' hiphop crit ie public enemy rakim bdp run dmc etc but i want obsessive track-by-tracks of harlem world still!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:57 (twenty years ago) link

matos - I think trife has a point, in that he notes this list resembles every other rockcrit list, and takes issue with one of the characteristics of said lists ie. a certain degree of, what's the word, "rockism" (don't bother amateurist, it's not in the OED), and that in 2000 (not to mention 2003) this sorta tendency is increasingly indefensible.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:58 (twenty years ago) link

Wow. Take some time off to go do some grocery shopping and this thread takes off! Huzzah! I meant no real disrespect to Nabisco, by the way.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:58 (twenty years ago) link

trife, that's not Sgt Peppers by the Beatles, that's the soundtrack from the movie the Bee-Gees made.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:59 (twenty years ago) link

show me where to look amateurist - cuz I aint' finding nothing but your usual (bippity boppity boo) schtick

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:59 (twenty years ago) link

oops - he knows that

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:59 (twenty years ago) link

also david allen even though youve obv never read maxim do you hate beer and women?!!?!
-- trife (...), July 8th, 2003.

When I went to summer camp, my father sent me Maxim every single week. I still have no clue why, probably to make sure that 4 weeks of being in a small cabin in the middle of nowhere with 10 other guys wouldn't make me gay. So yeah, the stupid "YOU DON'T KNOW ME" style defense doesn't quite fit.

― David Allen, Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:00 (twenty years ago) link

hence "check their very uncool beatles dicksuck hating on the sgt peppers soundtrack and ono box!!"

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:00 (twenty years ago) link

never mind me, i can't read

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:00 (twenty years ago) link

the bad music thing was worded wrong, i think writing about 'bad' music or 'worst' albums is only interesting if its something youve engaged in, ie oops im sorry but i love hiphop and ive tried a lot of 'weird' def jux kool keith etc and it sounds really bad to me, the maxim list wouldve been better with more self-hating alt rock/oasis and less streisand/yanni/tesh

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:00 (twenty years ago) link

the thing with these lists is they never actually have the balls to go after anyone who they might need to return their phone calls

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:02 (twenty years ago) link

and dont tell me ilm isnt the arcanists version of maxims 'quality' music taste guide!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:02 (twenty years ago) link

I mean - ooh, they dissed Yoko Ono - better whatcha back Maxim!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:03 (twenty years ago) link

yeah for real, like the world has really been waiting for someone to stick it to ricky martin!! hes gone critically unscathed for TOO LONG!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:04 (twenty years ago) link

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